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Dilution Of Quality In "PHOTOGRAPHERS' Choice" II  
User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1265 posts, RR: 26
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5996 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

Come on people, VOTE!


While there is fantastic work represented, at least one slot is not representative of the high standards of Photographer's choice IDEALS. So it using up a slot that a more deserving shot would occupy. The system can be easily rigged and the example below is one such incident of many.

The current Mil- 17 static side shot from an unnamed country is a clear example of the dilution of the Photographer choice ideals. PC should not be based upon voting for one's buddy or one's country or one's airline or one's airforce PERIOD. It was meant to be for quality.


There are more than 3000 pictures of Mi -17 aircraft and even 3 others of this same aircraft.

We have talked about this before but still it goes on.

Dilution Of Quality In "PHOTOGRAPHERS' Choice" (by eksath Apr 24 2010 in Aviation Photography)?threadid=354292&searchid=354322&s=suresh#ID354322


World Wide Aerospace Photography
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSamuel32 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5929 times:

Most of the time its the same country, sadly. You can go through the top 15 and you can easily pick out the rigged ones. PC should be la creme de la creme, a source of inspiration and ideas.

I'll admit I don't vote too often, but more and more these last few months.

Sam,


User currently offlinehrtsfldhomeboy From Djibouti, joined Oct 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5895 times:

I just voted for this ballin picture


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Zaninger Jonathan



Dayum!


User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2519 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5687 times:
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Quoting eksath (Thread starter):
The current Mil- 17 static side shot from an unnamed country is a clear example of the dilution of the Photographer choice ideals. PC should not be based upon voting for one's buddy or one's country or one's airline or one's airforce PERIOD.

If you are talking about the Bulgarian Mi-17 the shot is neither static nor side-on. It was shot from another helicopter while the Mi-17 in question was doing an exercise, I think it created a unique effect with the vegetation around it. Regardless, the Bulgarian community on here is far too small to rig the votes. The shot became runner up PC before it even hit the front page as top 24. And I didn't vote for it since I had voted for another photo earlier. The photographer in question doesn't have too many photos on here and I believe this is the first time he got PC. I think you're pointing fingers at the wrong person/shot to prove your point (which is a valid one) IMHO

Quoting eksath (Thread starter):
There are more than 3000 pictures of Mi -17 aircraft and even 3 others of this same aircraft.

So just because a given type is not rare it doesn't deserve to become PC? Show me another Mi-17 shot with that kind of motive. I believe last week I saw a photo of yours of the Thunderbirds diamond in the PC top 15. According to your words, it should not have been in there because there's so many identical pictures of a Thunderbird diamond photo pass.

I understand your point and agree with it but I think your presented it wrong.

Just sayin


User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 3):
If you are talking about the Bulgarian Mi-17 the shot is neither static nor side-on. It was shot from another helicopter while the Mi-17 in question was doing an exercise

That shot was actually a damn good one, one of the most interesting photos of recent times on here.

I'll go away and continue taking my boring, unworthy landing/takeoff photos in lieu of being able to photograph space-shuttles or go up in fighter planes to photograph other fighter planes.


User currently offlineRonS From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 762 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

Quoting cpd (Reply 4):
continue taking my boring, unworthy landing/takeoff photos

At the ISO you've been shooting at lately I hardly call that boring!    Keep it up Chris!

Back to the OP. I agree with your first line:

Quoting eksath (Thread starter):
Come on people, VOTE!

That's what we really need. We don't have to point fingers, just point mouses.



All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6338 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

Quoting RonS (Reply 5):
That's what we really need. We don't have to point fingers, just point mouses.

It takes some effort to go through and find voteworthy pics though sometimes  



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

My vote of recent times went to the Diamond DA-42 sunset photo. A bit different and it caught my eye.  
Quoting RonS (Reply 5):
At the ISO you've been shooting at lately I hardly call that boring! Keep it up Chris!

I was being sarcastic, as usual.  


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4738 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5625 times:
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Quoting sovietjet (Reply 3):
If you are talking about the Bulgarian Mi-17 the shot is neither static nor side-on.

I don't think you guys are talking about the same photo.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineChukcha From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 1971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5611 times:
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Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 8):
I don't think you guys are talking about the same photo.

I don't think so either. I believe, the one Suresh brought up [i]is[b/] a static side-on, and it is not from Bulgaria. A typical example of buddy-voting. Stopped climbing, though; seems like it has already received all the votes that were expected.


User currently offlineJohnR From Bahrain, joined Nov 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5588 times:

I think people are being a bit harsh on this photo, It's an interesting aircraft with the An-225 creating a nice back drop at a farely remote location that i dare say most people couldn't find on a map. There may be 3000 pictures of this type and even 3 of this very aircraft in the data base but as an exercise i looked up the stats for Southwest Airlines B737......12,814 total with no less than 1,505 at Las Vegas alone! This is this photographers second only photo in the DB, i'm sure he's feeling very welcome.

User currently offlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2311 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5587 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 3):
If you are talking about the Bulgarian Mi-17 the shot is neither static nor side-on.

Then I would imagine you are talking about 2 different pictures. The Bulgarian Mil-17 was on top 5 days ago and it deserved the top spot. Have you visited the Photographer's Choice section lately? There is a static, side-on shot of a Mi-17 that is currently listed as a contender. Suresh is probably talking about that one.

[Edited 2010-12-02 17:50:36]


Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2519 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5518 times:
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Whoa, looks like I misunderstood. Just saw the Mi-17 in question now. Sorry for the confusion

User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1265 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5514 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

I am glad we got it cleared up.

For the record, I am NOT referring to a picture from Bulgaria.

 

p.s. I ,too, have shot Mil 17s in unique hard to get places but that does not make my shots worthy of photographer's choice and I would actually be embarrassed if some of my undeserving boring side on shots made it to the top 15.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3884 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting eksath (Reply 13):

The country is Iran. Why on earth don't you name it?

The voting nepotism is childish, but urging a few photographers to vote isn't going to help. Have there been viable proposals to improve the voting system? If that's too difficult, you'd better stop worrying about this.

Peter 



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4738 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5409 times:
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Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 11):
Then I would imagine you are talking about 2 different pictures. The Bulgarian Mil-17 was on top 5 days ago and it deserved the top spot. Have you visited the Photographer's Choice section lately? There is a static, side-on shot of a Mi-17 that is currently listed as a contender. Suresh is probably talking about that one.

I see the photo has climbed positions considerably since the photo has been named. Some kind of a response to this thread perhaps?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2519 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5401 times:
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Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 15):
I see the photo has climbed positions considerably since the photo has been named. Some kind of a response to this thread perhaps?

Maybe. Last night I was up late studying for exams and noticed that it jumped really fast during the 5 minutes before the PC changes at 12AM PST.

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 14):
The voting nepotism is childish, but urging a few photographers to vote isn't going to help. Have there been viable proposals to improve the voting system? If that's too difficult, you'd better stop worrying about this.

I don't think it can be changed to avoid this abuse. The best way is in fact to have more people vote.


User currently offlineNumero4 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

Well, given the fact that only us photographers can vote, I don't quite grasp how everyone can vote for their buddies. My perception of aviation photography has changed dramatically the day I started editing photographs and uploading them here. Therefore, I see my vote as a little more (no sarcasm here!) 'enlightened' than most people who just browse. I do not believe (in my humble opinion) people vote for a photograph only because the type is or isn't rare.

I check 'new photos today' about 2-3 days a week and we all know that some days are poorer in terms of spectacular/exceptional shots.

Exceptional photos should be just that: there aren't new ones uploaded every day.



CYQB
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 16):
Maybe. Last night I was up late studying for exams and noticed that it jumped really fast during the 5 minutes before the PC changes at 12AM PST.

Wouldn't surprise me - such "games" have been played before. I don't normally vote on photographers choice that often. I only vote for very exceptional photos.


User currently offlineasuspine From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

I can see visitors comments from only the same country on this first photo of a new photog. Congratulations, now they have one more vote.

May be there should be an option to vote against as well to take down ordinary photo from PC.

Regards

[Edited 2010-12-04 09:07:08]


HFK
User currently offlineghajdufi From Hungary, joined Jun 2005, 233 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5244 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 15):
I see the photo has climbed positions considerably since the photo has been named. Some kind of a response to this thread perhaps?

I guess they rated all our photos 1* as well....



HGabor
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

You can always turn off comments and ratings.

User currently offlinederekf From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

The latest "choice" just beggars belief. Compare it to be beautiful F-22 shot currently in 2nd place. Is there any comparison?

I give up.



Whatever.......
User currently offlineChukcha From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 1971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5170 times:
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Quoting asuspine (Reply 19):

May be there should be an option to vote against as well to take down ordinary photo from PC.

That would be so-o-o abused... Same people who vote for their buddies would vote against everyone else.

Quoting cpd (Reply 21):
You can always turn off comments and ratings.

Why? Bad comments won't get through, only the good ones, and the star rating is meaningless anyway. Besides, nobody can see the rating but the photographer himself.

[Edited 2010-12-04 18:21:10]

User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5165 times:

Quoting derekf (Reply 22):
The latest "choice" just beggars belief. Compare it to be beautiful F-22 shot currently in 2nd place. Is there any comparison?

Well, what can you say, cabin photo, AN-225 all adds up to big views. I voted for the F22 Raptor.

Quoting Chukcha (Reply 23):
Why? Bad comments won't get through, only the good ones, and the star rating is meaningless anyway.

If someone is worried about the star rating, they can turn it off.


25 Silver1SWA : Someone worried about their star rating would want a star rating in the first place. So turning it off wouldn't be an option for that type of person.
26 zbot69 : It's quite obvious that certain groups of photographers are very well organized and continue to send, pardon me for saying so, relatively mediocre fai
27 Post contains images cpd : I just don't get enough time to browse all the submissions - so I miss images. That MI-17 / AN-225 image from Iran, I only knew about that because so
28 ptrjong : I only vote for pictures that strike me as truly exceptional. I don't do it on a daily basis and I'm not going to change that just because what a few
29 Post contains images sovietjet : Oh well...it's happening again. Regular side-on shot has been in the DB for 2 hours and less than 100 views but already almost at the top of PC.
30 ghajdufi : Actually I was being sarcastic. Star ratings are just toys for the kids, they are meaningless. Comments however are the best feature of the site, jus
31 raedervision : Until photographers control PC there will always be a lot of airplane pictures mixed in with the photographs. Maybe it's an airplane popularity contes
32 ptrjong : You can't define that.
33 eksath : That thumbnail attachment is a beauty. Hope it gets added to the database.
34 Post contains images RonS : Actually Star Ratings do mean something. I believe the higher your ranking, the better chance your photo gets on the front page in the Top Rated Phot
35 Samuel32 : I'm dign' todays photog choice... Always wanted to take a shot like that. Sam,
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