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Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......  
User currently offlineDamien846 From UK - England, joined Dec 2006, 661 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

I use a D300 and am very happy with it...........but the D700 some people say is better ...........but why???????? Why is full frame better? (for a.net use?)

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWakeTurbulence From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

I'd say generally it is not better. I like having the crop factor for extra 'reach' in almost all situations. One thing that will be better in general on full frame is less noise at higher ISO, but I would think most aviation photographers shoot at lower ISO's anyway so that isn't an issue. It comes down to personal preference but I'd stick with the D300.
-Matt



Jetwash Images - Feel the Heat!!!
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

It is a much better camera; not only for high ISO shooting, but the processing engine, autofocus, colour rendition, viewfinder and screen are better. It also has the sensor dust removal system.

You get what you pay for.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

I forgot to add: if you photograph aircraft and nothing else, the D300 or D700 are much better cameras than you need; any old body with a decent lens is sufficient for aviation photography.

For real photography, the D700 is a joy to use.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3616 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

As someone who shoots both DX (half-frame sensor) and FX (full-frame sensor) I will tell you that the pixel quality is higher on the larger sensor.

If your budget supports a full-frame camera then buy one. If not, most will be happy with the smaller sensor.


User currently offlineStevemchey From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

WakeTurbulence, a crop factor only appears to give you a better reach, but in reality, it is more like a digital zoom. While a full frame registers all the light coming through the lens, the smaller sensor cuts off information on all sides, therefore giving you the appearance of a zoom. It's like taking a full frame picture and later cropping it in PS.

I recently upgraded to the 5D2. It certainly took a few days to get used to the full frame, but now I would never turn back. If you can afford a full frame, go for it. They are worth every penny.


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 1):
I'd say generally it is not better. I like having the crop factor for extra 'reach' in almost all situations. One thing that will be better in general on full frame is less noise at higher ISO, but I would think most aviation photographers shoot at lower ISO's anyway so that isn't an issue. It comes down to personal preference but I'd stick with the D300.
-Matt

Have you used the D700? If you have, you'll discover why it is better. It produces very clean images - the quality is beautiful. If your camera can produce clean images at high ISO settings, then you have the advantage over other camera which can not whenever conditions get dark. It doesn't automatically make you a better photographer, but it gives you more chances - and makes things a lot easier because the systems in the camera just work. The AF works well, it doesn't get confused easily - the colour quality and accuracy seems to be very good. It's a superb camera.

The crop factor doesn't provide extra reach - it's simply a crop, with a narrower angle of view. It doesn't help quality either. Even worse, it means that lenses don't perform as they should. You end up with 300mm lenses having a view angle of something like a 450mm, etc. But worse, if you look at lenses like the new 14-24mm Zoom Nikkor, on a 24x16mm body, you lose the usefulness of that lens. Same with the 24-70mm Zoom Nikkor.

Quoting Damien846 (Thread starter):
I use a D300 and am very happy with it...........but the D700 some people say is better ...........but why???????? Why is full frame better? (for a.net use?)

If you were upgrading, I'd recommend keeping the D300 and having the D700 as well. That brings some other nice little benefits (like Nikon Professional Services). In Australia, if you have two pro-grade bodies (along with some other minor prerequisites) you can join.

Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
autofocus,

I thought D300, D700, D3, D3x all used Multicam 3500 autofocus system. D700 does have sensor cleaning as you say (D3 does not). The 35mm cameras are considerably better when ambient light becomes poor. You can crank up the ISO with little worry of noise.

[Edited 2009-04-25 18:23:33]

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3563 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Just having two Pro bodies does not mean you can join Nikon Professional Services.

While Canon allows anyone to join theirs, Nikon's NPS is reserved for true professionals.

You can read more here:

Nikon Professional Services is available only to bona-fide, FULL-TIME professional photographers. There are absolutely no costs involved in joining NPS, only important benefits designed to help you.
To become a member:

* Write a letter of introduction to Nikon Professional Services (see address below) on your letterhead (or your company's stationery).
* Tell us about your photography and request an invitation to join.
* You will need to meet the qualifying requirements below after you receive your application.

To qualify:

* NPS Sponsor (existing member to verify that you are a full-time photographer)
* Current Tear Sheets (published within the last 12 months)
* Ownership of a minimum of 2 Nikon Professional Bodies and 3 Nikkor or DX Nikkor lenses


http://www.nikonpro.com/AboutNPS.aspx


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Just having two Pro bodies does not mean you can join Nikon Professional Services.

I realise that - and I did mention other prerequisites (ie, read the fine print).

I didn't realise that other countries had more strict requirements (the ones on that site are really different). I was speaking on advice I'd had from one of our photographers that is part of it who was trying to get me to join up. Where I work, we do have a full time photography team (we are part of the same team) using mainly Nikon gear. I haven't done anything about it yet.

It looks like our arm of NPS / NPS Lite might be aimed at getting people to buy their gear through the local official distributors, rather than abroad.

[Edited 2009-04-25 22:32:13]

[Edited 2009-04-25 22:35:31]

User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3529 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 6):
The crop factor doesn't provide extra reach - it's simply a crop, with a narrower angle of view. It doesn't help quality either. Even worse, it means that lenses don't perform as they should. You end up with 300mm lenses having a view angle of something like a 450mm, etc. But worse, if you look at lenses like the new 14-24mm Zoom Nikkor, on a 24x16mm body, you lose the usefulness of that lens. Same with the 24-70mm Zoom Nikkor.

This is true. I have the Tokina 12-24 which is excellent for DX cameras. I did have a few days with the 14-24 mounted on the D300. Quality is excellent, but I'd rather have this lens with an FX camera.

KS/codeshare



How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3509 times:



Quoting Stevemchey (Reply 5):
a crop factor only appears to give you a better reach, but in reality, it is more like a digital zoom. While a full frame registers all the light coming through the lens, the smaller sensor cuts off information on all sides, therefore giving you the appearance of a zoom. It's like taking a full frame picture and later cropping it in PS.

This is absolutely right, but very many people do not understand it. I have given up trying to explain it in this forum.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3495 times:
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Quoting Viv (Reply 10):
This is absolutely right, but very many people do not understand it. I have given up trying to explain it in this forum.

It's still useful. I for one wouldnt want a fullframe camera because my shooting is geared towards the long ranges, and yes I crop a lot too even on the crop camera so I can only imagine how much I'd have to crop on a fullframe camera.

I'd like a 5D as well for other types of photography but I would not trade it my 40D (and pay a little premium Wink ) for one.

Each his own I guess. If you want a compromise go with the 1.3 crop bodies, not sure what they are called in Nikon land Smile

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineJavibi From Spain, joined Oct 2004, 1371 posts, RR: 41
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3476 times:



Quoting Stevemchey (Reply 5):
It's like taking a full frame picture and later cropping it in PS

That is right, but for people to have the full picture (pun intended) pixel density has to be taken into account when deciding if a FF or APS sensor is the way to go.

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...Camera_System/pixel_density_01.htm

j



"Be prepared to engage in constructive debate". Are YOU prepared?
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3422 times:

A full-frame will always produce a finer, crisper image in my opinion. Like others have said, my 70-200 F4 L on something like a 5D wouldn't perform exactly as it was intended. Having said that, I'm more than happy with my (ageing) 30D and would perhaps a lot of the time find a full-framer a little awkward for what I do.

Karl


User currently offlineStevemchey From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3415 times:

Karl, small correction: A 70-200 on a 5D works exactly as intended. On a 30D it gives you the illusion of a zoom. This becomes especially clear when you move to wide angle. The crop factor has a real limitation there.

In the end it always comes down to what you feel comfortable with. If all you do is airline photography and get the shots you want, there is really no reason to go full frame.


User currently offlineTimdegroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3413 times:
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Quoting Stevemchey (Reply 14):
The crop factor has a real limitation there.

Maybe a few years ago but with todays wideangles designed for crop cameras that is not an issue anymore

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3398 times:

Sorry, typo - I meant my 70-200 F4 L on my 30D doesn't perform as intended, however for me it performs well enough.

Karl


User currently offlineAlevik From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 1026 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3339 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

The image quality on my D3 and D3X are superior to my D2Xs even when cropped to approximate the same focal lengths. I haven't changed my longest lens (400mm) and spot from the same locations.

I think this is due to the pixel quality as Royal mentioned previously.



Improvise, adapt, overcome.
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3326 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I still think the Nikon D2Xs is the ultimate DX camera. I hope to have one some day.

User currently offlineAlevik From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 1026 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3314 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Cue the violins..............


Improvise, adapt, overcome.
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