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Pro Photog With Beginner's Questions About YYZ Etc  
User currently offlinemwillems From Canada, joined May 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Hey all,

Pro photog here, but new at airliner pics.

Geez, this site makes it difficult. Impossible menus, pulldowns that need to be selected laboriously for every picture, and so on. Like I shot 100 pics yesterday at YYZ, and do I really want to manually select the location and date 100 times? It'll take all day.

See here for a few samples: http://blog.michaelwillems.ca/2010/05/25/shooting-airplanes/

Anyway, to the questions.

1. Any tips for YYZ? I was at the base of rwy 24R yesterday and that was fine for "impact" pics, but for more neutral pics I'd like to be shooting more sideways, but without fences in the eway. Tips?

2. What are the recent runway usage rules at YYZ? What is the current list of tower freqs? I was missing one in my scanner and had to scramble to manually program it - nightmare. Suggestions welcome.

3. Any other tips for a pro who is new to airliner shooting?

Cheers,
Michael

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinestevemchey From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5137 times:

Hi Michael,

I am not familiar with YYZ, but I can comment on the more general aspect of uploading pics to a.net.

First of, as a new a.net photographer, you have a certain limit of photos you can upload at once (I think it is 5 at the beginning). So although filling out the details can be cumbersome, you don't have to do it 100 times. Also, when you prefill the registration and airport code at the top of the screen, most fields get pre-populated for you.

Secondly, as a pro photographer, you will likely have to adjust your pictures to "a.net standards", which are quite different from how most photographers look at pictures. Looking at your blog, I am sorry to say that most of your shots would get a "motive" rejection here. I am definitely not saying your images are bad, I am just trying to give you a heads up that requirements here are very specific. There has been a push for more "creative" shots lately, but I am not sure if any of your shots would fall in that category.

I would recommend you take a look at the photos in the database to see what the general styles of photos accepted here are. And if you have samples you would like to run by other photogs before uploading, post them in the Photography Feedback forum. People there are super helpful.


User currently offlinemwillems From Canada, joined May 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5102 times:

Well, I uploaded two pics, and had to go through everything twice: nothing at all was prepopulated.

As for "motive" - not sure what that means. In the usual sense of the word motive, my intention is certainly to make shots creative and not just boring - if this site only wants boring shots of aircraft landing, shot from aside, as the wheels touch the runway, then I guess I am out of here and will not be posting. Shame.

I would still love input on the questions I had, from anyone who knows YYZ.

By the way I used to be a ppl, have 250 hours in Cessnas, in places as diverse as the UK, Netherlands, Florida, California, Toronto, Calgary, Alice Springs, and Hong Kong. so I do understand what goes on when I listen to the scanner  

Cheers, and thanks for the feedback,
Michael


User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5087 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I wouldn't see why the A320 underbelly wouldn't be accepted assuming it was cropped the way screeners like it. It seems like a pretty neat shot to me.

The auto-fill works by entering the registration of the aircraft (e.g. C-GWEN) and the airport code (CYYZ) into the two auto fill fields at the top and click "Auto-fill." Assuming that the reg and location are in the database, the aircraft and airport info fields will fill themselves in with the proper data.



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlinesaintex From Canada, joined Apr 2009, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

Quoting mwillems (Thread starter):
Any tips for http://spottingatyyz.blogspot.com/
Two additional spots for 24L - the Hertz employee parking lot on Silver Dart (go on foot only), and a restaurant parking lot on International Blvd which is unused during the day

also http://www.contrailsphotography.com/spottingyyz.html but this hasn't been updated for years, 3 runways are missing.
The info for the 'old' runways still holds though.

[Edited 2010-05-25 06:52:32]

User currently offlinestevemchey From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 5034 times:

Quoting mwillems (Reply 2):
then I guess I am out of here and will not be posting. Shame

Don't shoot the messenger...   I know how you feel, that's why I wanted to give you a heads up about what the site is looking for and accepts. I for example upload pictures to a.net that I think fit on this site and keep my fun/experimental/artistic shot on flickr. I understand that a.net historically comes from a "aircraft documentation" and not necessarily from "artistic photography" background. While this is changing a little, it is the cause of lots of the photo requirements here. As I said in my first post (and as dvincent pointed out), some of your shots certainly have a chance of being accepted.

Just to show that creativity and a.net do go together, I want to share some shots of my favorite photographer here, INNflight.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography



As to YYC, LiveATC.net might have some resources that can help you with spotting at there. Just do a search for YYC and you will get live feeds to the tower/departures/arrivals as well as their frequencies. Spotterswiki.com might be another another good spotters resource, but it seems to be down a lot lately.

Hope you decide to stick around... would be a shame to lose a skilled photographer.


User currently offlinesaintex From Canada, joined Apr 2009, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 5030 times:

Hmm.. don't know what I did to screw up my post. Hope it's still legible  

User currently offlinestevemchey From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting mwillems (Reply 2):
As for "motive" - not sure what that means.

Sorry, I have so gotten used to the a.net lingo... here is an overview of the screening criteria for this site:

http://www.airliners.net/faq/rejection_reasons.php?#types-of-images


User currently offlinesaintex From Canada, joined Apr 2009, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

A rejection should not be simply for "motive" without additional reason(s) as per the link.

User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2764 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Quoting saintex (Reply 8):
A rejection should not be simply for "motive" without additional reason(s) as per the link.

If in the shot, as part of the motive, you centered the plane in the upper left hand corner. But there was no real reason to do so (I.E. nothing interesting to warrant the off-center motive), they would reject for motive, centered.

EDIT: Just noticed that was saintex and not the OP, so that's not addressed at you, saint.

[Edited 2010-05-25 10:57:42]


No info
User currently offlinemwillems From Canada, joined May 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

@dvincent: I did not see any "auto-fill" field.
@Jetmatt: I'll respectfully disagree that there's no reason, nothing interesting, etc.
Seems to me that all existing pics for the aircraft I submitted were very standard shots ; at takeoff, at landing, from the side, telephoto. A wide angle shot would show the plane from a different perspective from all the others, in these cases. Anyway we'll see.


User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2764 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

Quoting mwillems (Reply 10):
@Jetmatt: I'll respectfully disagree that there's no reason, nothing interesting, etc.

Well, you don't have to convince me, the screeners are the ones who decide. And that is the way it is. There needs to be something there to warrant the off-centering. And there's no set rule -- it's case by case. If it 'works' then it will be accepted.



No info
User currently offlinemwillems From Canada, joined May 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

That's fine, we'll wait and see. No problem either way: it just occurred to me that a few new shots of the aircraft I pictured (all of whose other pictures were very standard) would be welcome. If not, then fine, on with my day. Not sure I can warrant a lot of unpaid work, anyway.

Meanwhile, anyone with more info about YYZ, most welcome.

Cheers,
Michael


User currently offlinemwillems From Canada, joined May 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

@Steve: it's YYZ, and I'll follow the link - thanks.
@Saintex: it was 24R yesterday; only 23 and 24R were in use. Any good vantage points for 23?


User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4912 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting mwillems (Reply 10):
@dvincent: I did not see any "auto-fill" field.

It's like, the first thing in the upload page.

autocomplete


See where it says Auto Complete? There's a field for registration and airport code. Enter in the reg (N514UA, for instance) and airport code (e.g. KBDL) and press Get Info. So long as that info is already uploaded into a.net, it should populate the aircraft and airport fields with all of the proper data. I'd go mad if that feature wasn't there.  



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2764 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

Quoting mwillems (Reply 12):
Meanwhile, anyone with more info about YYZ, most welcome.

After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.



No info
User currently offlineWakeTurbulence From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.

I'm going to agree with that. Just a few things I have seen from your website and posts here:
1. Thread Title - "Pro Photographer" - Maybe it's just me, but putting that in your title makes you sound stupid, also it doesn't really matter what you are here, as long as your photos are good by Airliners.net standards.
2. Complaining about the menus - There are clear auto complete boxes at the top of the upload page. Take some time to read the 'Upload FAQ' and 'Rejection Guide or Editing In Photoshop.' Maybe because you are a pro, you don't need to though.
3. Quote from you on your blog -

"One more comment: Don’t try to take creative pictures and post them to http://www.airliners.net: they, I am told, only want non-creative, boring shots.

Personally, I think you need both. Straight “architectural” shots, and wide, dramatic shots. Why people would want to see 100 shots of the same airlines all shot in exactly the same manner is beyond me, but I suppose aircraft fanatics are not creative people.

So if you want to go there, go boring: shoot from the side with a long lens, as the aircraft is landing or taking off. Your airlines shot will be exactly like everyone else’s."


First, this site evolved from a database to a database/photography website. Shooting slide film of side on after side on was the tradition that got this site started. Thankfully, the site has opened up the rules to include much more creative photos, and thus is currently the best (or one of the best however you look at it) aviation photography website in the world. You will be hard pressed to find a more complete database, along with thousands of creative and inspiring shots as well.

Second, no offense but you didn't post any shots that were very creative. Were they a slide type shot, no, but were they groundbreaking in any way, also no. People have been shooting aircraft like the one's you posted for a long time, including myself.

I would post pictures here, but it seems like a waste of time as you already have your mind made up about the site and can't waste time shooting things for fun (even though you posted that in your blog as well).
-Matt



Jetwash Images - Feel the Heat!!!
User currently offlinesaintex From Canada, joined Apr 2009, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

Quoting mwillems (Reply 13):
only 23 and 24R were in use. Any good vantage points for 23?

Locations 7,8 and 9 on the contrails site are still good although the 'hill' they refer to is long gone and you will now be ejected from the private parking garage. From about 4pm onwards (sun position) there is a lesser-known location: a large open space in the industrial area along Northwest Avenue at the E. intersection of Caravelle Drive.


User currently offlinesaintex From Canada, joined Apr 2009, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.

Nobody likes having their work criticised or rejected; especially if it seems offhanded.

The standards here are very high (too high for me   ) and frankly, none of Michael's submissions are up to scratch. Some of the creative work here is outstanding, a newbie needs a thick skin and perserverance to break in.


User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2764 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting saintex (Reply 18):
Nobody likes having their work criticised or rejected; especially if it seems offhanded.

People need to get over this notion that they are doing the website a favor by uploading, it's the database giving you the favor by giving you free unlimited hosting and bandwidth (paid accounts do not change any photo features from an uploading standpoint), as well as hard to compete with traffic levels.

So, toss all the dirt you want, say A.net sucks and has no creative mentality - your loss not ours or the site's.



No info
User currently offlinemwillems From Canada, joined May 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Geez, such vitriol. The posts I denied on my blog were also very personal, all about how bad a photographer I am.

Guess, what, I shoot for a living. If people here do not like it, fine, that goes both ways, I am not all that impressed with most of the shots I have seen here. The ones posted above were very nice, but none of the aircraft I shot yesterday had anything even approaching this: I looked them up, and frankly, there were only "straight" shots of them (sideways landing). And yes, I am very sorry, but I can only say what I think: I think those are rather boring. That's why I uploaded the ones I did. I am sure there are great creative shots out there, but not of any of the aircraft I shot yesterday (I checked about ten of them).

Pro makes me sounds stupid? You guys really like slinging insults, don't you? We call that an "ad hominem" attack, and it is a sign of weakness. Photography is what I do for a living, and the post is a quick summary of who I am. I do not need to learn how to focus, or how to expose, how to choose a lens, or how to use my camera's menus: nothing wrong with that (I teach photography, so I teach people who have exactly these needs) but I was trying to explain that that is not the help I need. If that sounds stupid, so be it.

Complaining abut the menus: well, sorry, but this is a very cumbersome site. I worked in IT for ten years (does that make me stupid also?) and if there was an auto-cmplete box, I missed it several times.

And yes, when I put my time, $30k of equipment, and decades of experience shooting at the disposal of anyone for free, then yes, I am doing something nice. Break in? I was just doing the 'net a favour guys, uploading some pics of aircraft that had no interesting pics. And no, bandwidth and fame in the aviation community will not do anything for me. Free unlimited hosting? All my web sites re unlimited bandwidth. I am sure that is a benefit for some, but not for me.

Yes, I am disappointed at this community, except at the people above who actually helped - thanks guys.


User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2719 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
After tossing dirt in the face of the A.net community on your webpage, good luck getting too much support from here.

We'll see how he likes my comments on his blog.
"What a load of crock. Like a snake oil salesman, you “talk” a good game but when it comes to producing outstanding aviation photography, you simply fell short. So…. you blast the A.net website and blame everybody else for your shortcomings. Frankly, IMHO, none of your aviation images are up to snuff and don’t make it on A.net, and frankly, have little commercial value to anybody knowledgeable. Oh, and I do know of what I speak having won both of North America’s premier Aviation Photography Contests and being a former Senior Aviation Photographer with Bombardier Aerospace. Those that can…. do. Those that can’t, whine about it. Would you like some cheese with your whine?
"


User currently offlinesaintex From Canada, joined Apr 2009, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 19):
your loss not ours or the site's.

Moi ? Methinks you mistake me for another.  


User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2764 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

Quoting saintex (Reply 22):
Moi ? Methinks you mistake me for another.

I was agreeing with you, second statement was at the OP. Makes it twice now! lol  



No info
User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4795 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Michael,

I think you just got started off on the wrong foot. Coming into an established community takes a little bit of give-and-take. I don't know much about YYZ (as I live in Boston), but if you need some help or advice on the site side of things, I or others would be more than happy to give you some direction. Getting into this website isn't the easiest thing. It'll take a little bit to adjust to what screeners are looking for. It's not an impugnment on your skills or talent as a photographer.



From the Mind of Minolta
25 Jetmatt777 : Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Like I said, not our loss. I'm sure the unmentionable site would love to host your photos, oh, but w
26 mwillems : Guys.... some real haters here? The nice people above notwithstanding, of course. "The unmentionable site" Are there site wars going on here between a
27 mwillems : @dvincent: that is a nice reaction - thanks. Rather than attack my web (or photographic) skills, you agree it's not an easy site (it's not) and you of
28 Jetmatt777 : We were helping you at first, but then you go criticize the community around here and critique OUR work as it's not important because your name is no
29 mwillems : Jetmatt: Ad hominem means one criticises people. I do not and did not. I criticise the nature of the pictures I saw, but never the people who take the
30 Post contains images Jetmatt777 : And it's offensive when an outside comes in here, tosses around their overinflated ego, and tells us why his photos are better than the one's who have
31 mwillems : Ad hominem: you are doing it again. Attacking me for opinions. "Aircraft fanatics" is not you. Ad hominem - that is Latin, and it means a ***personal*
32 Post contains images INNflight : Now.... I'll give it a go and try to be constructive ( geez...gonna be hard! First off, everyone has a hard time getting stuff accepted, especially wh
33 Post contains images INNflight : Btw: It's not like it's never been done before, so maybe take a look at these two... First one has nicer light, a lower point of view, looks balanced
34 viv : Oh dear, what an unhappy thread! In summary, a newcomer arrives, states he is a pro photographer with flight and IT experience, and asks for help rega
35 Post contains images photopilot : First off PPOC (Professional Photographers of Canada) does NOT license photographers. I think they'd be surprised to see someone "marketing" themselv
36 mwillems : Geez, more hate! I have hit a nerve, eh. Just came back because I clicked on the link on my blog. Guys, LPPO means having attained Licentiate status f
37 photopilot : Oh WOW!!!!...... Your own website says "licensed by the PPOC" when in fact, as I pointed out, that's simply not true as PPOC does not licence photogr
38 Post contains links megatop412 : Wow, this thread is still going strong. I think everyone can agree on one thing at least: that there is way too much energy being wasted by both sides
39 Post contains links and images stevemchey : I fully agree with you here William. There are some really strong opinions here on both sides. But I have to say I was quite disappointed in Michael'
40 b737200 : I wasn't going to say anything at first but certain comments pushed me into it. I am not going to comment on the quality of the photos themselves sinc
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