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Dates On Uploaded Images  
User currently onlinedendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1671 posts, RR: 62
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4731 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

For the sake of consistency we are going to apply a small rule change from 20th of this month regarding dates on uploaded images.
These will be :-

Full dates are preferred but images will generally be accepted with only a month and year. No 'modern' images will be accepted with solely a year and these will be rejected for info. No images at airshows, museums or air displays will be accepted with anything other than a full date unless old

If multiple images are uploaded with simply a month and year, all will be treated as having been taken the same day and will be treated as double if appropriate. We will not look at different lighting conditions etc. If motives are similar they will be rejected for double

On the basis that images that are submitted for priority must be news, these will not be accepted with anything other than a full date.

In discussing these rules we realise that there are people that are unable to supply full dates but they are accommodated within them. However, this remains a database and it is hard to perceive a reason why full dates should not be included at a Museum or Airshow. The upload guides will be updated in due course

Mick Bajcar

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4718 times:

Quoting dendrobatid (Thread starter):
it is hard to perceive a reason why full dates should not be included at a Museum or Airshow

Exactly right. Unless you were there at a time when you were supposed to be somewhere else.  

I also agree about modern images - the camera always supplies date information, and I'd guess that most people here are quite methodical about the way they archive their processed images in order to make finding images for photo-requests.


User currently offlinevishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 474 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

GOOD JOB A.Net!!

@cpd > I dont think wives/girlfriends check A.net, or do they ?   

I think very many Russian Military Uploaders would be hard-hit by this rule, some dont even upload the location.

  A young naive photo viewer like me from a distant land is led to believe that all Tu-22's ONLY fly "Off-Airport Moscow" or in "Unknown/Witheld" Zones!


User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4573 times:
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I agree with Vishal. The Russian military photos are likely to decrease now. I also am affected by this as I upload some date-sensitive material.

Quoting dendrobatid (Thread starter):
No images at airshows, museums or air displays will be accepted with anything other than a full date unless old

That's good in theory but how would you know if it is during an airshow? I see many airshow photos which don't specify that it is from an airshow.


User currently onlinedendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1671 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4544 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 3):
I agree with Vishal. The Russian military photos are likely to decrease now. I also am affected by this as I upload some date-sensitive material.

Sovietjet
Read this again carefully........
Full dates are preferred but images will generally be accepted with only a month and year.

Little has been changed in this respect except that we will not accept just a year (we rarely get those anyway)

If you need to not include a full date when you are photographing military, fine, then continue to do so, but that does not mean that when you go to a museum that you must do the same.

Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineflyer408 From Germany, joined Jun 2010, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4535 times:

I think the year should be sufficient to indicate the era in which the photo has been taken. I don't need to know the exact date.

User currently offlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 2):
I think very many Russian Military Uploaders would be hard-hit by this rule, some dont even upload the location.

There is no chage of rules that will forbid entering an "Unknown" location. However, I wish more would use "Withheld" instead of "Unknown" when taking a photo at an actual airport. Unless ofcourse you are blindfolded, shoved into a van and driven to an airfield to take a photo of a Runnian aircraft and then told to upload it to airliners. It makes you look kind of stupid... "oh crap, where am I? Airplane!"



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4371 times:
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I'd actually prefer it if the uploader was smart enough to read the EXIF in the attached image and automatically set a date.


From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Quoting dvincent (Reply 7):
I'd actually prefer it if the uploader was smart enough to read the EXIF in the attached image and automatically set a date.

Photoshop Save for Web can strip out the EXIF, which makes it unreliable.


User currently offlineChukcha From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 1980 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4314 times:
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Quoting dvincent (Reply 7):
read the EXIF in the attached image and automatically set a date

... and get the photographer in trouble?

I regularly visit the Russian A.net forum; before the new rule introduction, one of their photographers was considering stopping uploading pictures here because of all the rejections he got for 'info'. He didn't want to risk it putting the actual dates in because he was afraid it would create him problems. I don't know how serious those troubles could be. I suppose it would depend on how eager those would be who would pursue the matter. Believe it or not, indicating the date and the location of military flying still constitutes divulging the 'state secrets' in Russia and could potentially land the photographer in jail.

That happens not only in Russia, by the way. I personally know a photographer in Adelaide, Australia who takes a lot of photos around Edinburgh air base. He used to put them on the net until he was payed a visit from certain authorities. After that he stopped uploading and pulled all the photos from the net. He still shoots, but never puts anything on the Internet any longer.


User currently offlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Quoting Chukcha (Reply 9):
He didn't want to risk it putting the actual dates in because he was afraid it would create him problems.

A month and year is still acceptable and it still leaves the photographer clear of an actual date.

However, the fact that the photographer leaves the date field blank doesn't fully remove him from the scene. The flight crew knows when they flew that particular aircraft, the ground crew knows as well.

Uploading to this site is not worth the risk of jail time or arrest, is it?



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4246 times:
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Quoting Chukcha (Reply 9):
... and get the photographer in trouble?

This could obviously be an optional preference.



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

Quoting Chukcha (Reply 9):

Photographing fortifications is risky business! (in Australia).

They can destroy your camera under the law. Hence why I never photograph military planes outside of airshows.


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

Wow! I wouldn't have expected such draconian law in Australia!

Getting (more) back on topic, we must not forget that many of our uploaders from sensitive areas such as Russia, the Middle East, etc. do not use English as a mother tongue. Trying to understand the notes on changes to the way dates are handled could lead to misinterpretations; which in turn could lead to people from these areas ceasing uploading.

I agree that clamping down on museums, airshows, etc. is the way forward but I fear this change has the potental to isolate those who contribute the most interesting images.

If this has been decided suddenly, was the 'old' system detrimental to the way the site works? I guess I'm just citing the old adage, "If it ain't broken..."

Karl


User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4139 times:
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I personally think this should be enforced for all but military aircraft(excluding airshows). Even a month and year is enough information to get someone in trouble. Many unique interesting images come out of these countries and I personally dont care one bit if there's a date or not. A year is enough information IMHO. Why enforce the dates when the locations are still "Withheld"? Makes little sense...

User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4137 times:
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Quoting JakTrax (Reply 13):
I agree that clamping down on museums, airshows, etc. is the way forward but I fear this change has the potental to isolate those who contribute the most interesting images.

Really? I think that losening the double rule for airshows would have been a good way to go.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4133 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 13):
Wow! I wouldn't have expected such draconian law in Australia!

To be fair, it is an ancient law dating back a very long time ago.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/da190356/s82.html

Sect. 82 sub-section 1, part D. You can be imprisoned for 6 months, fined $200 or both. This is why it's sometimes necessary to deliberately not include a year and put "unknown" as the location.

For normal airports and museums, I don't see the need to be obtuse with dates or locations (unless you've photographed something sensitive) - but for photography of anything military related, it's still important to be able to hide the date and location.

[Edited 2010-10-05 16:43:29]

User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 15):
Really?



Museums and airshows are entirely public places/events, where no sensitive information is held, and therefore there shouldn't be any excuse for omitting an exact date (unless as previously stated the images are old and without proper records).

I agree about some double rules though. I was at the Coventry fly-in last week and took two very different shots of an Atlantique DC-3 - one a regular side-on in sun and the other a kind of wing/tailplane creative in different light. I consulted the team and was told they'd fall foul of the double. Hard to believe that it would've perhaps been okay if I'd have taken another side-on of the other side or captured the same side a day later.

I'm not tyring to preach here but this seems like another one of those unnecessary A.net policies designed to drive a select group of people away. You only have to look at the feedback already posted from the Eastern Bloc. It's all very well saying there will be exemptions but unless someone wants to attempt explaining this to the Russian guys in Russian I feel it isn't going to be awfully clear.

I do however hope that my assumptions are wrong (and they may well be).

Karl


User currently offlineaussie18 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1753 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4111 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
I'm not tyring to preach here but this seems like another one of those unnecessary A.net policies designed to drive a select group of people away. You only have to look at the feedback already posted from the Eastern Bloc. It's all very well saying there will be exemptions but unless someone wants to attempt explaining this to the Russian guys in Russian I feel it isn't going to be awfully clear.

Your assumptions are wrong,We have no intention of driving photographers away from this site,All we are after is more consistency from some photographers to include full dates where we know there is no reason to leave the actual date out.

We are fully aware of the sensitive locations around the world where we get part of the date omitted & location possibly aswell and we wont be rejecting them based on that but if a photographer goes to Amsterdam and photographs the whole KLM fleet from very common spots/angles and does'nt bother including the date out of pure laziness than we will be forced to reject them.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
I'm not tyring to preach here but this seems like another one of those unnecessary A.net policies designed to drive a select group of people away. You only have to look at the feedback already posted from the Eastern Bloc. It's all very well saying there will be exemptions but unless someone wants to attempt explaining this to the Russian guys in Russian I feel it isn't going to be awfully clear.

We have already handled this by contacting some Russian photographers to ask them to pass the word around in their own language where it might be easier for some to understand.

Cheers Mark


User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4088 times:
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What about if you go during different days but shoot the same aircraft? Say I go on October 1st to shoot some Tu-22 or something...then on the 29th I also go and get that same aircraft. Given the sensitive nature I have to write "October 2010" for both but judging by your new rules one will get rejected for double even though both might have completely different lighting and exposure. So that's really unfair for the photographer since it basically forces you to be able to only upload one photo of the aircraft per month. I guess two if you count both sides of it....

User currently onlinesunandan From India, joined Jun 2005, 298 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4069 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 19):
Given the sensitive nature I have to write "October 2010" for both but judging by your new rules one will get rejected for double even though both might have completely different lighting and exposure.

If that's the case, the photographer can always leave a note to the screeners while uploading, stating that both pictures were taken on different days, to atleast avoid a double rejection.

Sunandan



You can either work for a living, or you can fly airplanes. I'd rather fly!
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Okay, I see your points here. But it already is getting a little confusing, hence Sovietjet's posts.

I guess it can be applied in such a way that minimal confusion arises - it's just a case of making it crystal clear initially.

It's pretty clear now. What puzzles me is that people deliberately leave out dates from places such as AMS. No excuse I suppose but could there be any reason for it?

Finally, I have plenty of old film images I occasionally go through and some of them I scan. I can never remember the exact dates or even the year sometimes - what will happen with these?

Karl


User currently onlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2352 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4039 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 21):
Finally, I have plenty of old film images I occasionally go through and some of them I scan. I can never remember the exact dates or even the year sometimes - what will happen with these?

From Mick's original post:
No 'modern' images will be accepted with solely a year and these will be rejected for info.

I take that to mean that if you have an old slide/print without an exact date, it will not be rejected solely for that reason.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineaussie18 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1753 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4028 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 19):

You seem to be missing the point,We understand that sensitive locations around the world that a actual date & even location can't be included but its more to do with airshows,museums & non sensitive locations where there is no need to leave full date out.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 21):
It's pretty clear now. What puzzles me is that people deliberately leave out dates from places such as AMS. No excuse I suppose but could there be any reason for it?

This is what we are trying to stamp out,There isnt really a need to omit the full date for a KLM 777 touching down at AMS taken from a common spotting location.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 21):
Finally, I have plenty of old film images I occasionally go through and some of them I scan. I can never remember the exact dates or even the year sometimes - what will happen with these?

Nothing has changed there,We know that and cant expect photographers to remember the exact date for a image taken 10-40yrs ago so a full date if possible is good but even a partial date is still acceptable.

Cheers Mark


User currently offlineclickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4009 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 19):
Say I go on October 1st to shoot some Tu-22 or something...then on the 29th I also go and get that same aircraft. Given the sensitive nature I have to write "October 2010" for both but judging by your new rules one will get rejected for double even though both might have completely different lighting and exposure.

That is the trade off for being allowed to only upload Month/Year.


25 unattendedbag : Then either go back on Nov. 1st and photograph it again, or photograph it with a different motive.
26 JakTrax : Or as mentioned the best idea would be to include a note. Karl
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