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Pre & Post Screening Threads Your Input Required  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Dear photographers,

Many of you have mentioned these past few days that you would like to abandon the concept of the rejections and pre-screening mega threads. The screeners are aware of the disadvantages of these threads, they are not as effective as individual posts and do not invite user participation.

However, a few months ago we switched to the current format because many people were complaining the forum consisted of nothing but rejection and pre-screening threads. On their request we started the pre-screening threads.

We want this forum to work for you, but we dont want to switch back and forth every month. We therefore would like to collect as many opinions as we can on this, so we can come to an informed decision.

We therefore would like to make this thread a poll. If you want to switch back to individual threads then please start your post with "individual threads" as the first sentence. If you want to keep it way it is now please start your post with "mega-threads". You probably need to use more text to fill the post. So after starting a new paragraph please add a key point to explain your choice.

Signed,

The screening and moderating team


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4280 times:



Quoting Moderators (Thread starter):
However, a few months ago we switched to the current format because many people were complaining the forum consisted of nothing but rejection and pre-screening threads. On their request we started the pre-screening threads.

Isn't that a key reason this forum exists? How is someone supposed to improve? You have to realize that to get a picture accpeted here for a newbie is very hard and they are the ones who are joining this site and are basically the future of it. Just because some people bitched (and I would venture to say these were veterans who don't need help and rarely participate in the help threads) was not a reason to go to meagthreads IMO.

As for the poll I hate the megathreads and my particpation in helping people with captures and post processing has basically been little or nothing. To open a thread with 200 plus replies and try to follow what picture, who has made a comment etc is insane. It would clearly be better to have users start their own threads and let us render our help that way. Sure it would have to to be moderated more but I think more people help and more quickly.


User currently offlineRonS From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 762 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

individual threads

Limit it to one or two per 24 hours so people are not posting hundreds...

Thanks



All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4272 times:
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Individual Threads   

Almost all of my knowledge of photography has come from this forum, and the fact that I have been able to spread and apply that knowledge in many other areas of photography shows how powerful a tool this forum can be.

Since the mega threads were implemented, I have seen a decline in members helping each other out and offering constructive advice. I posted one or two photos in the mega threads, but they received little attention. The next reply after someone posts a pic for pre screening is usually another person posting one asking "how about this one?" and so on. Then the threads grow to 200+ replies and at that point I don't even bother. I would love to help others and engage in pre screening others' photos. But I have no interest in clicking those mega threads. At least with individual threads, assuming the topic title is specific enough, I can evaluate whether or not I might be able to help and from there check out the thread.

I say bring back the individual threads, but set some very strict guidlines. I have no interest in screening something when the poster only asks "how is this one?". Personally when I have something to be pre-screened, I point out one or two specific areas of the photo I would like some extra sets of eyes to check out. So as long as they involve requests for specific help, then I'm all for bringing back individual threads!

[Edited 2009-02-18 19:30:55]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineKoryo From Vatican City, joined Feb 2009, 285 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

individual threads

the mega ones take too long to download and its hard to tell the advice people are giving refers to what photo



This forum is as good as you make it. Never post a message in anger. Take the high road and others will follow.
User currently offlineDlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 7328 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

I guess I'll be the odd one out and say I prefer the mega-threads. They do keep the forum less cluttered, and I for one don't mind sifting through and offering advice.

I don't think it's too hard to follow which advice corresponds to which photo, unless maybe your attention span is really short. You may have to scroll up and down a few times, but it's not really that hard. Can you honestly say you've gotten lost in one of those threads?

I do, however, believe that the thread length should be limited to say, 50-100 replies maximum, as it does take a long time to load, considering many of the posts have multiple pics in them.

For those of you who think/hope that more attention will be given to individual threads, don't count on it. Whereas presently those who can't be bothered to open the mega threads will just pass them by, I believe multiple threads all asking "how's this one?", "is this good enough?", "what's wrong with this?", "what's your opinion on these?" are likely to engender just as much apathy (i.e. one or two answers) as they do in the mega-threads. All of you who aren't interested in opening the mega-threads, are you really going to open and respond helpfully to every "what do you think about my pictures" thread?

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 3):
I have no interest in screening something when the poster only asks "how is this one?". Personally when I have something to be pre-screened, I point out one or two specific areas of the photo I would like some extra sets of eyes to check out.

Very good point, but as someone who has recently been trying to do the best I can offering help in the mega-threads, I think you would be in the minority. The vast majority of the queries in the mega-threads are of the "how's this?" variety, not asking for any specific input. In your case, if you're looking for specific input, I think it reasonable to start your own thread, but where to draw the line between what warrants its own thread and what should then stay in the mega-thread would be difficult to distinguish.

More debate/options/opinions are needed I think.

Dana


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4240 times:
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Quoting Dlowwa (Reply 5):
The vast majority of the queries in the mega-threads are of the "how's this?" variety, not asking for any specific input.

The vast majority of the old individual threads were of the "how's this" variety and that was what bothered enough users that mega-threads were proposed. At some point people need to gain enough confidence to upload a shot without having to ask "hows this?" every time. It should be a learning process. A screener even commented back then that refused to look at such a request...or something along that line.

Whether it's a mega thread or individual threads, I think many would be a lot more accepting either way if it was a lot less about "Hows this?", "This?", "What about this?". It didn't take me a year or two years to get my first acceptance (like I read from so many users). Through the process of specific pre-screening, I actually learned what it takes.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineMidEx216 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

I like the idea of the mega-threads because it puts it all in one place, and people who want to post can see input on other images as well. However, I agree that there isn't nearly as much feedback as there is in individual threads. A portion of the comments I see consist of either 1) non-descript responses, or 2) people asking if anyone looked at their pictures.


"Cue the Circus Music!"
User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1399 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4231 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

There are pros and cons with both solutions but I am leaning towards individual threads.

One thread per user, with deletion of a thread after a certain time. OP has to put DELETE as final post in the thread to indicate it can be removed by mods before starting a new one.



5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlineNicolasRubio From Argentina, joined Sep 2005, 585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4227 times:

Individual threads.

With the OP being able to, and obliged to, delete the thread after being helped with the photo/s.



Gripped 7D + Sigma 10-20mm + 17-40L + 50mm f/1.8 II + 70-200mm f/4L IS + EF 400mm f/5.6L + 580EX II
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

Individual threads for me.....

I think the key question here is, are the mega-threads helping everyone who posts in them? No, is the straight answer, which means many are not benefitting from them and they therefore aren't functioning properly.

I've frequently been confused by which pieces of advice belong to which photo, and I've also frequently seen images which have been more-or-less ignored, despite the poster asking a sensible question. Such is the volume of images/questions that many offer assistance in the form of one-word or one-sentence answers, which often are not helpful at all.

When the threads were individual I contributed quite a bit, but rarely do these days because it's such a gargantuan task sifting through sometimes 200+ posts. There was a lot of moaning about the individual threads but they were (nearly) always clearly marked as pre- or post-screen threads, and if folks didn't want to read them they had the choice not to open them. I'm afraid many opened every one then moaned about it, which wasn't exactly fair.

And so we now have moaning about the current method, and no doubt there'll be moaning about reverting back to the old system, but at least now we've all had experience with both and can make an educated decision.

Karl


User currently onlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4200 times:

110% individual threads.

I also agree that some limitations could be put in place, to avoid same users abusing the function, but even if that is not put in place, the mega threads are mostly useless.
and yes, the forum will have tons of new threads, but it's simple, if you don't want it to bother, don't open the thread (maybe these threads should be obliged to have a celar Pre screen or post screen title so everyone knows what they're about?)

rgds



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4200 times:

Individual Threads (PROVIDED)

The ones to which help has been given should be locked and perhaps deleted instantly!

Nitin



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3961 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4194 times:

Individual threads please.

Better participation, better discussions, better advice = more educational not just for the person requesting help but for all.

Also, a more relaxed atmosphere in individual threads, room for a laugh, an opportunity to learn to know each other and each other's work better, strengthening the community.

Given the limited activity in this forum, I don't think the number of threads was ever a real problem. My feeling is that people were probably complaining about the lack of other threads - something the megathreads can't solve.

Still, the number of threads can be kept low by allowing only one thread per photograper at a time.

Suggestion for a thread naming convention if individual threads are allowed to come back: thread names should start with 'My Photos -' 'Pre- and post-screening' sounds so mechanical, as if we aren't doing this for fun, and the difference between the two actually isn't terribly relevant.

Peter Smile



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4179 times:
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Individual threads.

The mega threads are just ineffective and do not signify what this forum (partly) is, a place for help.

Guys please be clear on what your choice is, if not we cant count your vote.

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineDamien846 From UK - England, joined Dec 2006, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

Individual threads please.
May be a separate forum for Pre/Post screening?
Photos seem to get lost in the big threads.....and you could not easly find responces to your requests!
Damien


User currently offlinePRM From Burkina Faso, joined Apr 2002, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

Individual threads

- guarantees getting the necessary critique by several photographers for new and more experienced uploaders

- will ultimately reduce the number of shots being uploaded which are unlikely to make the cut

- currently feedback on the mega-threads is low, due time to load a thread and the large number of shots for review in the same thread (shots get lost in the thread easily).

- no more than one more thread per person at a time. Lock thread (rather than delete) once original poster acknowledges having read feedback.

Cheers, Paul


User currently offlineMcG1967 From UK - Scotland, joined Apr 2006, 515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4177 times:

Individual Threads

The mega threads are no longer working. The general idea behind the mega threads was ok, however in practice may be not so.

Each user should be limited to a max of 10 photos per thread, and only 1 thread per user allowed to be active at any given time. I don't agree with the suggestion to delete a thread after advice has been given - the OP may not have had time to read the advice before the thread is deleted.

Another thing I noticed - last week there was a post from the screening team giving examples of Contrast rejections, and how to correct the contrast in an image. This appeared to be useful for newer members. Is there a way to either:

a) Make that thread a sticky and any other helpful editing technique threads from the screeners or

b) Put the advice into a PDF that is linked and can be downloaded from the site.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4176 times:
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Quoting McG1967 (Reply 17):
I don't agree with the suggestion to delete a thread after advice has been given - the OP may not have had time to read the advice before the thread is deleted.

I agree, but more importantly the thread may contain information of useful value to others so having it available for read at a later time would be important in my opinion.

+1 for lock, not delete.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBeechcraft From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 828 posts, RR: 41
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4172 times:

Individual Threads,

the only ones that are helpful...



That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
User currently onlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4165 times:



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 18):
+1 for lock, not delete.

Add me there too

+2 for lock  Wink

seems like the individual threads so far is a large majority  Smile

I'm happy the idea of the survey actually was put in place Big grin



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineStil From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 345 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

Individual threads

I think the problem that started the two mega-threads was not the amount of opinion requiring threads but the quality of these ones. There were a lot of threads looking for advise on bad pictures wich had much to learn about photography principles instead of picture editing.
As many others said, I've learned a lot on this forum sailing through the individual threads and posting mines as well.
Another suggestion i want to make is to bring back the masterclasses. Tons of shared knowledge here.

Thanks for listening.

Stil



....... Gueropppa! ......
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4139 times:
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Indivudual Threads

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 18):
I agree, but more importantly the thread may contain information of useful value to others so having it available for read at a later time would be important in my opinion.

+3 for lock do not delete

Whilst I vote for individual threads I am not a fan of the "How is this..?" thread and tend to ignore them but if the photographer is prepared to discuss how the photo was taken, the conditions etc and what steps they had taken in post processing to get the result they have. I and I am sure many others will be prepared to discuss and assist.


Cheers

[Edited 2009-02-19 03:44:08]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6820 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

I'm more inclined to individual threads with a restriction on the number of photos at one time. I don't know about the logistics of a separate forum, Photo Processing or Photo Editing for example, to avoid the Photography forum itself being swamped by lots of individual threads; the original reason for the mega threads.

Locking threads is desirable because the advice is useful, though there are obvious problems if the photo in question or any subsequent edits/suggested alterations are deleted and can't be seen - one of my pet gripes. Maybe leave this to the discretion of the poster. If it's an "any chance?" "no" sort of thread then perhaps it can be deleted.

It may also be useful to collect together all the various links about how to process images and have them in a sticky thread so they are easily accessible. Or, perhaps have "Photography articles" along side the "Aviation articles" at the top of the page (if it fits)



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineRuudb From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 164 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

Individual threads

With a limit of 1 per 24hours, the megathreads are just to hard to follow.


25 Spurusho : Individual threads. IMHO, (1) A sub-forum in this forum for pre and post screening threads that would keep the main forum clean of clutter. or (2) One
26 Acontador : Individual threads. But would have to be implemented with clear rules, say a particular header so that everybody can recognize them as such, max numbe
27 JohnKrist : 4 images max sounds good, but not per day. Rather 4 active images to discuss, when one is dealt with and done another can be added. Otherwise you can
28 NicolasRubio : I suggest 2/3 images for pre-screen every queue period. Say, if the queue is 4 days, you can ask for pre-screen of 2 images every four days. Or one pi
29 BaldurSveins : I would propose another approach. How about collecting what has been in the megathreads into a sort of an "Upload advice" forum and keep the rest the
30 Sluger020889 : Individual Threads I have not looked at one mega thread since the idea was started. Too much to sift through. Joey Collura
31 JakTrax : Indeed there were, and often I would just put something like, "Look around this site and compare your photo to those already accepted". Usually folks
32 TransIsland : Neither Well, not really... I prefer individual threads, but rather than have them in the main photography forum, where other photography issues would
33 Chase : I think this is the way to go. Have the dropdown at top right contain "Civil Aviation", "Aviation Photography", etc. as it does today, but add one ne
34 EZEIZA : bingo. If said properly, with respect, the person will realize that there are higher standards than he/she thought. The queue won't be afected becaus
35 Jorge1812 : A while back I voted for the mega threads and think also started the first pre-screen thread. The problem was that we had too many threads blocking th
36 JakTrax : Incidently my very first upload was accepted, but instead of initially trying and trying with a bucket-load of mediocre images I first studied the si
37 AirKas1 : Individual threads. I agree that there should be rules for it.
38 Xenon : Individual threads Cheers Daniel
39 Dlowwa : OK, seeing as I think I'm the only who's voted to keep the mega-threads so far, I'd be willing to relent and back individual threads on one condition
40 NIKV69 : That is not going to happen. What I don't get is that you don't have to open a thread if you don't want to. Just ignore them and move on to the next
41 Walter2222 : Individual threads! Best regards, Walter
42 StealthZ : I already voted so in fairness I won't repeat that. How about not having rules but treat each other as grown ups and let common sense have a go. Rules
43 Jorge1812 : Correct but many will loose the fun reading this forum if the 15 threads are the same use- and senseless pre-/postscreening threrads - before the meg
44 Silver1SWA : Heh...at least the forum would show signs of life! Most of the time the only thing new when I check the forum is the pre/post-screen threads. If we h
45 UnattendedBag : mega-threads
46 NIKV69 : So people trying to learn is senseless and useless? What a disappointing statement. Unfortunately in my 5 years here I have suffered through the thre
47 Jorge1812 : Is it not and I'm sure you know that I don't think so. Unfortunately I can't find my old posts and threads where the problem was discussed about the
48 BmiBaby737 : Individual Threads I used to open up various help topics and see if I could lend a hand with advice or a quick edit, but since these mega threads star
49 Moderators : As this is a poll an update is due and after a quick review the following; Undecided: 4 Mega: 3 Individual: 27 The balance being the OP and other post
50 Chukcha : Individual threads - with the rejection reason(s) stated in the thread's title. Not just "Help me - I got a rejection", but "Rejection - level, colour
51 EZEIZA : I agree this is the way to go, with interaction between crew and users, and I hope it stays this way, because not that long ago there was little or n
52 Nwc100 : Individual threads Would like to see this in a sub forum though, For someone like me who has no pictures here yet, it would make the most sense it wou
53 Codeshare : First of all ask yourselves WHY are these threads existing. :-| Individual posts would make sense only on a phtographer vs screeners sense, ie. screen
54 Javibi : Same opinion here. j
55 Jorge1812 : Also a lot votes for an extra forum. georg
56 Spencer : One thing comes to mind looking at the amount of responses here, and that is all of you will be giving advice if and when individual threads are reins
57 StealthZ : Because it is a forum and discussion is good. Because it is photography and it is subjective, always has been, hopefully always will be. Cheers
58 Spencer : Chris (StealthZ), of course, you're right. But my point is not everyone posting here will give their input, so reinstating individual threads will res
59 Philthy : individual threads ...but there's got to be a better way to do it...
60 EZEIZA : For the photog showing their picture asking for advice, the mega threads are near to usless becuause they get lost in the crowd. At least in the indi
61 SFO2SVO : Individual threads Also support ideas of : -requiring specific question - especially in post-screening -limiting the number of photos per member -not
62 Conoramoia : ]individual threads for me it didnt matter until my internet browser stoped loading other tabs when the ''mega-threads'' became over 100 replies or th
63 Moderators : Dear Photographers We would like to thank you for your recent feedback and it is clear that individual threads are the way forward. Some have asked fo
64 Post contains links Moderators : Hello everybody, the old "mega- threads" are history. The individual threads are allowed now. For more details please refer to this thread: http://www
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