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Uploading And The Queue  
User currently offlineBeechcraft From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 828 posts, RR: 41
Posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5546 times:

Hi Everyone,

you might have noticed that we´ve been trying to keep the Queue low in the past few weeks ( i think we had it down to 1800 for a short period) and while this of course requires a major effort by the screening team, you as an uploder can help us, too.

When the Q gets low, the daily uploads rise. It´s a law of nature, it seems. When we had it at 1800 we saw around 1600 photos uploaded on each of the next three days, almost double the amount we normally see here.

Of course we highly appreciate high upload numbers, don´t get me wrong.
But with these huge numbers getting in, it´s almost impossible to keep the Queue down. It feels a bit like being a salmon trying to get upstream (without ever getting there...)

Now, while we had some real gems uploaded, we also screened a lot of low quality shots recently, as people are going through their archives, carelessly uploading anything they can find, or trying their luck on already rejected shots.

Please make sure that your uploads have the usual high quality, upload with care and do some prescreening. Don´t just upload, because you have free slots left and the turnaround time is so short.

We all benefit from a low Q with more high Quality images. Screening gets easier, acceptance ratios get better and we have more great photos added to the Database each day.

I hope i didn´t sound too much like a school teacher,

best regards and, a bit late, a happy new year,

Denis


That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFergulmcc From Ireland, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5542 times:



Quoting Beechcraft (Thread starter):
Please make sure that your uploads have the usual high quality, upload with care and do some prescreening. Don´t just upload, because you have free slots left and the turnaround time is so short.

Spending more time in the Pre Screening threads would also help Denis. There are very few posts from Screeners in there.

Might help as well.

Fergul  sun 



Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
User currently offlineStil From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 345 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

Hi.

Quoting Beechcraft (Thread starter):
people are going through their archives, carelessly uploading anything they can find, or trying their luck on already rejected shots

The 'I need to have something queued' feeling is strong.
It's a good advise, Denis. I must admit I thought it a couple of days ago. I was searching through my archives looking for something to upload, and there's always some pictures you think deserves a frame on A.net. Now I don't have a picture on the queue, but I'm under the impression that I need to send something, although I haven't got A.net quality pictures to upload.

Quoting Beechcraft (Thread starter):
Don´t just upload, because you have free slots left and the turnaround time is so short.

Exactly my thoughts.

Stil



....... Gueropppa! ......
User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

I thought this thread would say anything about the problem I’m having:

I simply can’t upload! I add a picture with all the right things filled out and it loads and loads and simply loads until I get too tired of waiting so I close the window.

This maybe a personal problem? Seen noone talk about it yet at least.


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5338 times:



Quoting Beechcraft (Thread starter):
we also screened a lot of low quality shots recently

Denis, my pal, didn't you promise it stays between you and me.......now you went public.

V.


User currently offlineAcontador From Chile, joined Jul 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5242 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Hi All,

Additional to above, please make sure you actually improve noticeably your pictures before re-uploading a previously rejected one. With the current low queue, we have an increasing number of re-uploads that, mildly said, don't look like have been substantially improved.

Please remember to carefully read the rejection message, as it is our way of telling you what problems we see in your picture. We may have not pointed out at all problems, so don't assume you just need to improve according to the rejection reasons. Also, always pre-screen yourself and try to be as critical as possible!



Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

I've been thinking about posting this for a while. But, we all know it was just Christmas time, and some of us (me included) just got new camera gear. While, I know this isn't really an excuse, perhaps the sudden increase in photos in the que could be attributed to an increase in people who are interested in getting some shots in the database? Any way to tell if those who are uploading shots now are new, or is that info not available?

Just me thinking out loud for a while

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineWhisperjet From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 571 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5124 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Hi,

imo it's just an inflation (another one for those from UK, Iceland and many other countries  cheerful  ). With the short screening times the queue slots just do not have the same value as they have when screening takes more than 2 weeks.

Stefan



Nobody is perfect - not even a perfect fool.
User currently offlineTopGun3 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

I have to say that the screeners have been doing an extraordinary job over the holidays trying to keep up with the influx of new uploads. I know a couple of screeners personally, and I imagine that the time they spend reviewing uploads could be better spend working on their own photos, but instead they sacrifice their time to serve the other A.net members.

My suggestion would be to revise the upload quota that would reward the people who prescreen their work better and punish the ones who waste screeners' time.

We know how the combination of acceptance ratio and # of photos in DB gives you an upload limit, but what if there was a third component. Lets say only so many uploads allowed per 30 day rolling period.

Example: 100 pic in DB, 40% UL ratio. That would give you 15 pic UL limit.
Now lets say we would figure out the max. uploads per 30 day period by quadrupling the UL limit (15) to 60 and then multiplying it by acceptance ratio (40%)....which would work out to 24 ULs in a month.

Example 2: 2000 pics in DB, 94% UL ratio. That would give 40 pic UL limit.
Using the above formula (40x4=160, 160x0.94=150)......you would get a max ULs per month to 150.

Now compare this to current system, presuming each person can maximize their uploads and has all their photos screened every 5 days....you would go through 6x15=90 pics from the Not-so-good uploader (or 54 rejections), and the better uploader in theory could post 6x40=240 pics (or only 14 rejections).

The new system would limit the number of rejected pictures from the Not-so-good uploaded to 14 rejections (vs 54 now).

When this "not-so-good" uploader works harder at fixing his/her pictures properly....his/her monthly uploading limit would start climbing to reflect the quality.


Just my 2 cents worth



I'd rather be flying.
User currently offlineTopGun3 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

Another suggestion:

Have some sort of peer review process that would allow the A.net community "pre-screen" photos for members who would like to have their work critiqued. This wouldn't involve screeners (therefore not waste their time). Members would have the option to have their work viewed by other A.nettes while it is in the upload queue....and receive feedback. Based on the feedback they could decide to delete their upload before it gets screened if some obvious faults get discovered by other members.

I know this would involve a fairly major change to the site, but they say "change is good".

No charge for this idea either  Smile



I'd rather be flying.
User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

...providing that the normal queue screening time is long ;> We don't want to wait longer for the screening do we?

KS/codeshare



How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5035 times:



Quoting TopGun3 (Reply 9):
Have some sort of peer review process that would allow the A.net community "pre-screen" photos for members who would like to have their work critiqued. This wouldn't involve screeners (therefore not waste their time). Members would have the option to have their work viewed by other A.nettes while it is in the upload queue....and receive feedback. Based on the feedback they could decide to delete their upload before it gets screened if some obvious faults get discovered by other members.

We sort of have this already - it's called a pre-screening thread.

Developing what you say requires:

- Coding
- Development testing
- QA testing
- UAT testing
- Migration to production
- Hope to god that it all works and the UAT team did their job properly.


User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5033 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT



Quoting TopGun3 (Reply 9):

You better not charge for it as it has been discussed extensively already, and that idea has been vented.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...tion_photography/read.main/324051/


And there is a peer preview already in the Pre-Screen thread.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...tion_photography/read.main/323879/



5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlineTopGun3 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4976 times:



Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 12):
You better not charge for it as it has been discussed extensively already, and that idea has been vented.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...tion_photography/read.main/324051/

Obviously there is still more need for discussion, otherwise it wouldn't be coming up, would it?

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 12):
And there is a peer preview already in the Pre-Screen thread.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...3879/

I know about "Pre-screening threads"....but they are very cumbersome as a way of getting things done. If everyone who wanted Pre-screening done started (or continued) a thread, all we would discuss here is pre-screening....oh...maybe like we are doing right here.

I'm trying to offer some doable ideas...not just complain and then reject.



I'd rather be flying.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4929 times:

I guess I should thank the screeners for everything they do. As a new photographer, I know I'm not taking the greatest quality shots, but with their help, I will do my best to get better.

I haven't been here long, and just thought of something. Maybe it has been done, maybe not. But, maybe one of the screeners could do a "trip report" on the screening process. Like, take us step by step through it, or even just make it a short video. I think that would change how some of us new guys went about submitting stuff. Maybe this has been done before, and I've just missed it.

Just a thought
-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineTopGun3 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Hey D-Flyer,

I agree with you....nobody is "perfect" right off the bat. I remember when I started a couple of years ago and fixed up a few pictures and got all of them rejected. Just recently I went back and looked at those photos and I was horrified by what I considered UPLOADABLE material.

Since then I have fixed about 3000 photos and got about 2000 of them into airliners. Even after so many tries I still second guess myself sometimes on what should I do with a particular picture....I'm still learning and experimenting.
There are guys out there I know that think I'm the guru at fixing pictures and want me to explain to them step by step how it is done......and I tell them, even if I give you a step by step procedure, it will not matter, because each picture requires different approach. It is more Art than Science.

Another point that a lot of people seem to forget is your computer and what hardware you use. Things like Colour, exposure, Soft, oversharpened etc. refusals can be avoided if you have your system setup correctly. I use Colour calibration device for my screen, purchased a pro level LCD monitor and turned off pixel smoothing because many times it masks jaggies when editing your photos.

Anyways....I always try to do the best job I can, and many times I don't fix up an interesting photo just because I know it will not meet the stringent A.net standards.

Mark K.



I'd rather be flying.
User currently offlineJetfreak From Austria, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4852 times:

what about one day a year were it's not possible to upload anything, which would be a holiday for the screeners.

User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9119 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4851 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Jetfreak (Reply 16):
what about one day a year were it's not possible to upload anything, which would be a holiday for the screeners.

As the a.net screeners are volounteers, they can take a day off whenever they want to. And this doesn't affect the upload. You can always upload and when one screener take a day off, then there are still enough screeners to screen the pictures.

wilco737
 cool 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineEadster From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2216 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

Quoting Acontador (Reply 5):
We may have not pointed out at all problems, so don't assume you just need to improve according to the rejection reasons.

Without you helping us, I find it hard that we can help you (fully) in your request as easily if you don't let us know all the reasons.

I know you guys have done a good job, and that is appreciated, but it kinda works both ways.

Fresh from a CRM course and communication from all parties is the key!

[Edited 2009-01-10 15:01:16]

User currently offlineJetfreak From Austria, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4751 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 17):

oh! i didn't no that. is it a full-time job?


User currently offlineConoramoia From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

I don't think(for me)uploading the same photo more than once is trying your luck unless you have haven't gone and edited it.

Suggestion-
Why can't A.net team up with other aviation website with their own screener's and ease the amount of screening per screener.

OR

even just get well known photographers(willing photographers) who know good aspects of any photo?

Thanks for reading,

Conor.


User currently offlineFYODOR From Russia, joined May 2005, 661 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4552 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 17):
As the a.net screeners are volounteers

Thats the point I can't understand clearly. Still A.net was not a commercial project it was reasonable - advanced photographers had spent their time for the common socity benefit. Since DM announced A.net as its business - why can't it pay (say parttime not fulltime) screeners some reasonable fees. It is actualy hard job to do - just imagine - instead of enjoing time from processing and uloading own great photos guys have to spend hours to work with others shots - as Denis mentioned - hundreds not always good or interesting shots.

Well, I understand that nobody force people to joing the screeners team, however many of us got our own jobs voluntary but we rewarded financialy for it.

I don't know all particulars indeed - just some thougts aloud.

Regarding Denis message - I try not to book all my queue limit when the queue is not very long - I think it is good practice of 'self-restrictions'. However I check my old archives too. First reason - winter is less busy time for photography, especially here - at the North. Second (might it will partly excuse me) - I was too busy at past Summer and Autumn and simply have missed or forgot many not bad shots were made.  Wink

Regards,

Fyodor


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9119 posts, RR: 76
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4527 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting FYODOR (Reply 21):

Thats the point I can't understand clearly. Still A.net was not a commercial project it was reasonable - advanced photographers had spent their time for the common socity benefit. Since DM announced A.net as its business - why can't it pay (say parttime not fulltime) screeners some reasonable fees. It is actualy hard job to do - just imagine - instead of enjoing time from processing and uloading own great photos guys have to spend hours to work with others shots - as Denis mentioned - hundreds not always good or interesting shots.

Sure, the screeners have a tough job, no doubt. Just to mention that all crew member have a tough job here. Since I started as Forum Moderator in August 2008 I received 12,000 emails! I have to work through them all as well. And I am sure the support crew and the editors have a whole bunch work to do as well.
We decided to join in as volounteers and I am sure most of us enjoy it. We have all our real life which has priority for most of us but we spend some time online here as we all enjoy airliners.net. And many of us upload pictures as well (like I do) or post in the forum and add their opinions to discussions. So a.net is for us a hobby and during that time we do some screening, deleting  duck  or database editing.

wilco737
 cool 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently onlineThierryD From Luxembourg, joined Dec 2005, 2081 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4483 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 22):
We decided to join in as volounteers and I am sure most of us enjoy it. We have all our real life which has priority for most of us but we spend some time online here as we all enjoy airliners.net. And many of us upload pictures as well (like I do) or post in the forum and add their opinions to discussions. So a.net is for us a hobby and during that time we do some screening, deleting    or database editing.

Fully agree, and not to forget as well that with money also comes more pressure meaning that if we'd get paid, DM could and probably would expect us to work a certain minimum amount of time per week, to only name one of the possible consequences of paid crewmembers. That however sometimes just is not possible.
I believe we're all better off by not being paid, enjoying the associated freedoms and only doing this "job" because we enjoy it.

Thierry



"Go ahead...make my day"
User currently offlineFYODOR From Russia, joined May 2005, 661 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4470 times:



Quoting ThierryD (Reply 23):
I believe we're all better off by not being paid, enjoying the associated freedoms and only doing this "job" because we enjoy it.



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 22):
So a.net is for us a hobby and during that time we do some screening, deleting or database editing.

Thanks, mates! I've got the point  Wink

Regards,

Fyodor


25 Viv : According to the counters, no shots have been screened in the past 5 hours. Why not?
26 WILCO737 : Screening has stopped until the bugs has been fixed. We want to avoid that pictures get accepted but not uploaded and they lose views. The time where
27 TimdeGroot : Hi Guys We're not able to screen at the moment because they're busy working on the database. Shots that have been added a few hours ago have probably
28 Viv : Understood, agreed - and thanks for the info.
29 CaliSam : I've had many rejections, most of understandable and a few weren't. One rejection in particular.. the screener actually left a short comment on what t
30 Jez : Beware screeners bearing gifts. I'm afraid that my experience with such comments is that after correcting and re-uploading, a multitude of other faul
31 Chukcha : My experience is different. Almost every time there is a screener's comment about something, it is the only thing that needs fixing, and the photo is
32 Post contains images Plainplane : I had a similar occurrence, after a shot was rejected for some reasons, then I uploaded the unedited version and one reason disappeared and was repla
33 TimdeGroot : We always try to list all reasons the first time, but that doesnt always happen. We work under great pressure and have to screen as quickly as possibl
34 EZEIZA : Fair enough, but I guess motive or any other non fixable reasons should be a priority, so then no reupload is attempted
35 Jez : Not wanting to hijack the thread, but I recall one shot that was rejected with the encouraging comment 'Cool shot, but needs a little extra kick of sh
36 LeadingEdge : Yes it is frustrating when this happens but come on ... ....it is your job to make sure that your pictures are of the right quality before you upload
37 LeadingEdge : Ref Reply 36 I am not sure what happened but that quote should be attributed to reply 30 By Jez Not sure if I made a mistake or if there is another bu
38 Jez : Your point appears to be based on the premise that users upload shots that they do not think are the right quality. I'm sure I'm not unusual in think
39 LeadingEdge : Jez As has been mentioned elsewhere, a screener does not have the time to give an exhaustive critique of your work but will point out the primary issu
40 Jez : I think you are missing my point. I'm neither asking, or expecting screeners to give an exhaustive critique. In fact, if you read my first two messag
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