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Is This Legal?  
User currently offlineAviationIvi From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 777 posts, RR: 7
Posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1624 times:

Hi guys,
just recieved an email from the airliners.de admin who wrote that he could find a site where on of my pics is published. There are some things changed and I´m not sure if they are allowed to do it? Please take a look! Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Ivica Ramljak - FRA Spotting



here´s the site where it is used:
http://www.ftd.de/ub/di/FTD1K5X36VC.html?nv=tn-rs

photo:
http://www.ftd.de/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=LargeImagePage&artid=FTD1K5X36VC&actimage=1&nv=image1

Regards from FRA
Ivica


26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFredrik Hjort From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1427 times:

If it is your shot that they publish without permission it's illegal... I noticed that it says "BerlinJet" as source of the image so I recommend you to contact the site and ask where they got the image from - maybe the airline is "using it" as PR, then it's even worse!?

/Fredrik


User currently offlineFredrik Hjort From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1416 times:

And the fact that it's manipulated doesn't change anything - it's still your original shot that they stole and published without permission  Pissed

/Fredrik


User currently offlineEDIpic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1416 times:

Certainly not.

No permission = not legal.

Gerry/EDO


User currently offlineAviationIvi From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 777 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

Hi,
thanks for your replies. It´s the fact that they changed some things that makes me uncertain.
However, it is my pic and they didn´t aks for permission.

Any more replies/thoughts appreciated...

Regards,
Ivi


User currently offlineWietse From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

It is illegal if the picture was copyrighted and no written permission was given by the copyright-holder (Ivica Ramljak). Because the picture was altered (different c/s) the offense is even greater. Aside from the pic being used without permission (1 illegal action) the pic was also altered and was given an INCORRECT source. If i recall that is called purgery.
As a result, the counter for offenses on this matter is now on 3.

It IS definately illegal and the producers of the website should be pointed out to this and they should be charged (if you want to get money for the pic) Or, if you do not want to recieve a payment, the picture should be removed from the website.

Please, someone correct me if i'm wrong!

Goodluck on this matter,

Regards
Wietse/AMS



Wietse de Graaf
User currently offlineWietse From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

I've been doing some comparing, it IS an altered version of your original. The following things are indicators:
The Delta MD11 on the background, the bird (?) in the grass (left front) and in general the environment. You can also see the marks Paintshop left on the fusalage (where the new c/s was applied)

Wietse/AMS



Wietse de Graaf
User currently offlineJoe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1371 times:

Ivica,
send them an email and attach the two pics (your original and their theftjob)- tell them that they must pay you market rate or your lawyer will be in touch with them and you will expose this all over the internet that they are stealing poor peoples pictures in order not to pay- that should wake em up.

Joe


User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

That is good advice from Joe. I think you should follow it.
/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineFredrik Hjort From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

Just a quick comment: "if the picture was copyrighted" - you don't need to register copyright, it's your right!

/Fredrik


User currently offlineAviationIvi From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 777 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1252 times:

Hello,
thanks for your replies, guys!

I´m in contact with the newspaper first, and other steps will follow.

Regards,
Ivi


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1246 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The question is, who used the pics, Financial Times (I would think they knew better, otherwise it's big $$$ for you!), or the wannabe-airline CEO's.

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineAviationIvi From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 777 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1248 times:

"Financial Times ( I would think they knew better...)"

Hi Konstantin,
that´s why I contacted them first.
CU
Ivi


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1234 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Funny that they bother to do such a photo themselves.
I would also think that the guys who plan to set up the airline would maybe choose a more colorful livery.

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1234 times:

Sorry, perhaps I am doing something wrong, but I cant' see the picture on the mentioned website.

Has it been deleted?

Regards
Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1232 times:

Obviously they removed the picture. There was a thumbnail sized one in the article (Ivi's first link) too, which is now also gone.
Peter



-
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

common rate for using a shot if no permission is asked first is TWICE current market rate.
Once for the use, and once again for the trouble of going after them.
If you want to do further business with them, it is of course prudent to be lenient in case of a first offense  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1220 times:

Who knows if this is first offence or not?
Hit them.
/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineAirways From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 880 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

Just an idea: Perhaps it wasn't FTD who stole the picture. It's also possible that they got it from Berlinjet or the people who intend to start up this airline.

Perhaps they have taken the picture from airliners.net and put their livery on it to give it to the press.

I think this would make more sense. And FTD would be right by quoting Berlinjet as source. They just didn't know that the pic was from airliners.net.

Michael
http://airways.ch


User currently offlineAviationIvi From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 777 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1158 times:

Gerardo, here´s the picture if you would like to compare them:


Airways: Sure, it´s not FTD that has stolen it. The FTD editor has written that they got the pic from Berlinjet.

Regards,
Ivi


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1142 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Being students, they probably won't pay you now, but if they ever take to the skies (which I doubt), I see some free tickets coming your way.

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineCarmy From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1106 times:

Students? What students? You mean the picture was done by students? If it was, don't expect much in compensation from them then. The courts are usually quite sympathetic towards students in such cases.

If not, it's a clear case of copyright infringement. I don't understand German, but if they've stolen your intellectual property, by all means, go get seek legal counsel. You should win this hands down.


User currently offlinePUnmuth@VIE From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 4163 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1104 times:

I thin Konstantin was refering to the fact that the two so called CEOs of ths wanna be airline are students and are about i think 23 yrs or something like that.
Peter



-
User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1085 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Yes, Peter is right, that's what I meant.
23 year old and airline CEO's... Hey, I'll turn 30 next year, and who knows, Juergen Weber is retiring in 2003 and I might be his successor!  Wink/being sarcastic

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

Ivica, thanks for posting the picture. I don't have anything to add to the fact, that this is you pic, and BTW not very good manipulated.

What can I say. It's annoying, and I for one would do everything to squezze as much as I could get out of those wannabes. If aircraft photographing is your hobby - as it is mine - , then you don't rely on any customer, as for example Berlin Air.

Try to get at least some free tickets, but above all, try to get all the facts together.

Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
25 AviationIvi : Hello! Gerardo: forget the free tickets! I´m not interested in flying with them! I´m in contact with my lawyer. We have all proofs collected, and I
26 Aviasian : I once saw my shot of the African Star Boeing 747-300 in a premier aviation magazine . . . for which permission was neither asked for nor granted. I w
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