JakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1316 times:
I'd actually re-title the thread, 'That's art, not photography'.......
The term 'spotting' I usually apply to the hobby of taking aircraft registrations with the aid of bin's or a 'scope. Photography involves getting into a carefully-planned position and blasting away.
Spotters of course prefer a distant but general view of the field whereas photog's tend to get closer but often miss what's going on in other corners of the deck.
But I see what you're saying - good and carefully captured creatives beginning to break through in increasing numbers.
RonS From United States, joined Feb 2009, 419 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1307 times:
Thanks Spencer:
Funny thing was I was thinking about you on Saturday actually. I tried to get a shot of Air France on an extended final with Air One turning a base to final in the distance behind it. I was thinking, I would love to get a Spencer Wilmot "final" shot!
There are so many unique and talented photographers here on Anet.
Quoting Conoramoia (Reply 1): It's nice to see a.net excepting probably the best type of photos IMO.
Yes, I agree, credit to the screeners too is deserved.
I'm on the run now, but would like to add a couple of recent ones to your "photography" category:
Spencer From United Kingdom (England), joined Apr 2004, 1141 posts, RR: 26 Reply 4, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1298 times:
Quoting RonS (Reply 3): I would love to get a Spencer Wilmot "final" shot!
Speechless, Ronny. That to me is quite the achievement for another photog to even think of my work. Big thanks man! I didn't think people appreciated them anymore (the ILS app shots) due to the lack of views it's received. But it won't put me off from uploading because I love them! My aim is to get 2 A380s on the ILS which might take some time but it will be doable in the near future.
Spence.
MidEx216 From United States, joined Jun 2005, 579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1267 times:
I've said that there seem to be lull periods, and also peak periods, for coming here to A.net and seeing fantastic photos. These times can't be predicted, but I'd say this is a good fall for aviation photography. I've been seeing a lot of really incredible shots lately, even though they've been evenly mixed with cabin shots
Cpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 1597 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1188 times:
It's the images of Ronald J Stella with those beautiful light conditions that are the ones I'm most frequently looking at. Very impressive.
Kevin Scott's F15 image is another of the ones I like, and I try for images like that when conditions allow. I only ever managed one like that, but it wasn't as striking.
HrtsfldHomeboy From United States, joined Oct 2007, 8 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1044 times:
I'm tempted to say:
Those should have all been rejected. None of them are centered and the aircraft is too far away. They violate the standards set forth in the REJECTION GUIDE that is posted for all to see and follow: http://www.airliners.net/faq/rejection_reasons.php
Yet, I enjoy photos like the ones above! I'd like to see more like them!
A decision needs to be made by the staff upstairs. Is this a photography website or a database website? And if it's gonna be both, well, then I think a new policy on MOTIVE should be written. (As "photography" is often flagged under the MOTIVE rejection)
Spiderguy252 From India, joined Feb 2009, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1034 times:
Quoting HrtsfldHomeboy (Reply 9): A decision needs to be made by the staff upstairs. Is this a photography website or a database website? And if it's gonna be both, well, then I think a new policy on MOTIVE should be written. (As "photography" is often flagged under the MOTIVE rejection)
JakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1031 times:
Quoting HrtsfldHomeboy (Reply 9): A decision needs to be made by the staff upstairs. Is this a photography website or a database website? And if it's gonna be both, well, then I think a new policy on MOTIVE should be written. (As "photography" is often flagged under the MOTIVE rejection)
Your statements echo the thoughts of many and you've said what everyone is thinking. So we're told change is on the way but to what extent we can only wait and see.
If managed efficiently and new policies were introduced there is no reason why this site can't be both a database (for documenting, profiling and research - more geared towards enthusiasts) and a photography gallery (geared towards photographers of all backgrounds and those who consider photography art). This way casual visitor and hardcore spotter/enthusiast are catered for equally. We've already seen a shift in viewing patterns on the front page, which suggests more casual visitors (and that's not saying we now have less enthusiasts) who wish to look at 'eye-candy' as opposed to 'boring' side-ons of the same 'planes. So we're already getting those who view A.net as a art gallery.
RonS From United States, joined Feb 2009, 419 posts, RR: 21 Reply 12, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1021 times:
Dear Hrtsfield:
I'm sorry but you are wrong, and it is not my opinion, it is written clear and concisely right here. I urge you to read the rejection guide that you linked to.
Rejection Guide:
"In this case the main object is situated in the left of the frame. The space on the left is occupied by the jetwash, a good enough secondary object for framing it this way.
Even if you have something of interest in the image that makes you crop it off-centre we still reserve the right to reject it if we do not think the secondary object is of sufficient interest. Much like our motive rejection, centered rejections can contain an element of subjectivity. Especially since the relaxation of our motive rules we are likely to accept off-centre crops if it it properly motivated. For the 'classic' shots or sideshots above the normal centering rules still apply."
Pretty clear. Great photo by the way
Quoting JakTrax (Reply 11): Your statements echo the thoughts of many and you've said what everyone is thinking
Not everyone Karl.
Thanks
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
RonS From United States, joined Feb 2009, 419 posts, RR: 21 Reply 13, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1016 times:
I really should be complete though. Just some more easy reading:
"Below are a few examples from our database where distance does not apply even though the aircraft is somewhat small in frame. We feel the following are good examples of images where the aircraft is small in frame but properly motivated so that it does not result in a distance rejection."
TimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3655 posts, RR: 78 Reply 14, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1005 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Thanks Ron, no need for me to explain now.
Think that from the many artsy shots we have seen lately it's clear that we allow deviation from the rules when the shot works. Think our rules in the rejection guide reflect that to an extent
Clickhappy From United States, joined Sep 2001, 8913 posts, RR: 81 Reply 15, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 996 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
While the OP has linked to some very nice shots, I don't think that a loosening of the "creative rules" has anything to do with them being accepted. Such shots have always been welcome here.
Surely you must think like that or your lovely IB over the cruise ship wouldn't be here? Everyone I've spoken to recently would like to see some motive issues relaxed. There are still some very nice images falling foul of the rules don'r forget - images which have a place on the 'net's premier aviation site.
As being discussed in another thread, it isn't just a 'database' documenting airlines and their equipment any more.
TimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3655 posts, RR: 78 Reply 17, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 958 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting JakTrax (Reply 16): There are still some very nice images falling foul of the rules don'r forget - images which have a place on the 'net's premier aviation site.
In your opinion Karl. In the end it's the opinion of the "site" that counts. We are not a free for all, although some seem to think they have a natural right to have their pics accepted here.
I've got a lot of stuff I wont even upload here because I know it would be rejected. Big deal, I'll upload it elsewhere.
JakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 951 times:
Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 17): although some seem to think they have a natural right to have their pics accepted here
Well I hope I'm discounted from that statement.....
It's no good pussy-footing around the fact that, although things are improving, A.net doesn't yet cater for every group of aviation enthusiast or casual viewer. It's not just my opinion - it's the opinion of many here in the forum and also of the many big names who've left.
I agree, it's not easy to change things overnight, but you yourself Tim have said change is afoot. Surely if my opinion was isolated and I was the sole one change wouldn't be necessary?
I don't want to hijack this thread and look forward to seeing more of what folks here 'like to open up'. But the fact remains that the current rules are still somewhat restrictive. Hopefully in time it'll be addressed and we'll see even more great shots like the ones we see here.
AAGOLD From United States, joined Nov 2002, 511 posts, RR: 56 Reply 19, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 933 times:
Spence hit the nail on the head ... that's photography and not just spotting. To be able to capture such images indicates a level of achievement for the photographer. Their ability to see beyond the ordinary and to perservere against the odds to get the photo. Do you have any idea how many hours I've wasted trying to get a particular shot and never achieved it? Countless hours. But when you come home with that shot, like the ones in this thread, you have such a feeling of accomplishment.
Congratulations to all the photographers whose photos appear here. Keep up the good work, and Spence thanks for starting such a thread to recognize some of the best pictures on Anet.
RonS From United States, joined Feb 2009, 419 posts, RR: 21 Reply 20, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 926 times:
Quoting JakTrax (Reply 11): Quoting HrtsfldHomeboy (Reply 9):
A decision needs to be made by the staff upstairs. Is this a photography website or a database website? And if it's gonna be both, well, then I think a new policy on MOTIVE should be written. (As "photography" is often flagged under the MOTIVE rejection)
Your statements echo the thoughts of many and you've said what everyone is thinking.
Quoting JakTrax (Reply 16): Quoting RonS (Reply 12):
Not everyone Karl
Surely you must think like that or your lovely IB over the cruise ship wouldn't be here?
Sorry, gets confusing, but you indicated that's what "everyone is thinking" to a statement by Hrtsfld that "A decision needs to be made by the staff upstairs. Is this a photography website or a database website?"
My response is "Not everyone Karl"
Because it can be both, in my opinion and from the interpretation I get from reading the rejection guide. The rejection guide that he was quoting clearly has off center and distance along with centered and closeup, both are well represented. I'm simply focusing on the issue brought forth above and not going to drift off into any other tangents or other issues, if that is where you were going.
So I have one photo the other day that meets the criteria in the rejection guide, as do the others. And if you consider it photography or artsy fartsy, so be it. Tomorrow I'm looking forward to having screened a shot mostly to record a particular event in the database, and it's not really photography geared, simply a record. I shoot both, enjoy both and get lucky sometimes
If you only meant to quote Hrtsfld's last sentence that a new policy should be written for Motive, that I can understand...but you quoted the whole thing. But why he brought it up here, when it is so obvious from reading, that it is just not applicable, I can't understand. So IMO you quoted something that was based on an incorrect statement by Hrtsfld and said everyone was of like mind. I technically don't disagree with you in regards to Motive issues, but that has nothing to do with the photos above, because they all meet Motive criteria. Separate issue.
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
Spencer From United Kingdom (England), joined Apr 2004, 1141 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 923 times:
Quoting AAGOLD (Reply 19): Keep up the good work, and Spence thanks for starting such a thread to recognize some of the best pictures on Anet.
You know Art, one of the things I noticed in some of those photographs was this, they had minor flaws, (slightly soft, minor noise issues, similar things). And all those "flaws" are such due to the nature of the image, the time and weather. Does it make them any less perfect than a perfect side-on, perfectly exposed? Haha, I'd sure as hell rather have the above selection in my personal library than nearly any side-on.
Like you said Art, many many wasted hours trying to get an idea down. And they seldom work out the way I've planned.
I'll take one of my own to illustrate this....
I was actually close to packing up and calling it a day shortly before this one came in. (Glad I didn't!). It was only when I saw the sunrays emitting outwards that I realised the shot. I didn't plan it and if I had done I doubt I would've done it the same way. Luck I guess.
Neither of the above, IMO, are that creative? They're a little different, slightly distant. But the backgrounds are what make them quite nice, I'd say. These were accepted quite a long time ago now, possibly before the creative ruling was implemented. So, I actually believe RonS' IBE photograph was simply uploaded because he wanted to, not to have it categorised as a creative/motiv image.
Spence.
JakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 7 Reply 22, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 889 times:
My apologies Ron - having looked at the whole lot I quoted the first bit by accident. Take what I meant as you obviously have and ignore that first bit about the shots needing to be rejected.
Too quick on the keyboard without first reading fully. So much to do, too little time is my excuse...
JakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 863 times:
I think we have to ask ourselves what 'creative' actually is. Just because a photog gets 'lucky' with a shot does that make it any less creative - and also does the planning and waiting make one any more creative?
At the end of the day a good, impressive image is just that, and shouldn't be judged by how long it took, how complicated an exposure it was, etc. If you're lucky and are in the right place at the right time, fair play to you! You avoid the hours/days/weeks/months/years(!) of planning so you're the real winner, LOL!
It's the end result that matters! How you got it is irrelevant as long as people are stunned by what you've captured!
Is luck a big part? Yes, of course. Is skill a big part? Again, of course, but I think luck is the bigger player. You could set yourself up for a stunning sunrise only to have an awkward cloud float by at the wrong moment - and if that happens it don't matter how long you've been sitting planning! All about 'THAT' split-second moment!
Raedervision From United States, joined Jan 2009, 31 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 845 times:
If the photograph is interesting, unusual, beautiful, strange, lucky, timed perfectly, rare, technically perfect, weird, inspiring, exciting, creative or just a bloody good shot let's see it! The rest of it really doesn't matter does it?
Sponsor Message: 
.gif){kind=small}
From United Kingdom (England), joined Apr 2004, 1141 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 364 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 2397 posts, 
From United States, joined Feb 2009, 419 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 1597 posts, 
From India, joined Feb 2009, 183 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3655 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
