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Slide Dupes...  
User currently offlineChris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 10
Posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1185 times:

Just curious, dont know if this has been covered before, but i went to get a few slide duplicates made and i got them back yesterday... the quality of the dupes, particularly grain, is considerably worse than the original...

i have only once or twice made slide dupes and never noticed a difference.. (never really looked either)... the slides were originally shot on Provia (if that matters)

so im wondering if this is normal, or my photo lab sucks...

thanks


CHRIS

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFredrik Hjort From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

In general (except from digital material maybe) everything that is transfered from an original to a copy, no matter what medium, is reduced in quality. For example if you record something on one VHS and then copy it to another VHS cassette and another one and so on, the quality will get worse every time you copy it.
Same thing with slides.

However, everything can be done better or worse - and maybe you didn't notice the small change in quality before, but the last one wasn't as good done as the first ones (or the original didn't have the same high quality) and you therefore noticed it.

/Fredrik


User currently offlineJderden777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1758 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1118 times:

Chris,
I got a dupe made a while back when some guy asked me for a slide of the Bush*Cheney 757...i took the slide to the photo shop and got a dupe made, but i got them both back and the slides both had a thick light blue/gray line across the top of the slide...i didn't really look at the graininess, but it seems like i remember it being comparable to the original...here's the shot


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Jonathan Derden



i was pretty pissed...so now i'm not too keen on getting dupe slides made



"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
User currently offlineChris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1102 times:

crap... how do you send slides to magazines, etc..? do you guys send the original?? i'd be scared to death to send the original-- just letting it leave my control would freak me out..


CHRIS <------(big panzy)


User currently offlineNscaler From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 243 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1100 times:

For the majority of shots that I've sent to mags and other publications, I usuallly have shot "in camera dupes". I never shoot just one shot of anything, regardless of what it is - I always shoot at least 2 in camera. So sending the originals have never been a problem for me, and I have always recieved them back in the same condition that they were sent. Maybe I'm just lucky; but even if they were to get lost in the mail, I still have a second "set" back at home.

I'd love to hear the "pros" opinion on this - Joe, Thomas, Michael, etc.

Saul
PHX/TUS


User currently offlineRindt From Germany, joined May 2000, 930 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1100 times:

Chris,

This is why us slide-traders shoot rolls upon rolls on one subject... so we have MANY originals. I won't accept a dupe...

As for sending original "one-off" slides, both Airways and Airliners are very trustworthy magazines. (John Wegg, Jon Proctor respectively). I'm more worried about the postal system...

-Rob




What other people think of you is none of your business!
User currently offlineFlpuck6 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2123 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

Chris--

I've sent in a few slides and some of them are returned to me. They have been returned either at the cost of the magazine or I have included a self addressed stamped envelope. It's not like the magazine lost anything by not holding on to my slides. I am not adamant about getting published. Besides, I'm just a student. I do, however, like Rob said, take more than a few frames of each subject. I don't go all out and shoot three rolls of something but 10-12 frames of something good will do it for me. That way I can keep one or two frames I like and do whatever with the rest.

-Chris (the other one!)



Bonjour Chef!
User currently offlineChris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1093 times:

I'm more worried about the postal system

yeah, same here  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

anyway, i guess my problem is i have an older canon that takes its sweet time reloading for a new shot; it's anything but rapid-fire... i have a few nice "newer" lenses that help me get good results, but typically when im shooting with some other people, i only get about 2-3 shots max. of one aircraft, whereas they can usually nail 6+...

It's good and bad; it helps me plan for a specific shot and take one shot at it, but then of course on the flip side, i really only get that one shot! (it saves me $$ on film i guess too)

whatever... that had nothing to do with the topic... sorry... im bogged down from christmas shopping... i swear, in hell they have JCPenny, LSAyres and its ALWAYS christmas...


blehhh


CHRIS


User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1064 times:

As others have said, the best dup is the extra frame you take when you have the chance. Good dups from slides can be done, but to get it done right, you will need to go to a pro lab and pay significantly for the service.

If you are planning to do a lot of duplication, it may be worth investing in a slide duplicator - a proper one consists of a bellows unit, slide holder and flash system. This allows you to produce exact 1:1 reproductions - or even crop slightly. The flash unit is used in two ways - firstly, to slightly pre-fog the exposure. This is necessary to avoid excessive build up of contrats (the reason most cheapy dups are crap), and secondly to provide even lighting for the actual image. Good dups can be done, but you'll need to trial and error to get the technique right.

Cheers,

Colin




Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineF27 From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1053 times:

We do our own dupes if need be but most of the time i do what rob does just shoot rolls and rolls of chrome i have also started converting old slides to prints. Our slide duplicator is like a zoom lens not the older type of belows

User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1060 times:

>>I'd love to hear the "pros" opinion on this - Joe, Thomas, Michael, etc.

Saul,

Plain and simple (as mentioned) ... just shoot plenty of in-camera dupes. If you think it's a great shot (should you be shooting it if it's not?) shoot a dupe, then shoot another dupe to be sure and another if you can afford the film. If it's something really rare or if you trade 50mm side-ons...well, be prepared with lots of film  Smile

Michael


User currently offlineChris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1054 times:

okay, i kinda see where this is going, and yeah, i pretty much got my question answered so this is a moot point... but im not really talking about 50mm side-on shots, often i WILL get 2 shots if its neat or rare... approach shots (especially really cool ones) are more of a one-two-shot deal... (for me anyway, like i mentioned in a previous post about my camera)

anyway, i guess the mag's can be happy with mediocre dupes for now, im too small-time to do my own dupes, and too scared to mail my originals..

thanks much for the input, much appreciated!


CHRIS


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1027 times:

I just got a dupe back from my lab where I get my slides developed and I have to admit there is no real difference to tell, so I guess it has to do something with the lab.

When it comes to dupes in the camera, 50mm and steady objects are easy to shoot, but what are you guys doing with moving objects....same thing? I guess so.

Anyway.....one remark to magazine....I am still waiting for my slides to be returned from the July issue of Airliner World.....even talked to Tony Dixon the Chief Editor a while back....still no money nor slides....I guess I have to call him again!

V.


User currently offlineJoe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1014 times:

I have to admit there is no real difference to tell, so I guess it has to do something with the lab.
-----------------------
impossible Vasco- any dupe looks worse than the original- if you look at it with a stronger loupe youll see the difference 100%.
-----------------------
Anyway.....one remark to magazine....I am still waiting for my slides to be returned from the July issue of Airliner World.....even talked to Tony Dixon the Chief Editor a while back....still no money nor slides....I guess I have to call him again!
-------------------------
Vasco, Airliner World pays now? they told me they dont pay anything for pics. I didnt know that they now pay for them. cool.

Joe


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

Joe,

if K-man is still around tell him not to take too many pics on that del.flight.....
-------------------------
the slide is gone, therefore I have no possibility to check. Will do it next time.
--------------------------
Ref: Airliner World
I had a verbal agreement with R.Moss( a guy from PHX who is writing articles for airliner world and Tony Dixon that they would pay me for the usage. Photo credit was not too my liking, nor the rest....but I guess my name is not Robbie Shaw .....nevertheless I will call him tomorrow and let you know.
---------------------------

Vasco


User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1005 times:

Yes Vasco, even with action/non-50mm ramps...I shoot plenty of in-camera dupes. Of course, the number of dupes you can shoot depends on the equipment you have.

Michael


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 992 times:

So what happens about publishing digital photos?

User currently offlineTomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 995 times:

In-camera dupes are the way to go. I have never seen a good machine-made dupe. The film used by Kodalux is a special emulsion for slide copying, and it is not capable of matching the quality of Kodachrome 25/64 or Provia in the first place. It is grainy and very contrasty. I have had some excellent dupes made by a pro lab, but it was expensive.

There are slide-coping machines available to the amateur that have internal strobes and other optimal slide-copying features. High volume is required before investing in one of those, as I think they cost around $200 USD.

Dissatisfied with machine-made dupes in the past, I used my bellows and off-camera strobe and made Kodachrome to Kodachrome dupes with my bellows slide-copying attachment (frosted glass with a slide holder, really) that were far superior to what I got from Kodalux.

If you send an original slide to a publisher, you should consider it gone forever because your chance of getting it back in the same condition while you are still a breathing, functioning human being is not good at all.About 50% of the time they will dismount the slide, which, if it is Kodachrome, means they will cut it out of the cardboard mount. The people doing this work seem to have no knowledge on how to protect your slide. You will often see it published in good shape, only to get the slide back with scratches, fingerprints and spray marks all over it.

These days, I would expect you can send most image requesters a high-quality scan. Isn't that what's going on out there? I just had an article published in the Atlantic Flyer and the photos and story were mailed to them on floppy diskette. I could have emailed the whole thing in except for my slow connection at home.

That's my take on dupes and their limited usefullness.



User currently offlineTomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 996 times:

I recently for some Elite Chrome back from Kodalux USA in plastic mounts. They seem to be pretty good quality, with plenty of writing area. Is this going to happen to Kodachrome also?

User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 988 times:

I get my K64 back in numbered plastic mounts, I think they are good.

Regards,

Staffan


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