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Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...  
User currently offlineGliderpilot08 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 136 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Hi community

Below is a link to a picture that just blew my mind.  Wow!
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...l/Boeing-727-2F9-Adv(F)/1350435/L/

I was looking at it and tried to visualize really how high the aircraft is from the ground; and I was unsuccessful.

Could anyone give me an Idea of how high the aircraft is from the street below it.

I'm betting it's under 100 feet!!!!! Are there maybe more pictures of lower appraoches????

Thanks

Luke


Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCommpilot From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

30 feet maybe??

Seems very unsafe, but then again the other side of the runway is water and a mountain.


User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4040 times:

All aircraft fly very low just before hey reach the ground ... otherwise they would not reach it.


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineGliderpilot08 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4022 times:

Hi Viv,

Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
All aircraft fly very low just before hey reach the ground ... otherwise they would not reach it.

 Yeah sure

Any "Monkey" knows that!! but like in the picture at the beginning of this thread, I think that getting a little to low and should violate some minimum heights as it appraoches the threshold of RWY09.

I know for a fact that aircraft usually don't fly this low on appraoch, because even for St. Maartin, I have seen aircraft on appraoch at reasonable heights so that their tires arn't scraping the fence.

I'm sure as heck not saying this is a bad thing, because photographers like us thrive on this kind of appraoch, but I'm saying that that's a little to exteme for the safety of poeple on the ground.

I'm sure that they must have some sort of "mimimum height" for appraoches to SKM?! Don't they???  scared 

Really, I have absolutly nothing agianst SKM in general, (I love that place) but that picture above did raise my attention as to how low it was to the ground, just before it's touchdown. !!!!!!!!  eyepopping 

Best Regards,!

Luke



Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4017 times:

He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineGliderpilot08 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3999 times:



Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe

Really?? September 11, 2001

Really?? Please don't make me illustrate to you the countless aviation accidents that have occured in the aviation world in the past 10 years. I will run out of room in the message space.
 Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure

I am assuming that your comment above meant that air travel is almost 100% safe.  Wink

I am not implying that air travel is hazardous to poeple at SXM, I was just offering a comment that the aircrfat in that picture WAS flying a lot to low on his appraoch. The appraoch he flew was much lower than most appraoches to SXM. From looking at the picture, the aircraft was TOO low for comfort; BUT WHAT A GREAT PICTURE IT PRODUCED!

Best Regards Viv,

Luke



Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
User currently offlinePsych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3985 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I was chatting to James recently about this famous photo he took at this venue a couple of years ago:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Rowson


This gives you a good indication of where the runway threshold is and, therefore, where the pilot should be aiming to touch down. Clearly this KLM got it a bit wrong, and maybe the 727 was also aiming just a bit short (on purpose?).

I believe it has been known for a plane to take out that fence (presumably not on purpose) - but maybe that needs confirmation from someone better informed than me.

Paul


User currently offlineGliderpilot08 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3975 times:



Quoting Psych (Reply 6):
was chatting to James recently about this famous photo he took at this venue a couple of years ago:


View Large View Medium

Photo © James Rowson


This gives you a good indication of where the runway threshold is and, therefore, where the pilot should be aiming to touch down. Clearly this KLM got it a bit wrong, and maybe the 727 was also aiming just a bit short (on purpose?).

Paul, you're right and I realize the airport orientation at SXM but arn't there "minimum heights" for appraoches to SXM or is it "as long as you don't hit the highway??" kindof rule.

Amazing picture!

Regards

Luke



Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3954 times:



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Thread starter):
Are there maybe more pictures of lower appraoches????

If you look, I am sure you will find a few.

Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 5):
Really?? September 11, 2001

Really?? Please don't make me illustrate to you the countless aviation accidents

First off, Sept. 11 wasnt an accident. 2nd of all, Viv is right, never left a passenger in the sky as far as I know.


User currently offlineINNflight From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 3766 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3941 times:



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 7):
but arn't there "minimum heights" for appraoches to SXM

There always are, but that doesn't mean pilots cannot accidently (or on purpose...) slip below that height.

I am not sure what point you try to make? No, it's not the usual SXM approach height...



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineGliderpilot08 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Airliners.net

Below is the order of posts that contributed to a very bad result in the post, and I am sorry.

Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.



Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.

Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 5):
Really?? September 11, 2001

Really?? Please don't make me illustrate to you the countless aviation accidents

First off, Sept. 11 wasnt an accident. 2nd of all, Viv is right, never left a passenger in the sky as far as I know.



Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 7):
but arn't there "minimum heights" for appraoches to SXM

There always are, but that doesn't mean pilots cannot accidently (or on purpose...) slip below that height.

I am not sure what point you try to make? No, it's not the usual SXM approach height...

To start, It's time to admit my fault. I created this post to try and figure out if there were Mimimum Height rules for aircraft on appraoch; especially for SXM?!
I started getting too much off topic and realize now that I said some things that were outright false.  banghead 

I extend my appologies to Viv for questioning the intelligence of a well-respected aviation enthusiast and member of a.net (Viv).  cry 

I made reply's to this post that were unlogical and had no value in them. and I am sure I insulted a few poeple too; which I dearly wish I didn't. Really guys, I am sorry.

I again am sorry for my actions in this post.  down 

I realize now that the questions I posed in this formum were so trivial, it's rediculous.

Anyway guys, I am sorry.
Obviously, I really need to think through my replys to posts before I start blabbing my BIG mouth on one of the most respected aviation web-sites in the world.

Best Regards Guys  stretch 

Luke  Sad



Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9054 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3891 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Hi guys,

usually you cross the threshold at 50 feet which will lead to a touchdown at the 1000' point of the runway. I don't know of many airports where you cross the threshold significantly lower than 50'. Approaches are usually made to overfly the threshold at 50' (+/- a few feet).

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineGPHOTO From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 829 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3878 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting Psych (Reply 6):
I believe it has been known for a plane to take out that fence (presumably not on purpose) - but maybe that needs confirmation from someone better informed than me.

The fence has been collected at least twice that I have heard of - can't believe it doesn't happen more often!

Best regards,

Jim



Erm, is this thing on?
User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1399 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3856 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT



Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
All aircraft fly very low just before hey reach the ground ... otherwise they would not reach it.



Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.

Viv, great comments, really funny lol.
But the second one is wrong, there has been several midair collisions, and TWA that blew up probably had quite a few casualties before the wreckage hit the ocean. What is true though, is that all casualties have found their way to the ground  Smile



5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3818 times:



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 5):
I am assuming that your comment above meant that air travel is almost 100% safe.

As I said, we have NEVER left a passenger up there yet ...



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3790 times:



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Thread starter):
Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Excuse me? This whole thread was just ridiculous....

Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
I am not sure what point you try to make?

Sums it up nicely..


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9054 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3764 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

I will lock that thread now as it is going off topic.

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
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