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Review Only - New Terms Of Use  
User currently offlineFlyheligirl From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 352 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Dear All,

As you know, the old Terms of Use and Privacy Policy is currently in effect. We have rolled back our initial release of the new Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We would like to incorporate photographer and user feedback before re-releasing the new Terms of Use and Privacy Policy on Airliners.net. We have worked very closely with the crew to bring you the best Terms of Use and Privacy Policy possible and ensure that all copyrights to your photos remain with the photographer. We understand that there may still be questions and/or feedback and we want a chance to answer all your questions. Your input in this process is very important to us.


Terms of Use key facts:

1. You as the photographer/copyright holder retain ownership of the submitted picture, and only grant a limited license to Airliners.net so that other members of the community may view and enjoy your photograph. You may remove your photograph from Airliners.net and terminate your license to us at any time by sending us an email.

2. Your picture will undergo a screening process. We will try to notify everyone who submits a picture of the outcome of the screening process by email.

3. If your picture is accepted to be displayed at Airliners.net, Airliners.net may modify your picture for the following limited purposes only:

a) for technical purposes such as compressing the submitted JPG file or converting it to another format such as TIF;
b) adding a copyright bar to your picture;
c) adding a watermark in accordance with your stated preferences. Airliners.net reserves the right not to display the watermark to some users at our own discretion.

4. Your picture can be displayed in one or many of the site's sections, either in thumbnail, mid-or full size version. It can also be linked to by other websites. For more details, please view photo linking at http://www.airliners.net/ownsearch/.

5. If your picture is not accepted, we will endeavor to send you an email explanation. If you think your picture was incorrectly screened, please feel free to use our appeal function as detailed in the same email. It is our intention to notify you the result of the appeal by email as well. The result of the appeal is final."


Please read the REVIEW ONLY version of the Terms of Use by clicking www.airliners.net/reviewtermsofuse/.


The comment period will be open for seven days, starting on 2/21/2008 and ending on 2/28/2008. We will answer questions and if needed, amend the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy before we re-release at the beginning of March. We truly value your opinions and want to ensure you feel protected and confident uploading to Airliners.net. Please don't hesitate to ask any questions, the crew and Demand Media will both be fielding as many questions as needed to ensure that our community feels 100% comfortable uploading now and in the future.

I truly apologize for how this was initially released. We simply were inexperienced and didn't take the right steps to making sure we rolled out the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy correctly. There was never any ill intentions in our method and we hope this process of integrating and fielding your questions is a step in the right direction. We understand that trust is earned and we ask for your understanding, help and patience moving forward. The photographers and users make this site what it is and we have every intention of protecting the rights of our community.


Respectfully,

Airliners.net Management and Crew

136 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5869 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6300 times:

much better...now I can upload with confidence.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineLennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6223 times:



Quote:
Airliners.net reserves the right not to display the watermark to some users at our own discretion.

Please give practical examples of that 'discretion'..

Otherwise, this Mark II version is welcome.

Gerry


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

I posted this in the Site Related thread, but I feel it should be in here too.

I still have a major problem with these TOU as pertains to the Photos, and this is where I have the problem:

Quote:

1. When you post User Photos to the Service, you hereby grant Airliners.net a limited, revocable, perpetual (subject to your right of revocation), worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), and advertise around the User Photos. This limited license only allows Airliners to use your User Photos on or through the Service.

The way this reads, that part about "Through the Service" can absolutely be read to mean, and I fear will be read to mean by DM's IP lawyers, that photos posted on A.net may be distributed, without royalty or consent, to others at DM's choosing. That looks a lot like the previous TOU that were deemed unacceptable by the Community.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6176 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi All

Maybe the term 'service' is too vague and it needs to be made explicit exactly what that service is. Later it says this

Also, this limited license does not permit Airliners.net to distribute your User Photos in any way other than on and through the Service.

So your photos will not be used in any other way but if 'service' does not comminucate clearly what the usage is it will need to be made explicit.

if te term service is problematic perhaps it should be explained what exactly is meant by service: something like "the display oof your photos on a.net's image database'

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineFlyheligirl From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 352 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6176 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Lennymuir (Reply 2):
Please give practical examples of that 'discretion'..

For the last few years, one of the benefits of the first class membership is to be able to view all photos without the watermark. That is the example we were talking about here. We would like to maintain that for our first class members. Hope that makes sense, let me know if it doesn't.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):

Quote:

1. When you post User Photos to the Service, you hereby grant Airliners.net a limited, revocable, perpetual (subject to your right of revocation), worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), and advertise around the User Photos. This limited license only allows Airliners to use your User Photos on or through the Service.

The way this reads, that part about "Through the Service" can absolutely be read to mean, and I fear will be read to mean by DM's IP lawyers, that photos posted on A.net may be distributed, without royalty or consent, to others at DM's choosing. That looks a lot like the previous TOU that were deemed unacceptable by the Community.

I answered you in site related too... my answer is below.

The last sentence in that paragraph says, "this limited license only allows Airliners to use your User Photos on or through the Service." These means that we cannot use your photos anywhere else except Airliners.net, with the exception being the linked photos which has been there for a long time, which allows users to drop html code on their homepage and show "the picture of the day." http://www.airliners.net/ownsearch/

Does this answer your question?

Thanks,

Monique


User currently offlineLennymuir From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 434 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6140 times:

Ok, ....first class memberships .....


Thanks

Gerry


User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2850 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6100 times:

These terms are much better, I'll be uploading once again, I agree with Tim that the term 'service' needs to be made more clear, on my first read through I was a little worried with what the term service applied to, technically, it could mean just about anything, but after another read through I got what it meant, but I would like it changed.

-Matt



No info
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6083 times:

And here is my response from SR.


Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 11):

Also, this limited license does not permit Airliners.net to distribute your User Photos in any way other than on and through the Service.


Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 9):

Does this answer your question?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not particularly, considering that the sentence is not specific as to what "through the service" means.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6077 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Not particularly, considering that the sentence is not specific as to what "through the service" means.

Service is define at the opening of the terms:

THE SITE COLLECTIVELY, THE ("SERVICE")

It's clearly Airliners.net itself.


User currently offlineFlyheligirl From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 352 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 6025 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AC320 (Reply 9):
Service is define at the opening of the terms:

THE SITE COLLECTIVELY, THE ("SERVICE")

It's clearly Airliners.net itself.

That's exactly true. The service is defined below:

THESE TERMS OF USE ("Terms"), ARE A BINDING CONTRACT BETWEEN AIRLINERS.NET ("Airliners.net" or "we") AND YOU ("you"). YOU MUST READ AND AGREE TO THESE TERMS, INCLUDING THE PRIVACY POLICY, BEFORE USING THE AIRLINERS.NET WEBSITE (the "Site") OR ANY SOFTWARE, GAMES, APPLICATIONS, FEATURES OR FUNCTIONALITY AVAILABLE ON OR THROUGH THE SITE COLLECTIVELY, THE ("SERVICE"). BY USING THE SERVICE, YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS, DO NOT USE THE SERVICE.

Again, hope this better helps.


User currently offlineFlyheligirl From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 352 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6006 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi all,

I'm heading out for the night and will return in the morning to respond to any new comments or questions. Please be patient, I know you want your questions answered and I'll get to them first thing when I get in the office.

Thanks,

Monique


User currently offlineGuamVICE From Guam, joined Jun 2005, 151 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

Thanks for posting Monique. I'm sure many others will finally be at ease.

Regards,
Brandon



The two most engaging powers of a photographer are to make new things familiar and to make familiar things new. ~Thacker
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6000 times:



Quoting AC320 (Reply 9):
Service is define at the opening of the terms:

THE SITE COLLECTIVELY, THE ("SERVICE")

It's clearly Airliners.net itself.

That doesn't clarify whether it means using them only on the site or using the site as the medium with which to use the photos for other reasons in other places.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5990 times:

Thanks to all at Demand for their work on the "new" terms.

Vastly improved, in my opinion.  Smile



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5943 times:

Can the service make a dime from someone's posted image without that persons consent? e.g. t-shirt sales, video sales, picture books, etc. Or if the service does make money from someone's image, what percentage goes to the copyright owner?

User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1689 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5889 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER



Quoting Flyheligirl (Thread starter):
1. You as the photographer/copyright holder retain ownership of the submitted picture, and only grant a limited license to Airliners.net so that other members of the community may view and enjoy your photograph.

Jeff,
That question of yours is actually covered in the above.
So the answer to your question is no. If DM wants to use a photograph of yours, they, like any other customer will have to get your permission and pay if necessary.
Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineWalter2222 From Belgium, joined Sep 2005, 1303 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5862 times:



Quoting Flyheligirl (Thread starter):
We will try to notify everyone who submits a picture of the outcome of the screening process by email.

I would limit that to the photographer who submitted the picture...not necessary to inform "everyone"  Smile

On a more serious note: Is somebody keeping track of the suggestions/comments that are accepted and/or will be considered as changes?

Best regards,

Walter



canon 340d ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l is usm - ...
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3064 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5823 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

These revised ToUs appear to me to be much more acceptable to the photographer community. My thanks to all colleagues who have clearly been putting a lot of time and effort behind the scenes to formulate these revisions.

I would add one point again - I believe this matter is of such importance that a separate email should be sent to all photographers, updating them on the situation following the last email and also directing them to this thread. This Forum should not be seen to be the only means of communicating on such an important topic area - especially as we saw how strongly people felt about this issue and how it was handled.

All the best.

Paul


User currently offlineAnder From Spain, joined Jan 2005, 367 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5801 times:



Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 5):
For the last few years, one of the benefits of the first class membership is to be able to view all photos without the watermark. That is the example we were talking about here. We would like to maintain that for our first class members. Hope that makes sense, let me know if it doesn't.

This does not protect us from misuse of the photo. Any first class member could save any photo to their computer and then use it for any purpose without the watermark, right?

Ander



Born to tri.
User currently offlineDendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1689 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5789 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER



Quoting Ander (Reply 19):
This does not protect us from misuse of the photo. Any first class member could save any photo to their computer and then use it for any purpose without the watermark, right?

It has always been that way so, yes, you are right.
DM is saying that it will not use them for itself and if someone abuses your copyright, then that is for you to address yourself.
By sharing images, by uploading to any website there is a risk that others will/can abuse your copyright.
DM (or any other site for that matter) cannot be held responsible for what others might do with your copyright, they can only set out their respect for it (which I am certain they have now done)

Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5781 times:



Quoting Ander (Reply 19):
This does not protect us from misuse of the photo. Any first class member could save any photo to their computer and then use it for any purpose without the watermark, right?

Of course it doesn't, and that doesn't change the current situation - I as a First Class subscriber can currently view your photos without the watermark, and I must say that that is *the* reason I continue to pay the subscription. If that ability were to be taken away from me then I would stop paying.

The photographers on this site strive for excellence in the photos they upload, does it make any sense to subsequently lower the quality of those photos through the addition of a watermark to those actually paying for the service? By limiting the watermark to non paying visitors, you have pretty much mitigated 99% of your problem anyway.


User currently offlineLeadingEdge From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5759 times:

These terms of use look fine to me. I agree with Psych that their availablility for review should be communicated as soon as is practical to all users by e-mail.

My only very minor question would relate to the potential for a site ban for spam attacks, (which I whole- heartedly support). My e-mail address has been used recently by spammers and I would like an assurance that action will not be taken against members as a result of the unauthorised use of their e-mail address by spammers.

[Edited 2008-02-22 01:58:43]

User currently offlineFarcry From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5656 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 21):
Quoting Ander (Reply 19):
This does not protect us from misuse of the photo. Any first class member could save any photo to their computer and then use it for any purpose without the watermark, right?


Of course it doesn't, and that doesn't change the current situation - I as a First Class subscriber can currently view your photos without the watermark, and I must say that that is *the* reason I continue to pay the subscription. If that ability were to be taken away from me then I would stop paying.

The photographers on this site strive for excellence in the photos they upload, does it make any sense to subsequently lower the quality of those photos through the addition of a watermark to those actually paying for the service? By limiting the watermark to non paying visitors, you have pretty much mitigated 99% of your problem anyway.

Anders. Moo has summed up perfectly the main reason why we pay the FC fee. No watermark. Also Anders, please realise and respect the fact that most of those who pay to view your pictures are not out to rip you off. Of course, there are bound to be a few 'bad apples' but that's the same in many walks of life.

Farcry


User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5648 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
hat doesn't clarify whether it means using them only on the site or using the site as the medium with which to use the photos for other reasons in other places.

Wouldn't that be something that has always existed?
I mean e-mail-able postcards of the pictures have existed for ages, there's the photo of the day viewer, print sales etc...

Is restricting the use of photos through Airliners.net and it's features via a limited, non-exclusive license that states ownership remains with the individual and guarantees proper credit while assuring Airliners.net and its parent entity make no ownership claims and will remove said photos upon request not going to cut it?

I know faith in DM is probably at or near zero, but this certainly stops anything underhanded or nefarious from going on. Per these terms, if they even look at you funny and you can request photo removal or rain down legal trouble upon them.

Can we therefore be more detailed or specific as to what the concern is? What are the other places that you worry about and how would the pictures be used there?


25 Farcry : Just wanted to ask about (a) in the above quote. What exactly is a TIF? If a picture is submitted as a JPG why would it need to be converted or compr
26 Dvincent : TIFF = Tagged image file format. A file format that, unlike JPEG, does not use lossy compression. It's generally used in the print industry. It just
27 Chris78cpr : Looks ok to me i think. Chris
28 Samuel32 : Much better! These terms looks pretty good to me. Sam,
29 Farcry : Thanks for your reply Dvincent. A good explanation (to me). Just another question though. If photos are uploaded at the correct resolution (or within
30 AndyEastMids : So in other words, DM could package up some of the pictures into [say] a screensaver or some other software product or application that is made avail
31 JeffM : It absolutely does..... Ever had one of you images stolen and used ? And guess what? Without a watermark on it? I have. Anyone can pay the measly sub
32 Clickhappy : If you are worried about your photos being stolen the only surefire way to avoid it is to not put them on the web. Or maybe you can build your own sit
33 Post contains links AC320 : Not necessarily since the TOU offer the following protection/guarantees: For clarification, the limited license to modify your User Photos for techni
34 AC888YOW : I'd say most people have either never had a photo stolen or have had it happen but never known about it. I too have had pics stolen, and until someon
35 Acontador : Hi All, Please remember that in this ToU everything that TODAY is done within the site had to be incorporated. For example, as far as I know nobody up
36 Clickhappy : I've had photos stolen. By big companies, small companies, and everything in between. 1 shot was in all the Australian newspapers, another a billboard
37 Dvincent : 100% agree, Andres. I like these new terms and think they're much better. I would sign off on them.
38 AC888YOW : I didn't lose sleep either. What I lost was time in chasing the thieves. I wish I could understand why those who don't care seem to think their opinio
39 N1120A : Again, the use is what is in question. The TOU still read as to give unlimited wiggle room for DM to do whatever they want with the photos. People ha
40 Codeshare : The new terms look much better. One suggestion: in point #2: The We will try to notify to We will notify . This way we know that the outcome of the sc
41 TimdeGroot : Since A.net does not own the copyright (the point of the whole TOU) it wouldn't make any sense to tell people to take down photos etc since only the
42 Cubsrule : Monique, in DM's eyes, why do y'all need the site/service distinction in the first place? I (obviously) can't speak for N1120A, but it seems like cut
43 Codeshare : Yes, but it's hosting them, and has more 'power'. Anyways that is just an idea. KS/codeshare
44 Flyheligirl : Agreed and the email was sent out last night. It was planned all along, just ran out of time yesterday... so the entire community should be receiving
45 Flyheligirl : Also, we can not be held responsible for not notifying you therefore the wording "we will try" is accurate. We will do our best but we aren't obligat
46 Post contains links AC320 : I disagree and think this is the core of the issue. The process is simple and the same as its always been: For Content consisting of your User Photos
47 Moo : Pfft, photos. I've had entire website designs stolen, flash videos I spent weeks on stolen, javascript code I wrote for community websites stolen. I'
48 N1120A : I understand that you are going to disagree, but I don't necessarily see the A.net crew as having much of a choice at this point. Not only is that li
49 Moo : Regardless, I am still paying for his photos to be hosted, by the very virtue that if I didn't get watermark-less access, I probably wouldn't be payi
50 AC320 : Pardon? There's going to be many different viewpoints coming in from all sides regarding any TOU issues on a site like this. Well granted its hyperbo
51 TimdeGroot : Actually the ads pay for that. Tim
52 Moo : Right, and my monthly membership goes 100% into your holiday fund.
53 Aero145 : Much better - I guess I'll start uploading again. Still, I don't understand why such a hoolabaloo had to be made in the first place, and that the ToU
54 Clickhappy : N1120A 1) I get the sense that you, and a few others, will be unhappy with whatever terms Demand Media offers. I find it funny that most of these same
55 N1120A : Given the recent history with the crew, I don't think that such differing viewpoints will come from your end. Well, it is, especially seeing that thi
56 Clickhappy : As far as I can see you are the only one calling it a "virtually limitless license." Can you back this statement up, or are you trying to just be a f
57 APFPilot1985 : Royal, Is this the same one that gave the old TOUs a thumbs up as well?
58 N1120A : Oh really. How about you take a look at Halls120's posts on the thread in Site Related. Back off there tiger. The language of the TOU is rather plain
59 Clickhappy : Yes.
60 Clickhappy : It seems very cut and dry to me. From the TOUs: This limited license only allows Airliners to use your User Photos on or through the Service. The Serv
61 Flyheligirl : Hi N1120A and all, I want to answer your questions but you must be specific. Throwing out "virtually limitless license" seems to me that you may be st
62 APFPilot1985 : That maybe where the problem is coming, a suggestion would be a defined limit of what types of usage are allowed through the service.
63 Ander : Did I say so? Then what is the reason for a watermark at all? As far as I know A.net implemented the possibility of adding a watermark to protect pho
64 TimdeGroot : Ander this doesn't make a great deal of sense...fc do not see the watermark and regular viewers do, not the other way around. So the visitor from a b
65 Ander : Tim, I hope you are right. But so far my experience (and some others') says the oppsosite. Cheers, Ander
66 Psych : Very glad to hear that Monique - a wise move in my opinion. I am still to receive mine. Whilst I understand the attempt to ensure this important issu
67 JeffM : How many of your stolen images had a watermark across them? Did the watermark show up on that billboard?
68 N1120A : I'm not stirring anything, I am pointing out what is pretty plain. There is no limiting language that says what "through" is supposed to mean. But th
69 AJ : Didn't Demand Media make an offer to buy the 'other site' as well? Can't be all bad despite your slander.
70 JeffM : Talk about not making sense?!? It makes a lot more sense to pay for a month of FC membership to steal an un- watermarked image then it does save the
71 Clickhappy : N1120A - sounds like your best course of action might be to pull your photos off the site. Out of curiosity, how many photos, if any, are we hosting f
72 Post contains images Cathay111 : Hey Royal, rather than criticising the opposition and telling us how many photos you sell and how shit-hot you are post constructively and perhaps add
73 Tommy Mogren : So if I understand this correctly, this means that the deal Johan made with AirNav to show our photos in their ACARS software is ok according to the
74 NIKV69 : . I hope your just not realizing this now. It's those same numbers that keep most still uploading here. Even the ones who walk around with the "This s
75 Ander : Agree on this. But not on this. We do have the option of a watermark though only for some viewers. A.
76 Clickhappy : Craig - judging by the emails I would say at least some people who have read my posts have found them constructive. As with all things some people get
77 Granite : Hi all For all those that were up in arms with the previous ToU's it would be good to hear your comments on the new version. Many on the previous thre
78 Kukkudrill : I think the new TOUs are a great improvement and we're almost there. Good to see DM actively listening and responding to feedback. I do have a couple
79 Post contains images Ptrjong : I can't find an issue with the new terms. I'd like to thank the 'old crew' for their efforts in this matter. I'm confident now that DM is willing to r
80 Dvincent : I'm fine with these new TOU. They're fundamentally sound to me even if they need some tweaking here or there.
81 D L X : Here are my issues: 19E - This can be read as saying A.net users do not have the right to assign what they own to others and have A.net recognize the
82 Post contains links Aloges : I'll quote from the thread in the invisible forum: Review Only - New Terms Of Use (by Flyheligirl Feb 21 2008 in Site Related) That and the legalese
83 Post contains images Scottieprecord : Other than the few remaining tweaks to be worked through, I'm happy with the new ToU. Thanks to the crew for chiming in so often, too. Really makes a
84 Cubsrule : The jurisdiction and venue sentence is all right (contracting parties can generally consent to jurisdiction and venue wherever they like-- assuming a
85 Fly747 : I'm quite satisfied with the new Terms as well. Good to see things worked out. Ivan
86 Jetmatt777 : Same here. Now, trusting DM, that's a different story, it'll take a few years for them to prove to me they want what's best for our community and the
87 KarlADrage : In light of the revisions I've added a few to the queue. Think that says it all.
88 Granite : Hi all Thanks Karl, should be screened soon. Regards Gary
89 Spoogle : Goin back a few replies ... Bang out of order Royal ... i thought you were better than that ... i guess i was wrong !
90 FYODOR : Thanks guys. Rules seems are fine now but one little comment. It is not a secret that Russia as like as many other countries has less practice of copy
91 Apgphoto : Well these terms are a damn site better than the first set!
92 D L X : Of course they can, but WHY should the users consent to that? Especially a user in Europe? A forum clause like that, when we're dealing with individu
93 Cubsrule : What forum do you suggest? It's lousy, but in a globalized world, there isn't much choice.
94 Codeshare : I have to agree with this one. In Poland, on many times a photo is describes as : "Internet" for example. KS/codeshare
95 Post contains images Allstarflyer : I'm glad to see Monique active in this thread . . . I've been (and still am, I admit) a bit hard on the DM crew for not being active. Clickhappy, from
96 D L X : I wouldn't suggest a forum. You don't have to. Besides that, choice of forum is usually the plaintiff's choice. honestly, I expect a big "F.U." from
97 Cubsrule : While this isn't the time for a Civil Procedure debate, there's so much forum shopping possible today that it seems to me like there's at least some
98 JeffM : Excellent info. Thanks for exposing this.
99 Paulc : Still not keen on 4B of the new tou's - namely "This limited license only allows Airliners to use your User Photos on or through the Service." It is t
100 Dendrobatid : I admit that that jurisdiction issue had passed me by but I remain convinced that this is not a great problem. The important thing as I see it is to e
101 D L X : I understand that, and I wouldn't say that idea is invalid. But, you really are assuming that DM will perpetually adhere to the terms of use. You are
102 JeffM : This could be lessened some if the photographers were allowed to keep their watermark on all images all the time even to first class viewers.
103 Leadingedge : In my view Jeff has valid point here. If photogrphers choose to add the watermark then the watermark should stay for all viewers no matter what their
104 Post contains links Clickhappy : A good link to read re: stolen photo http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/25/0159250&from=rss
105 AndyEastMids : I think I am going to advise DM that I do not accept the new terms with respect to my photographs, and I'm going to tell them that before their deadl
106 Psych : I still haven't received any communication from DM on this (checked the spam filter too) - anyone else? I really do hope there has been no technical
107 Post contains images QANTAS077 : can't say that I've received it either...its becoming far to complex for me! DM...ever heard of KISS?
108 Tommy Mogren : No, nothing here either... Tommy Mogren
109 Paulc : Andy, yes it is a problem - 2 tries at TOU's for photographers and still they are not right (but slightly better than the first try) Email sent to sup
110 Dendrobatid : Slightly better ?????? Come on Paul, get real ! Everyone was concerned with the first set, myself included but the revised ones are spot on, or as ne
111 StealthZ : In DM's defence an email was received by me on 22/02 and also by my father. It basically repeated what Monique posted in the OP Cheers
112 Post contains images Walter2222 : Nothing here either... Have any remarks/suggestions for improvement (made in this forum or on the site-related forum) been incorporated in the alread
113 LeadingEdge : Same here. The explanation of "through the site" seems acceptable to me. Given that it is made clear elsewhere that modification and resale will not
114 Paulc : meant to put a smiley after that statement. Having said that to me they are not there yet as i have no faith / trust in what DM means by 'through the
115 Post contains links and images Tommy Mogren : I have spent some more time reading the new ToU draft and this is something that strikes me too. In a sense, it's not much better than the first draf
116 D L X : Monique, does DM have any comments about my problem with the terms?
117 Walter2222 : 4 B ii : As consideration for your limited license of your User Photos to Airliners.net, Airliners.net will provide you with prominent attribution fo
118 Acontador : Hi All, I can only fully endorse what Mick said. I do not have any problem with the new ToU as they are right now. Sure, there could be some improveme
119 Jan Mogren : Cunning use of the term 'through the service' .. What is to stop DM from doing something like the aerotransport thingy? We can't even know if they dec
120 Kukkudrill : I've been mulling the terms over quite a while. I have three points to make. First, paragraph 3C (iii) should say "or you have obtained permission fro
121 LeadingEdge : Previously asked and then answerd by Monique in reply 5 I believe, where she explains the intenion of this wording.
122 Tommy Mogren : Well, if that is the intention. Why not write it like that. As it is written now, 'through the service' can mean anything. For example, if someone ma
123 Mikephotos : So based on the above, ANET/DM could produce a CD/DVD-ROM library ('SOFTWARE') of our photos and sell that product as long as it's used for display p
124 Snowfalcon : Hi, here are my comments to the Review Only ToU. "1A. Airliners.net is home to the largest, most active aviation community on the web...." I find this
125 Scotland1979 : How small? What is the minimum for this site? To play safe
126 Fly747 : 1000 pixels wide. Ivan
127 Viv : It appears from Point 11(c) of the Terms of Use that, in the event of termination of an account for whatever reason, the content previously uploaded b
128 Tommy Mogren : Agree with SnowFalcon, this line at 19F is ridiculous. "This Service is controlled by us from our offices in the United States of America and is direc
129 Kukkudrill : That's not how I read it. Forum posts may remain on the site, but photos will be deleted. See 4B (iv). I suppose this is to protect themselves from a
130 JeffM : unless that applies to forum posts only. If it is encompasses photos as well, that is unacceptable.
131 Dendrobatid : Jeff, As per 4 B iii, (the definition of content other than photos) this only refers to text If a thread starter suddenly decided that he wanted his c
132 Lijk604 : I for one, still have not recieved the letter from DM. Not sure why, I get all the rejection and acceptance emails. Secondly, if they cant get me noti
133 Tommy Mogren : Ok, so it's now 2004-02-28 and that's when the comment period ends according to DM. So, what happens now ? Will DM amend behind closed doors and just
134 JeffM : Sounds Reasonable, but unlikely.
135 Flyheligirl : Hi all, I will take all your comments, discuss with our legal team and either amend appropriately and explain or, if we leave it as is, we'll explain
136 PanAm_DC10 : As stated this thread is being archived and a new series of threads will be posted for updates to be discussed and any further issues addressed. The
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