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Adding Value To The Database...  
User currently offlineJetTrader From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 586 posts, RR: 11
Posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3017 times:



Hi everyone,

Something to think about and discuss.

Do any of you feel that there is an increasing tendency for photographers to enter into some sort of competition to see who can upload the most shots from any one shoot (or location) the quickest?

Recently there have been many shots uploaded from some locations that do little more than increase the individual photographers total number of shots. Indeed it seems there are some photographers who are obsessed with adding as manyshots as they can on an almost daily basis.

I would question whether this is adding any real value to this database...or does it serve only to hide the really interesting stuff beneath a pile of "seen it all before"?

Maybe it's the increasing use of digital cameras. Certainly this affords photographers the facility to take many more shots without being in the least bit discriminating as to what they shoot or what they then choose to painstakingly scan and upload.

I think it's probably true to say that slide shooters will take some time to sift through their slides and then decide to scan and upload only those they think will be of most interest to visitors to this site, or are of exceptional quality.

From comments I read in this forum I believe there are others who feel the same way.

Is it not time that we collectively took a step backwards and looked long and hard at what we upload here, and upload not for our own selfish, competitive ends (come on guys...enough willy waving*), but begin to be a little more discerning and to seek to upload shots that add real value to the database.

Regards,
Dean

* willy waving - anagram. between males, competitive nature.  Wink/being sarcastic




Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHias From Germany, joined Sep 2000, 349 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Hi Dean,

I have to say you hit the nail. This is just the same what I think about that. Some guys here are just trying to upload as many shots they have, not regarding how many shots of this airline/aircraft are already in the database.

In another thread I read that a guy was uploading almost every single shot he has, so if a company is looking for a particular aircraft he will have the best chances to make the money out of it. I think this is not the thing this database is for.

It is boring to see every day an American MD80 or a Qantas B737 or an Austrian MD80. There should be much more variety. Certainly here are also some reg collectors and they have also the right to find/upload every single reg or the American MD80s, but for, I think, most of us, it is boring.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

Mathias
www.spotter.de.vu
mathias.henig@gmx.de


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5579 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2809 times:
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Hi all

I tend to agree with Dean.

Having the D30 and the 2 Microdrives it would be so easy for me to add my 600+ images from Singapore. I have chosen not to do this. Maybe 3 or 4 at a time but never more in one upload.

Possibly over time I will add a lot more but I will also weed out a lot.

I still abide by the sames rules as when I used print film.....upload the ones I think look good and think long and hard about the ones that I am not sure about.

I probably have about 7 shots of this aircraft on the move:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Gary Watt


All look pretty good but I chose to add only the one so far. I might push it to 2 or 3 over a space of time.

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


User currently offlineTguse From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

I have no problem with uploading one pic of every aircraft you shoot...even if this results in loads of American MD80s or Lufthansa B737s or so on.

But I am sick of people who upload up to 10 shots of the same aircraft at the same day at the same place ...and sometimes in really bad conditions.

My suggestion:
If you uploaded a pic of an aircraft and you get a better pic later: use the re-upload function (and correct the database enty if necessary)

Regards,
Torben
Hamburg, Germany


User currently offlineDa fwog From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 867 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Hmmm. I find that now I'm shooting digital I actually take a much more diverse range of pics than before, and there are an awful lot of shots I have that are technically fine, but I choose not to upload. Why? Because I'm becoming more interested in the variety of things I can get than the number of pictures.

I'm not completely convinced that digital cameras are the main cause of this - just have a look at the output of Gary, Andrew, Jason, Colin, Paul & myself for example, and see how many gratuitous "willy-waving" shots there are. Not too many, I think.


User currently offlineCraigy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

I agree too. I wouldn't upload, for example, a BA shuttle unless it was a new reg, shot from a very interesting angle or, like the shot above, was just sickeningly good  Smile

I prefer to keep the ordinary run of the mill shots to myself and just upload the ones that I hope others will enjoy. There are plenty of good aircraft movements databases around, without A.net becoming one too.....

Craig.


User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

I thought the re-upload function was only for rescans and not for a completely new photo of the same a/c???

Is it ok to upload new photos 'over' old ones??

Thanks,

Staffan


User currently offlineKingWide From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 838 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2771 times:

Whilst I do try to hold off uploading everything, I do have half an eye on covering off the reg numbers of the various fleets.

You never know when someone might want a shot of a particular aircraft so it seems wise to make sure you've covered most of them just in case.

Bear in mind as well that to me, because I haven't been doing this that long, almost everything I shoot is exciting. I must confess to getting a bit bored with BA 7n7 shots but everything else is new to me. I therefore figure that other people might like to see them too.

J



Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
User currently offlineTguse From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Staffan,
you are right.

But this is a suggestion of using it a new way.

Outside the digital world:
If I get a better shot of an aircraft I will replace the slide in my collection and not add the new slide...

Regards,
Torben


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5579 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2762 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi all

Quality v Quantity..........I know what I would choose.

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Torben,
I think that sounds as a good idea, perhaps this is something that can be implemented?

This would certainly increase the quality of the whole database.

Regards,

Staffan


User currently offlineJetTrader From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 586 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2745 times:


"I'm not completely convinced that digital cameras are the main cause of this - just have a look at the output of Gary, Andrew, Jason, Colin, Paul & myself for example, and see how many gratuitous "willy-waving" shots there are. Not too many, I think."

Ok...

Gary...no problem.
Andrew (I assume Hunt)...no problem.
Colin...(Ckw or Abbott)...either way, no problem.
Paul (I assume Dopson)...no problem.

But check this out...


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Sheldon



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Sheldon



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Jason Taperell



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Sheldon



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Sheldon



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Jason Taperell



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Sheldon



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Sheldon



Mmmmm...so who's got the biggest one then guys?

Much of a much me thinks...same day...same location...same composition...yet 6 from one photographer...

Willy waving...I think so.
Value...open to debate.

Regards,
Dean




Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2743 times:

Deans obviously been looking at my LHR shots Big grin

To go along with what Gary has said I took 325 pictures on Sunday and have uploaded 40ish. I look for new registrations / aircraft first and then for some nice looking shots of exsisting aircraft.

When i first got the S1 i would upload any old shot (some say i still do!) well it was new then but I now have a better idea of what im and Airliners are looking for. When I was at LHR with Gary and Dean I took nearly 1400 shots but i think only 5-6 are on Airliners.

regards

PAul


User currently offlineJetTrader From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 586 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2743 times:


PS - resigned to having all my shots bounced in future for "diss-ing" at least one screener... Wink/being sarcastic



Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2742 times:

I'm very much in favour of replacing an old shot of a subject with a better example. I would rather some of my older uploads were not seen at all! As it is, I will tend to upload a better shot of a plane even if I have one in the database as I'd rather people see the best and worst I can produce rather than just the worst!

I also think more time should be spent on rescanning old shots - I had started a campaign of doing this until Johan raised the print sales thing - since this may affect the optimum sizing of the upload, I've put this on pause until more info is available.

I think more could be done to promote re-uploading. The problem is once an item is in the system it quickly becomes buried and is only found by chance or a specific search - a study of almost any pic's hit rate curve will show this to be the case. So one might cynically ask if its worth the effort of reloading?

Would a "recently improved" section be useful? I think this would
a) provide an incentive to everyone to improve their existing work
b) perhaps redirect some effort from producing safe but dull new shots into improving the quality of the dbase
c) Many of our personal favorites are long since buried away - it would be a way of showing these golden oldies to our newer visitors.

Actually, I see no problem in treating a reload like a new pic, ie. the submission date is changed to the reload date.

As to repetitive 7?7s etc. - it does seem to be what our viewers want to see. We all know that a UA 747 is going to get many more hits than many rarer subjects (photo quality being equal). I don't understand this - I'm always looking for pics of things I haven't seen before! - but it does seem to be the case, so there is an argument for providing what the punters want.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2750 times:

Well guys,

The quality v quantity arguement doesn't work as the screeners are supposed to ensure that only quality gets uploaded.

As for loads of pics, well .. if they want to upload them and they get uploaded, what's the worry? You don't need to look at them!  Laugh out loud


VH-ADG (who has uploaded ALL of her 36 pictures into the database ... "well, I did upload more but they got rejected  Laugh out loud")


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5579 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2742 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi all

Didn't think it would take long before ADG added a VALUABLE contribution Big grin

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland

Hey......Bronwyn....where are your QF shots ??


User currently offlineKingWide From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 838 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2728 times:

Dean,

I figured you were sniping at me when I first saw the post however I decided to wait until the 'muzzle flash' gave away your position.

Right, onto the defence.

That's the first time I've ever been to that particular spot. Chris was kind enough to take me over on Saturday and we were inevitably going to end up shooting similar shots. I think it would be fair to say I have a dupe of every shot Chris took and vice versa. We shot a combined total of about 250 frames. Chris uploaded some stuff first and the first thing I did was look at his stuff and make sure I didn't upload an identical shot to his. [Unfortunately I missed one of the queue dupes]. I even went to the trouble of clarifying what Chris had in the queue by e-mail to make sure there was no risk of duping anything else.

Now I've never shot stuff there before and it all looks new and fresh to me. I think the UA 777 shots, both Chris' and mine, are great shots and examining the hits they've received so far [in my case 105 hits since upload an hour or so ago] would bear out the assertion that the users of the site think so to.

So it's the same queue, so what? The 27L approaches [with some exceptions] are usually shot from the same Myrtle Avenue field, are you suggesting we shouldn't upload these shots because it's the same boring spot?

The shots aren't the same and, to the best of my knowledge the others Chris or I upload won't be the same because we'll bloody well make sure they're not.

I happen to have on my hard disk a set of shots I'm proud of [like I say it's completely new to me]. I've taken the best, checked the db and discarded the dupes, and I've uploaded them for the users of the site to see. I don't actually care what the photographers on the site think of them, you're not my target market. Sure it's nice to be well regarded by your peers but really Dean, if you think I'm a wanker who's obsessed with out-Sheldoning Sheldon then I couldn't care less.

J



Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
User currently offlineJetTrader From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 586 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2719 times:


Whoa! Jason...chill out.

Not sniping at you...I believe I am record here as saying your stuff is bloody good (ref MAN 747 post).

Can't be bothered to write more...said my bit...but I still love your stuff Jason.

Cheers,
Dean

PS - I only mentioned willy waving...not the 'W' word... Wink/being sarcastic







Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
User currently offlineJetTrader From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 586 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2718 times:

So Jason...does this mean I won't be getting a Christmas card then... Sad



Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

What I find interesting about those shots is that they are - different. Same location, same time, same D30, same lens? but Chris's and Jason's are distinctly different in appearance, presumably due to camera settings. Just goes to show even in an all digital world there is still room for photographer's interpretation.

And if I remember correctly, it was a bit cold for anyone to be waving willies that afternoon  Smile

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineAndyhunt From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1306 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Wow............hot topic!

I agree with Gary, quality, not quantity. Still, everybody is different, and Johan + Screeners can upload what they see fit. You choose what you want to submit, Johan and the Screeners choose what passes. If you don't like it, don't look at it. I personally have no issue with Jason or Chris' shots. Think that they are all great.

Each to their own, methinks.

Andrew (with W firmly in pants!) Big grin



Full frame always beats post processing
User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

Dean - how about yours and Garys shots at LHR last summer? I've seen two or three that look identical from you too Big grin.

Those que shots were great, i think alot of people really liked them.

I have seem some people upload large amounts of shots in one go, whereas i'd prefer maybe 5 or 6 at a time.

Regards

Dan


User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (13 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

I never thought it would happen that someone has to explain (not exactly the right word but excuse is wrong also) why he uploads pictures.
I think the visitors of the site should be the ones who judge if they like pictures or not. If you look through the recent uploads just take a look at the ones you like and skip the ones you dont like. That shouldnt be that difficult?
Just my 2 "Groschen" which will be very soon 0,15 cents.
Peter



-
User currently offline9A-CRO From Croatia, joined Jun 2000, 1574 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (13 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2648 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

I certainly try to upload shots which are uncommon,
I have only 73 photos here and about 20-30% of these were or still are the only photos of particular acft in the database (check my profile)





Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Tomislav Muic




When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
25 Post contains images JetTrader : My shots...the same (or almost the same) as Gary's...? In my dreams!!! He is The Master
26 Da fwog : How naive I must be - I read the 1st post in all innocence and it never occurred to me that a swipe was being taken at me. I didn't really want to get
27 Post contains links and images KingWide : Click for large versionPhoto © Dean Barnes Click for large versionPhoto © Dean Barnes Click for large versionPhoto © Dean Barnes Click
28 Jan Mogren : The above post speaks for itself... /JM
29 Post contains images Ghost77 : I go with Kingwide and JM! Rich APM
30 Thomasphoto60 : Where is Vasco, Mark G, Jan and Tommy Mogren, Glen Alderton and Jason Milligan ? Now these guys will search for diffrent perspectives and angles. Fran
31 Granite : Hi all Maybe it's an English thing, but can anyone tell a Northern Scottish guy what this means?? Thanks Gary Watt Aberdeen, Scotland (Hoots man the n
32 Granite : Hi all EGGD and DaFwog......please keep my name out of your posts.....please. Regards Gary Watt Aberdeen, Scotland
33 Post contains images Glenn : Hey Thomasphoto, You mentioned my name I don't see that too often. But nothing I have uploaded recently impressed you Oh well, time to throw my camera
34 Thomasphoto60 : Glen, You indeed have some very stunning shots, perhaps I missed over a few since I rarely look at the military and corporate/civil shots. Hell, I put
35 Post contains links and images Cathay111 : Thomas! You are a hard one to please! What about these ones added in the last few days? I've seen heaps of brilliant shots uploaded recently, and they
36 Thomasphoto60 : I will give Sven's TMA 707, Frank's 747 and construction equipment and Glen's QF '47 a big thumbs up! Everything else, well nice but no show stoppers!
37 Post contains links and images EDIpic : Hi Dean.. I'm still a bit confused with your post. You also have a digi-cam: eg: Click for large versionPhoto © Dean Barnes I recall this shot wa
38 Granite : Hi all Decided to archive thread after a few recommendations. Regards Gary Watt Aberdeen, Scotland
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