Sponsor Message:
Aviation Photography Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Help Me Level This Would Ya?  
User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

This shot got the diss last night for level. To be honest I kind of expected it because I've never been good at levelling these banking shots.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/rejections/big/20080227_IMG_2252_TS_CGSAT_021708_SXM_InFlight.jpg

Can someone suggest a point of reference to use for levelling? Originally I tried using that V-shaped building above the wing.

Thanks for any help.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKLM772ER From Germany, joined May 2006, 615 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Hello,

I would say it needs some CW - Rotation with the main weight on the masts of the sailboats as they are in the center of the image and the building you used is supposed to be leaning a bit, as the image hast some wideangle distortion!

Hope this helps!

Cheers
Björn

[Edited 2008-02-28 07:52:23]

User currently offlineGuamVICE From Guam, joined Jun 2005, 151 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3148 times:



Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 1):
CW - Rotation with the main weight on the masts of the sailboats as they are in the center of the image

For an image like this, use your center verticals (you're lucky you've got some)... good luck, nice image!



The two most engaging powers of a photographer are to make new things familiar and to make familiar things new. ~Thacker
User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Using the ship masts I get some seemingly absurd rotation value of 8 - 8.5 degrees. This essentially eliminates most of the picture when cropping.

Using some of the buildings in the center I get a value around 4.5 - 5 degrees. This seems more 'reasonable', but the ship masts will not be perfectly vertical in this situation.

Can someone play around and lend me a hand using this (highly compressed) original? Thanks again.

Big version: Width: 3504 Height: 2336 File size: 272kb


User currently offlineKLM772ER From Germany, joined May 2006, 615 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Just a very quick play:

I rotated the picture 5.55° CW and this is for me the best compromise of looking level and cropping... Don't know if it would be acceptable this way, but I would add a comment to the screener explaining why leveled this way and hope the best  Wink

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 556kb


Hope to see it in the db, it is a nice photo!

Cheers
Björn


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Thanks Bjorn. Looks good to me. I'll try that and we'll see what happens.

User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

I think it needs a bit more than 5.55 CW. Here's with 6.5 CW:

http://www.airliners.net/photos/misc/uf/536884224/phpEopim7.jpg

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineKLM772ER From Germany, joined May 2006, 615 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3108 times:



Quoting SNATH (Reply 6):
I think it needs a bit more than 5.55 CW. Here's with 6.5 CW:

To make it complete level I would agree that it needs a bit more rotation! But than the crop gets a bit to tight for the picture IMHO that is why I think a little less is more in this case  Wink
And as it is a wide-angle shot there is some distortion anyway I think it is ok for this one...  Wink

Cheers
Björn


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3093 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hello Peter.

I really feel for you here, as I like the photo. Unfortunately I reckon this needs about 10 degrees  Wow! of rotation to make it level.

Big version: Width: 700 Height: 526 File size: 276kb
Peter's Photo

I think that the examples above still look in need of further rotation and thus some screeners may still not be satisfied.

I began by simply rotating according to what my eye suggested to me would be where the horizon would be, if the top of the photo was extrapolated upwards. Then with closer examination in the area of the middle of the photo - particularly that large hotel with clear verticals - I ended up with this amount. But it looks as though this will not be possible to crop acceptably.

All the best.

Paul


User currently offlineBubbles From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1193 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3082 times:



Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 4):
I rotated the picture 5.55° CW

Yes, I would agree. Roughly that looks good.

Big version: Width: 700 Height: 506 File size: 408kb
Rotation


Quoting Psych (Reply 8):
Unfortunately I reckon this needs about 10 degrees of rotation to make it level.

10-degree CW rotation is way too much.

_Hongyin_


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Thanks to all for their input.

Quoting Bubbles (Reply 9):
Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 4):
I rotated the picture 5.55° CW

Yes, I would agree. Roughly that looks good.

Hongyin, you've rotated the original (already rotated) image by 5.55 degrees, whereas Bjorn used my original and rotated that a true 5.55 degrees.

Could I trouble you to clarify whether or not Bjorn's example looks acceptable? Feel free to play with the original if you have a moment.

Big version: Width: 3504 Height: 2336 File size: 272kb


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3058 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 10):
Hongyin, you've rotated the original (already rotated) image by 5.55 degrees, whereas Bjorn used my original and rotated that a true 5.55 degrees.

So does that mean my estimate of 10 degrees was in fact not that far off?  wink 

I am now pretty confused too! The images in Hongyin's and my post look roughly the same to me. Well - what's a mere 5 degrees between friends  biggrin . It certainly makes a change to be debating this, rather than the usual 0.2 or 0.3 degrees.

All the best.

Paul


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3046 times:



Quoting Psych (Reply 11):
So does that mean my estimate of 10 degrees was in fact not that far off?

I guess not. Neither was my estimate of 8-8.5 degrees either  Wink

But I must say I have difficulty accepting the fact that this thing needs 8-10 degrees of rotation to get level. At the worst of times the most I've ever been off was about 3 degrees. If I was a complete idiot when taking this shot resulting in a 10 degree slope maybe I should consider selling my camera and changing hobbies.

Continued discussion is welcomed and appreciated.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3038 times:



Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 7):
To make it complete level I would agree that it needs a bit more rotation! But than the crop gets a bit to tight for the picture IMHO that is why I think a little less is more in this case

I understand, but it's leaning distractingly (is there such a word!!!!) to the left.

Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 7):
And as it is a wide-angle shot there is some distortion anyway I think it is ok for this one...

Sure, but both sides are leaning to the left; due to the wide angle lens, one side should have been leaning to the left and the other to the right.

Quoting Psych (Reply 8):
Unfortunately I reckon this needs about 10 degrees

I feel that this is going too far. The right side of the pictures looks as if it's about to be "poured" out of the right border.  Smile

Quoting Psych (Reply 11):
I am now pretty confused too! The images in Hongyin's and my post look roughly the same to me.

Yeah, I'm confused too.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

I'm working on an edit that uses a 6.05 degree CW rotation of the original. I think It looks pretty good. I'll post it when I'm done.

User currently offlineKLM772ER From Germany, joined May 2006, 615 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3026 times:



Quoting SNATH (Reply 13):
Sure, but both sides are leaning to the left; due to the wide angle lens, one side should have been leaning to the left and the other to the right.

As said, I agree they are both not leaning the same amount, but they are not leaning to the same site....
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 124kb

Just some lines along some verticals (yes they are rough and can be off about 2 degrees, but they show the tendency...)
And the aircraft is in a bank, and it is photographed in an angle out of the window, and therefor I rather like the verticals in this one a bit off (as they eye is fooled in a way by the angle anyway) than cropping to much of the landscape, which is IMHO what makes the picture!

As said it is not 100% level, but the best compromise for me..

Cheers
Björn


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Here's another edit:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/IMG_2252_TS_CGSAT_021708_SXM_InFlight_Re.jpg


User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3012 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 12):
At the worst of times the most I've ever been off was about 3 degrees. If I was a complete idiot when taking this shot resulting in a 10 degree slope maybe I should consider selling my camera and changing hobbies.

You do yourself a great disservice there Peter in my opinion. By the look of the bank angle, your 'frame of reference' is seriously off level in the first place. You have the aircraft angled relative to the horizon due to the climb, and then you have the angle due to the bank. That would mess things up badly for the best of us trying to get an 'A.net level' photo wink .

All the best.

Paul


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3007 times:

If it wasn't totally obvious I was just joking around about the selling camera/changing hobbies bit. I was making fun of myself and my abilities if the best I can do results in being off angle by 10 degrees!

And you're right about the bank angle. It is quite steep. Anyone who has observed departing aircraft at SXM and experienced the departure themselves knows what I'm talking about.


User currently offlineBubbles From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1193 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

Hi Peter

Just did a very quick rotation and crop.

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 533 File size: 352kb
AnotherTry


_Hongyin_


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2978 times:

Thanks Hongyin. The angle on yours seems pretty darn close, if not identical, to my latest effort. I'll leave it in the queue and see what happens.

User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2953 times:



Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 16):
Here's another edit:

Levelling-wise, I think this is the best out of all the previous attempts. Great shot too! Good luck!

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2952 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I have been very interested reading this thread, and have come to the original anew this morning.

This is my revised attempt, as I still get preoccupied (rightly or wrongly) with that large hotel in the top centre area of the photo:

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 553kb
Peter's Revised Image

Whichever way you go with this one, Peter, I wish you all the best. I hope you are right, and I am wrong, because I think the photo is enhanced by including the whole of that flap fairing that I have had to crop. It is a horrible one to get just right and I hope the screeners give you a sympathetic hearing.

Just one further point - I found the example you posted in Reply 16 slightly dark - I refer particularly to the top left hand area of the image.

Good luck.

Paul


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Just an update:

My re-submission has been accepted. I won't plug it, but you can obviously search for it if you want.

Thanks to all for your help.

- Peter -


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2911 times:



Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 23):
I won't plug it

I will!!!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Tsagaris - CYOW Airport Watch



Great shot and congratulations!

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
25 Psych : Very well done there Peter - this is a photo that deserved to be accepted. All the best. Paul
26 Scotland1979 : Great shot! Nice to see it in database! Frank
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Please Help Me With This A/c. posted Mon Apr 17 2006 00:11:53 by I530j
Can Someone Help Me With This Photo I Need Plz? posted Wed Mar 1 2006 00:54:34 by ArniePie
Help Me ID This Aircraft... posted Thu Feb 23 2006 11:53:26 by Flyfisher1976
Can You Help Me Identify This Aircraft posted Tue Feb 7 2006 20:52:21 by GBOAB
Can You Help Me Identify This Jet? posted Sat Aug 13 2005 18:30:14 by Lhrmaccoll
Hoping A Screener Can Help Me With This... posted Sat Jul 16 2005 05:14:52 by AirbusfanYYZ
Help Me ID This 747 posted Sat Apr 16 2005 03:31:55 by GNBpix
Please Help Me With This Badmotive posted Sun Jan 2 2005 22:04:39 by F9Widebody
I Hate To Ask, But Help Me With This Badcontrast.. posted Fri Nov 19 2004 14:50:05 by F9Widebody
Can Anybody Help Me With This Rejection? posted Tue Jun 8 2004 19:44:50 by Lucanus