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Tips For Contrail Photography  
User currently offlineAlexEU From Serbia, joined Oct 2007, 1819 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8713 times:

I use 4x optical zoom, so my contrail photography sucks. I can't identify a/c.

-Which optical zoom do you use?
-Do you shoot on automatical or manual?
-How do you identify airline and aircraft?

Any other tips are welcome.

Regards

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6840 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8705 times:

Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):
-Which optical zoom do you use?

Not a compact.... 400mm lens or 300mm+2x converter on EOS300D


MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Andy kennaugh




MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Andy kennaugh




MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Andy kennaugh


Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):
-Do you shoot on automatical or manual?

Usually aperture and compensation. Set aperture to F8.

Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):

-How do you identify airline and aircraft?

Photos usually good enough to ID airline and type. Online for actual aircraft...

groups.google.com/group/mantma2

fairly regular posts as planes go over manchester, otherwise other posts with log of day's passings.

[Edited 2008-01-12 08:48:28]


wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineWhisperjet From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 571 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8705 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Hi,

I think 4x optical zoom is just not enough to identify aircrafts as they are just too small in the pictures.
Sometimes, depending on the weather and the cruise altitude of the aircraft it is possible to read the registration (at least partly) on the bottom side of the wing which makes identification really easy.

If it's not possible to recognize the registration there are other hints to identify the aircraft/airline. The most obvious ones are the number of engines (of course) and the shape of the fuselage and the wings. But there are also smaller things like winglets (especially to distinguish between the different 737 and 747 series), visible tires (737) and many others.

In general it is very helpful to use the database for identification. If you have a clue about the model of aircraft you can try to find out the airline comparing the small, visible parts of the livery (colour of the engines etc) to pictures in the database.

Stefan



Nobody is perfect - not even a perfect fool.
User currently offlineKlintrepid From United States of America, joined May 2005, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8633 times:

I have a 50-500mm lens with a 1.4x converter that equals 700mm (over 10x I think) That is still not enough to read regs.
I shoot at f6.3-f8 depending on the light. I try to use ISO 100 but it usually ends up being ISO 200+



~its a JEEP thang~
User currently offlineHangarRat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 633 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8617 times:

I have a manual focus 300mm f2.8 with a 2x teleconverter that would give me an equivalent of 900 mm with my D200, but I haven't tried it yet.

Any thoughts on how hard it would be to focus that rig? What sort of tripod set up could I use?



Spell check is a false dog
User currently offlineAlexEU From Serbia, joined Oct 2007, 1819 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8493 times:

Thanks for replies,

Do you move your camera when you take a pic of contrail a/c? what exposure?


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6840 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8457 times:



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 5):
Do you move your camera when you take a pic of contrail a/c?

Yes; follow the aircraft.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 5):
what exposure?



for this one 1/640 F8 400mm -0.67 200ISO

The photos of ZK-OKG and HB-JMB (in my first post) were both at

1/1250 F8 400mm -0.67 200ISO

On a sunny day, exposures of 1/800 or 1/1000 should be easy to get.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlinePaulinbna From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8451 times:
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You have to very lucky out of about 1000 attempts I have about one that made it in the data base.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robbins - Nashville Aviation Photographers



This was shot at 400MM.



Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8434 times:

Frosty mornings, when the air is clear and the low sun illuminates the bottom of the aircraft, are best.


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineThierryD From Luxembourg, joined Dec 2005, 2077 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8427 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):

-Which optical zoom do you use?
-Do you shoot on automatical or manual?
-How do you identify airline and aircraft?

- 18-200mm optical zoom lens
- semi-automatic
- by registration / livery


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thierry Deutsch
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thierry Deutsch


 

Thierry

[Edited 2008-01-22 05:07:32]


"Go ahead...make my day"
User currently offlineFergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8412 times:



Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):
Which optical zoom do you use?

The big fella at the back with a x2 TC and the 1Dn

Big version: Width: 682 Height: 1024 File size: 633kb


I also use a tripod with the Manfrotto ball head, my arm gets a bit tired holding that weight up.

When using the 500/4 with the x2TC gives me an f8 but I will still try stop down a bit more to f11 or so, depending on light, to improve the quality.

Take care

Fergul  sun 



Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6896 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8370 times:



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 1):
Set aperture to F8.

Why?


User currently offlineJawed From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 482 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8367 times:

How To Find Sweet-spot F-number For Lens (by Jawed Dec 29 2007 in Aviation Photography)?threadid=295205

Quoting Timz (Reply 11):

Why?



User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6896 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8357 times:

f/8 might be a good rule if VR/IS can be taken for granted. (Or maybe not.) But if by chance the photographer is trying to shoot contrails handheld without VR/IS, he'd probably do better to concern himself more with shutter speed than with using the f-stop that would be sharpest with the camera on a tripod.

User currently offlineGPHOTO From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 831 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8337 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):
-How do you identify airline and aircraft?

You could try something like the SBS-1.

http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk/

Best regards,

Jim



Erm, is this thing on?
User currently offlineJid From Barbados, joined Dec 2004, 975 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8332 times:

I use 350mm no IS and use similar setting to shooting anything else. I will us a mono pod though when I have been on the beer the night before!
In processing I will use edge sharpening as you don't want to add any noise into the sky.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jid Webb



For ID I do as Jim says above an use an SBS unit, making sure that the clock in my camera is correct, then you can add comment to your shot like..

Quote:
Routing New York to Dubai flight UAE202 positioned over the top of the MCT VOR. Bearing 100 degrees - 39,000ft - 580Kts.

There are also OTT groups on yahoo and google etc where reg data can be obtained.
Jid

[Edited 2008-01-23 00:00:14]

[Edited 2008-01-23 00:01:27]


G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6840 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8315 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 11):
Set aperture to F8.
Why?

From experience with my 400mm lens, F5.6 just isn't good enough and F11 means a too slow shutter.

Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 14):
You could try something like the SBS-1.

If such devices are allowed in Serbia.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4880 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8309 times:



Quoting Klintrepid (Reply 3):
I have a 50-500mm lens with a 1.4x converter that equals 700mm (over 10x I think) That is still not enough to read regs.
I shoot at f6.3-f8 depending on the light. I try to use ISO 100 but it usually ends up being ISO 200+

That's the Sigma 50-500? I think it's more to do with the fact it doesn't seem to be as sharp as a prime lens. Comparing it against my 300mm Nikkor, the Nikkor seems much sharper.


User currently offlineKlintrepid From United States of America, joined May 2005, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8284 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 17):
That's the Sigma 50-500? I think it's more to do with the fact it doesn't seem to be as sharp as a prime lens. Comparing it against my 300mm Nikkor, the Nikkor seems much sharper.

Yes it is not as sharp as a prime. But its still not close enough. (it a combination of soft/not enough reach)
Here I will post some examples so you can decide...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/klintrepid/IMG_9322.jpg

(crop)


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/klintrepid/IMG_9264.jpg

(sorry I don't have 100% crops right now)



~its a JEEP thang~
User currently offlineDvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1746 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8278 times:
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The 50-500 has two major flaws at 500mm - heavy light falloff (vignetting) and minor softness due largely to camera shake. Even the smallest vibrations are felt in the image quality.

I've tried to do contrails with it before but my timing with them hasn't been all that great; has less to do with lens quality.



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlineSulman From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2037 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 8235 times:

Is that last image on a full frame sensor? The vignetting is noticeable. I've been tempted to save up for a 50-500 as it seems like a great mid-range lens that would give me that extra reach during Airshow season (having a 70-200 with a 1.4tc gets pretty limiting for smaller aircraft) it's also very reasonably priced. The big seller for me is that a few people use it here and they always seem to get great results with it.


J



It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4880 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 8232 times:

Have a look around on some of the major photography stores in the used sections, you can pick up some quite decent lenses at great prices. Just keep searching.

I have the 50-500 Sigma, and while it can be useful as a one lens does nearly everything solution, as mentioned above, the slightest, tiniest shake at 500mm and your image is ruined. Wind also provides a challenge with it. It also drops back to F6.3 very quickly.

I think a prime lens with a TC is a better solution for quality, but it doesn't have as much flexibility. If you want to zoom out, you "walk out".


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5724 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 8226 times:
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Quoting Cpd (Reply 21):
Wind also provides a challenge with it

Found that as well, but as much Aviation photography(not all as some would like us to think) is facing away from the light, taking the lens hood works a treat.

CPD, from the location of your profile pics I can make an educated guess where you are bases(surprised I haven't seen you, I tend to notice other Bigma users) it can be breezy there and taking the lens hood off a useful strategy... remember to face camera away from the spray though between shots.

Back to topic.. contrail shots with the Bigma can be tricky due to camera shake and softness at the long end, reading regos.... never worked for me! But then few of the AC transiting SYD at high level have regos where you can see them anyway

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineGPHOTO From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 831 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8211 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 16):
Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 14):
You could try something like the SBS-1.

If such devices are allowed in Serbia.

That's a good point. Would be worth anyone checking with Kinetic before parting with any money!



Best regards,

Jim



Erm, is this thing on?
User currently offlineKlintrepid From United States of America, joined May 2005, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 8184 times:



Quoting Sulman (Reply 20):
Is that last image on a full frame sensor?

These were taken with a 350D at 700mm hand-held, thats right hand-held!  Smile
Hence the reason they don't look so good.

I have no problem with the bigma at 500mm and camera shake. (hand held)
(But everybody is different)



~its a JEEP thang~
25 Post contains images Cpd : I don't venture out that often - when I'm not taking photos of planes in spare time, I'm a flight-sim developer. Unfortunately, I'm not a regular phot
26 Jonzofon : I know this is a bit off topic, but if you don't have an SLR camera is there any hope it will be accepted by Airliners.net?
27 Fly747 : Not a chance. Ivan
28 Post contains images Jetmatt777 : I'm no expert at Contrail Photography, but from the sounds of things, it's hard enough to get one accepted with a DSLR, much less a point and shoot.
29 Klintrepid : You would not have AF with that combination. You might be able to do the "tape the pins" trick, but the AF is very bad. (hunts and not accurate)
30 Post contains links and images Jetmatt777 : Didn't even bother uploading to A.net on this shot, way too many issues, You can get decent results with 300MM, but now where good enough for A.net, t
31 Oly720man : I think it's because the AF relies on contrast in the image and I think it's just too dark when the (equivalent) aperture is too small (with a conver
32 Post contains images Fergulmcc : Quite simply not enough light getting though for the AF system to work effectively and probably because Canon have built into the camera system to di
33 Post contains images Dvincent : Of course me and my Minolta buddies have been able to AF down to f/8 since the first Maxxum AF 7000 in the 80s...
34 Post contains links HangarRat : Here's the lens for contrail photography: http://www.canonfd.com/mirrorlenses/pages/page10.html
35 Post contains images Fly747 : Should be fun to handhold Ivan
36 Post contains links HangarRat : It comes with a mount, not unlike an antiaircraft gun: http://www.canonfd.com/mirrorlenses/pages/page09.html
37 Fly747 : Yea, that was supposed to be a joke, how would you handhold 220lbs/100kg? Ivan
38 Post contains images HangarRat : Yeah, I got that. I just think the mount, with attached seat, is impressive.
39 Post contains links Ilpavone2004 : Hello to all! I'm a contrail spotter and i just wanted to say that to get good images doing this hobby you need a telescope. Possibly a really big tel
40 Post contains images Oly720man : I'm impressed. My limit is my old Tamron 500mm mirror lens and 2x converter which (at 800ASA) produces the likes of EK205 A6-ERH over Manchester last
41 Ilpavone2004 : Well just think that with your tamron at first you have a lens diameter of about 100mm (not more i think) and then the focal lenght is 1000mm. With a
42 Oly720man : Yes, it's the big hole at the front that seems to be the most important. Following a plane with my lens combination isn't especially easy, trying to
43 Ilpavone2004 : Well when you buy a dobson telescope, it is sold with a dobson mount that permit easily to follow the aircraft. For sure the first time or times it'l
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