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Double Or Not Double?  
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8906 posts, RR: 76
Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4927 times:
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Hi guys,

the double rule is still something I have trouble to understand at times. I mean not that the rule exist, but what exactly is considered double and what not.

I found 2 pictures from the same flight from the same day from the same photographer which basically show the identical cabin shot, but one shows the climb out, the other the cruise altitude. The only difference is: one shows the mid section of the economy class and the other the rear part of the economy class. I guess this is no double as it shows 2 different 'parts' of the cabin then?

Next I found 4 pictures from the same flight. One at the gate, one during flight in the cabin, one wing view, one cockpit shot. Are 4 pictures from the same flight from the same airplane on the same day allowed?

I am not saying whose pictures it is. These are general question. Basically I can upload as many pictures as I want from an airplane on the same day as long as the motive is different enough and showing different parts of the airplane? Like rear cabin, mid cabin, forward cabin (all Y class), then same for C and F class, then cockpit, then one wingview, then one view from outside etc etc?

Many thanks for clarification.

wilco737
  


It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 7328 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4902 times:
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Hi Phil,

Everything you have posted above is correct. Doing a quick tally of the number of possible photos from a single flight, the maximum would be nine: 4 cabin (first, business, front and rear economy), 4 window view (two from each side if showing considerably different motives), 1 cockpit. Of course this would only be possible on an aircraft with all of the said cabins; if it's a single cabin aircraft, then only six would be possible, as it is only one image per cabin (i.e. one looking forward and one looking back is not allowed).


User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8906 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4875 times:
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Quoting dlowwa (Reply 1):

Dana,

thanks for clarification. That helps me a lot to understand the double rule better now.   

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1488 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4843 times:
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Ha - Funny! I wrote a Mail because of that series to the screeners asking exactly the same. Did not get a Mail back so I thought it seems to be okay. Now I also understand it better (Thanks Dana ) .... but I am still puzzled I got a double rejection some years back ... Anyway I personaly find it rather lame/ridicilous to try to get as much views as possibel out of a flight, cause this is the only reason to show 2 nearly identical Eco cabin shots. Tells a lot about the photographer ... reminds me of the big discussion we had some time ago. Also I rather try to enjoy the flight itself than running around in the whole plane to get as much photos as possibel ... Sometimes I am sitting there and thinking: Common Robin, take your camera and get up, take a shot of the cabin - But being lazy, enjoying a film, the meal or the overall atmosphere ... I say to me: Ah, you can do it later, very often the flight ends with me have not taken the shots. I dont know how much views I missed out the last years .... must be thousands .... OMG !    

[Edited 2011-05-15 11:51:15]


ABC
User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2519 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4836 times:
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Quoting dlowwa (Reply 1):
1 cockpit

I thought if one is at night and one during the day it is acceptable? Either way, it would be interesting to see if anyone here has all 9(or 10) possible shots  


User currently offlineghajdufi From Hungary, joined Jun 2005, 233 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4808 times:
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PHOTO SCREENER

If it was me making the rules up it would be like this:
8 cockpit
1 rest of the plane
toilets, showers, stairs etc not allowed

Just kidding of course, I know the majority of the site's visitors are more interested in the pax areas than me.
-HGabor



HGabor
User currently offlinezbot69 From Hong Kong, joined May 2009, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4773 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 4):
I thought if one is at night and one during the day it is acceptable? Either way, it would be interesting to see if anyone here has all 9(or 10) possible shots

You realize what you've just started right?

[Edited 2011-05-15 13:37:54]

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8906 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4688 times:
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Come on guys, this was only a question of mine to make the double rule more clear to me. No contest should start now or anything like that.

Thanks.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineThierryD From Luxembourg, joined Dec 2005, 2061 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4598 times:
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Quoting wilco737 (Reply 7):
Come on guys, this was only a question of mine to make the double rule more clear to me. No contest should start now or anything like that.

Yeah yeah, I can already see you running around your little plane, trying to get those 9 shots...   

Thierry



"Go ahead...make my day"
User currently offlineairkas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 3943 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 4):
Either way, it would be interesting to see if anyone here has all 9(or 10) possible shots

I got 7 (out of 9 uploaded) accepted recently, so I got very close to that. Same aircraft, same day, same photographer. Was quite amazed and happy with that as you can imagine.

Shameless plug:


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User currently offlinezbot69 From Hong Kong, joined May 2009, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4546 times:

Quoting airkas1,reply=9I got 7 (out of 9 uploaded) accepted recently, so I got very close to that. Same aircraft, same day, same photographer. Was quite amazed and happy with that as you can imagine.:

Now if you'd just added that one shot of the crew's water closet with mood lighting it would have been incomparable. Nice overview of the Inflight Entertainment accoutrements btw.

Looks like a fun day!


User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8906 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4475 times:
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Quoting ThierryD (Reply 8):
Yeah yeah, I can already see you running around your little plane, trying to get those 9 shots...   

Oh for sure not... But I wanna see the faces of the passengers if the pilot runs around the airplane with a camera taking pictures of the cabin 

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinejumbojim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4392 times:
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wilco737
Are you back flying pax now ? i thought you where on the Md11 maybe i been away too long all the best with it.
i thought the double rule applied when your shot is similar to one uploaded earlier but only acceptable if its of better quality please correct me if I'm wrong.
Cheers



On a wing and a prayer
User currently offlineScooter01 From Norway, joined Nov 2006, 1186 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4390 times:
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It must be a tough job to be a A.Net screener. (or maybe this has become a birdwatching site?)

Check out the shots with the bird having its wings down and the other one with the (same?) bird having its wings up...
(Granted, there are two different photographers, the aircraft has moved a few feet, but both pics show the same event.)

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Photo © Natalie Brüggemann
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Photo © Markus Adank


Now, here's the toughie; the photo with the bird having its wings up was first accepted (a lower photoid.#) but clearly the photo with the bird having its wings down was taken earlier in the same event.

The question I am trying to raise; Why show two almost identical photos of the same event?
OK, something significant might have happened when the photos were taken, like a flap-faring coming off
(Happens quite regularily according to another forum here)


Scooter01



"We all have a girl and her name is nostalgia" - Hemingway
User currently offlineThierryD From Luxembourg, joined Dec 2005, 2061 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4339 times:
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Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 13):
The question I am trying to raise; Why show two almost identical photos of the same event

Jan,

photos have never been rejected for double here at A.net when 2 different photographers uploaded similar shots and it will most probably never be the case as it would be unfair to the photographers.

Kind Regards,

Thierry



"Go ahead...make my day"
User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2519 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4296 times:
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Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 13):
The question I am trying to raise; Why show two almost identical photos of the same event?

Oh come on, you forgot about this?    
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Photo © Thomas Posch - VAP


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Photo © Karl Nixon


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Photo © Wim Callaert


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Photo © Kevin Rowett


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Photo © Ian Heald


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Photo © Darren Wilson


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Photo © Gareth Harvey


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Photo © Stewart Andrew


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Photo © James Mepsted


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Photo © Tim Goodwin


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Photo © Paul Markman



User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4250 times:

As a close follower of the 747-8 test program I am still amazed by the fact that very few photos seem to be accepted of that aircraft type in the data base, after more than a year of flight testing and over 20 aircraft produced. The total photo count (search : 747-8) is only 111 and more than half of the aircraft produced up to now are not present in this data base.
According several members, that have contacted me, it's nearly impossible to get photo's with actual news value ( e.g. the first photo of a just produced aircraft) into the data base in an exceptable time frame and some members are actualy not posting anymore or just post on another aviation site.

But here it comes : From the last excepted photos 7 (seven) are all from the same location, the same aircraft on the same date.


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Photo © Chris Heaton


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Photo © John R. Beckman
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Photo © John R. Beckman


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Photo © Chris Heaton


[Edited 2011-05-18 13:00:44]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineScooter01 From Norway, joined Nov 2006, 1186 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4227 times:
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Thierry,

I have nothing but the deepest respect for photographs as shown in reply #9, but I have noticed that when spotters team up or travel together, we end up with photos like this:

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Photo © Natalie Brüggemann


and

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Photo © DeeCarine
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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt


Quoting sovietjet (Reply 15):
Oh come on, you forgot about this?
-Good one!

What I'm trying to get at, -a lot of people I speak to have lost the interest in contributing to
-or looking at photos in A.net. -the site is only as good as we make it and by that I mean -raise the level of the photos shown here. That would be fair to the real photographers

Oh, we also have MyAviation -they will host all photos submitted by aviationphotographers
but we have to deal with this:

MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © pereraph

and
MyAviation.net photo:
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Photo © maeris


Who is the real photographer -or spotter...

Scooter01



"We all have a girl and her name is nostalgia" - Hemingway
User currently offlinedlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 7328 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4213 times:
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Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 17):
That would be fair to the real photographers

Please define 'real photographer'.

Then you can tell us how allowing similar images from different photographers is unfair.


User currently offlinestevemchey From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4195 times:

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 17):
That would be fair to the real photographers

I am really at a loss here... Are you saying that when two (or more) people upload images from the same event, one is a "real photographer" and the others are not?

How do you decide which photograph is allowed to be uploaded? Is it "first come, first uploaded"? Then it's not the "real photographer" that gets the photo accepted, but the one who gets home first... or are you suggesting that "the better photo" gets accepted? The I would be curious which one in the above series is "better".

Sorry, but I find this suggestion rather silly.


User currently offlineScooter01 From Norway, joined Nov 2006, 1186 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4194 times:
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Quoting dlowwa (Reply 18):
Please define 'real photographer'.

Probably someone who puts some time, effort and thought behind his/her recording of an image and only then submits his/her best result for publication at the Worlds Premier aviation photo-database.

Quoting dlowwa (Reply 18):
Then you can tell us how allowing similar images from different photographers is unfair.

As I mentioned earlier;

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 17):
-a lot of people I speak to have lost the interest in contributing to
-or looking at photos in A.net.

If there were not so many similar images, people would return to -and look at the many great aviation-photographs that some photographers really put some time, effort and thought behind before submitting them. -fair enough?


Scooter01



"We all have a girl and her name is nostalgia" - Hemingway
User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2519 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4188 times:
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Scooter - there is no way what you are saying can be enforced without adding in elements of favoritism and speculation, both of which would be highly frowned upon by many more "real photographers" than might currently be "upset" at all the similar images.

Sorry, but it is unfair.

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 20):
Probably someone who puts some time, effort and thought behind his/her recording of an image and only then submits his/her best result for publication at the Worlds Premier aviation photo-database.

So how would you know who does this? And if one guy gets home first and clicks the button the other guy is automatically "disqualified"? I know a.net is competitive but do we really need to see a car race home between different photographers leaving an event so that they can upload first?


User currently offlineScooter01 From Norway, joined Nov 2006, 1186 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4179 times:
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First of all, apologies to wilco 737 for getting this thread out of hand...

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 21):
So how would you know who does this? And if one guy gets home first and clicks the button the other guy is automatically "disqualified"? I know a.net is competitive but do we really need to see a car race home between different photographers leaving an event so that they can upload first?

There could be a "Pre-screening" feature, something like the Photography feedback added, so all submitted photographs -unless there were some "breaking news", could be held for "inspection" for 15-24 hours by the screeners before insertion to the database.
I am fully confident the screeners could live with that, maybe their workload would become less?

Remember folks, -who would look at your photographs if they were displayed at a "boring" site?  

Scooter01

[Edited 2011-05-18 17:03:05]


"We all have a girl and her name is nostalgia" - Hemingway
User currently offlinedlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 7328 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4172 times:
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Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 20):
Probably someone who puts some time, effort and thought behind his/her recording of an image and only then submits his/her best result for publication at the Worlds Premier aviation photo-database.

You are implying that of the examples above, some are not real photographers then. Please enlighten us as to which you feel did not put time effort and thought into their photo.

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 22):
There could be a "Pre-screening" feature, something like the Photography feedback added, so all submitted photographs -unless there were some "breaking news", could be held for "inspection" for 15-24 hours by the screeners before insertion to the database.

I am quite confused.. could you elaborate? We currently average about 1500 photos submitted every day. Are you suggesting another round of screening before they are officially screened? What purpose would this serve other than to double the length of time photographers currently wait to have their images screened? And who would do this 'pre-screening inspection'? We are breaking our backs trying to get the queue down as much as possible, with some of us spending several hours a day to that end... how would this at all lessen our workload? Seems totally counter-productive to me...are you even aware how the submission and screening process currently works for this site?


User currently offlineChukcha From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 1971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4165 times:
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Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 22):
There could be a "Pre-screening" feature, something like the Photography feedback added ... I am fully confident the screeners could live with that, maybe their workload would become less?

And what is your 'full confidence' based on? Lots of screening experience?

   is all it is. What you are suggesting would upset more photographers that it would appease, and it would create a complete mess. Another 'motive' rejection prospect upon the existing one, but under a different guise. The screening here, as it currently is, after a lot of struggle has achieved a certain level of consistency and predictability; as they say - leave well enough alone.

[Edited 2011-05-18 18:25:09]

25 Post contains images Scooter01 : You need to break some eggs to make an omelette. When a reasonably awake screener sees this: or this: shouldn't there ring a bell? -"Haven't I seen s
26 Chukcha : I browse the DB every day, somehow I fail to see those "doubles". Maybe this is because I don't look for them?
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