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User currently offlinecompussr From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 40 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

I saw this photo on the frontpage and initially I thought that was quite a big turn. But after seeing the horizon and PFD in a larger version, it seems like the shot is not leveled with neither the horizon nor the cockpit. Camera's position is making the turn seem steeper than it really is.


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Photo © JPC van Heijst - AirTeamImages



27.89 degrees CCW align to the cockpit
11.49 degrees CCW aligh to the horizon

So i'm curious to know why it was accepted?

http://www.airliners.net/faq/rejection_reasons.php#level

[Edited 2010-03-17 22:37:58]

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5697 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3141 times:
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compussr,
Be prepared for a level of flaming as 2nd guessing the screeners is frowned on here, email to screeners@airliners.net is much preferred if you see something in need of correcting.*

Having said that I tend to agree with your question and quite frankly having downloaded and re leveled the image I much prefer it presented more realistically than shown here, works better as an image as well IMO

Regards

*Not a policy or (convention) I am totally in favour of, I think as long as discussion is kept polite and constructive It should be allowed.. encouraged even.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3139 times:

I think it was more a personal decision to let it through, the camera is what's level the plane is turning, imo it would be weird if you turned the camera to match. I like it, it conveys the degree at which the plane is banking. I think in this situation it works fine, level would be applied to my recent upload (which i forgot to level) and the tower looked like it was leaning to the left

User currently offlineFX772LRF From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 675 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3066 times:

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 2):
I think it was more a personal decision to let it through, the camera is what's level the plane is turning, imo it would be weird if you turned the camera to match. I like it, it conveys the degree at which the plane is banking. I think in this situation it works fine, level would be applied to my recent upload (which i forgot to level) and the tower looked like it was leaning to the left

The camera is nor level, nor banked to the aircraft. This means that the angle that is indicated by looking at the picture - about 20-30º right bank - is not the same as the angle reflected in the PFD which looks to be about 10º right bank.

I do think it's a bit weird that this photo was let through, with the plane nor horizon being level. I believe that this is an easy fix - I like the shot personally - it'd just be a matter of leveling and resubmitting.

-Noah   



Cleared to IAH via CLL 076 radial/BAZBL/RIICE3, up to 3k, 7k in 10, departure on 134.3, squawk 4676, Colgan 9581.
User currently offlinecrewchief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3051 times:

Quoting compussr (Thread starter):
So i'm curious to know why it was accepted?

Well, there are Rules and there are rules, but if one belongs to the A..-team,...........,didn't you know ??
           


User currently offlinebeechcraft From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 828 posts, RR: 41
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

Quoting crewchief32 (Reply 4):
Well, there are Rules and there are rules, but if one belongs to the A..-team,...........,didn't you know ??

Oh, please.....



That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
email to screeners@airliners.net is much preferred if you see something in need of correcting

Really? I was replied to very rudely when I tried this.

Karl


User currently offlineclickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2967 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

The screening crew have always made exceptions for inflight cockpit shots that are unlevel.

Here are a few random samples:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/North...Airlines/Boeing-757-251/1066120/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Param...aer-ERJ-170-200LR-175LR/1066004/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...ockheed-C-130T-Hercules/0961403/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Polan.../Lockheed-Martin-F-16DJ/1289383/L/

For those of you who have never been fortunate enough to enjoy a jumpseat ride, it isn't easy to hold a camera level while you are banking.

I will request that this thread be locked. If anyone needs further clarification please feel free to email us.


User currently onlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4815 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
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Royal,

I'm surprised that rule hasn't evolved over time with the other standards here. Normally posting examples that are a few years old doesn't work because older shots are not up to current standards.

The shot in question is nice. I'm not bothered by it's acceptance. I understand it's difficult to pull off but maybe tightening up the rule will make the photogs more conscious of their leveling references on future attempts.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

Quoting compussr (Thread starter):
So i'm curious to know why it was accepted?

http://www.airliners.net/faq/rejecti...level

From the above link:

"In this image both the horizon and the cockpit are unlevel. This would be rejected for LEVEL because we require that either the horizon is level or the cockpit is level. In this image you would either need to apply counter clockwise rotation to level the horizon or clockwise rotation to level the cockpit.



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently onlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 7):
For those of you who have never been fortunate enough to enjoy a jumpseat ride, it isn't easy to hold a camera level while you are banking.

I thought that that was what editing software was for, to add the ability to level the photo after the shot was taken. The original photo is not leveled to add false effect on the subject. no?

[Edited 2010-03-18 10:17:45]


Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlineclickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2896 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Sometimes it is not possible to get a level shot.

Should we have rejected these gems?


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Photo © Berry Vissers - Aero Image
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Photo © Belgium Air Force Sgt. Dirk Voortmans


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Photo © Mark Holtzman
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Photo © Tomas Sousek


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Photo © Mariusz Adamski
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Photo © Rob Tabor



Sometimes common sense trumps the rules.


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

I'm not agreeing with crewchief32 here but why do a lot of these 'should it have been accepted?' discussions concern ATI images?

Karl


User currently onlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4815 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2875 times:
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Quoting clickhappy (Reply 11):
Should we have rejected these gems?

Well...only cuz you asked...some of those seem to be level or damn close to level with the subject, but I see your point. IMO it's obvious the B-2 shot should have been uploaded with 90 degrees CCW rotation to be level, but whatever.

The major difference IMO is that the image being questioned is a standard cockpit shot and not in the same league as the others. But I see your point and it's understandable. Afterall, outside the box screening has been something we have all wished for. Always nice to see it in practice.

[Edited 2010-03-18 10:56:16]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 12):
I'm not agreeing with crewchief32 here but why do a lot of these 'should it have been accepted?' discussions concern ATI images?

don't ask  

I am not going to criticize the cockpit shot, but for the record, i Like it and have no problem with it, but I have a felling it was not leveled on purpose.
Regarding the gems, they are completely different motives and can't be compared to cockpit pictures



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently onlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

I love this comment

Nice photo, but you clearly tilted your camera to the left to enhance the effect

Isn't that part of photography? I think a few of you here should consider the fact that tryting to slag photogs and to further propagate the A-Team photogs get whatever they want soundbyte is really really old. If anet is going to make decisions like this on type of shot I think it's fair. The object is to get people to look at aviation pics, not to cater to the photogs that can rarely get flight deck access.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 8):
The shot in question is nice. I'm not bothered by it's acceptance. I understand it's difficult to pull off but maybe tightening up the rule will make the photogs more conscious of their leveling references on future attempts.

I can undertand your feeling Ryan, but sometimes the screeners make judgement calls. Is this a little excessive? Maybe but the plane is turning that direction and I don't feel the photog misled anyone. If they weren't turning on final and were flying level I think it would be a bit different.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 12):
I'm not agreeing with crewchief32 here but why do a lot of these 'should it have been accepted?' discussions concern ATI images?

Professional jealousy.


User currently offlinecompussr From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 11):
Should we have rejected these gems?

Absolutely not.

But there are 1,713 Boeing 737 cockpit shots.


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