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So Airport Security And Photography?  
User currently offlineconoramoia From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 499 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8037 times:

Hi Guys,

I'm wanting to clarify a few things and I thought that here would be the best place to ask.
So,
- Carrying tripods through security? whats the tips, I certainly don't want to part it so I'd like to make sure.
Also,
- Taking photos inside the terminal building (airside)? I know its been discussed but I've been gone for a while and I'm ashamed to say I'm a bit out of touch but wanting to take it up seriously again so I'm just a little bit unsure.

Thanks for your time,

Conor

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineunattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8038 times:

Quoting conoramoia (Thread starter):
- Carrying tripods through security? whats the tips, I certainly don't want to part it so I'd like to make sure.
Also,
- Taking photos inside the terminal building (airside)?

What airport or country are you inquiring about?



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlineconoramoia From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8035 times:

Emm well I was hoping to get past experiences from anywhere but US, Europe predominantly.

Regards,

Conor


User currently offlineplanejamie From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8008 times:

Quoting conoramoia (Reply 2):
Emm well I was hoping to get past experiences from anywhere but US, Europe predominantly.

Regards,

Conor

Heathrow might get a bit annoyed with you taking pics inside the terminal of the terminal with big professional equipment, but a point and shoot or mobile phone camera should be alright (I have heard of people being told to delete pictures etc).

Other than that, I'm not entirely sure to be honest


User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8002 times:

Quoting planejamie (Reply 3):
I have heard of people being told to delete pictures etc).

Only when taking photos in the security search areas. Otherwise you should be ok even with a DSLR.


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7989 times:

I have a story to tell that's been told many times in this forum so I'll keep it short...

I was once told airside at EMA that I 'could take photos with a small camera of a plane with family or friends in front but not of the plane itself with a press camera'. I challenged this and asked how they make the distinction between a 'small camera' and a 'press camera'.

Put simply, either photography's alright or it's not - irrespective of what you're snapping, how you're snapping it and what camera you use.

Photography is illegal in customs and exise areas, and also at immigration/border control; but not in a public airside area (at least here in the UK). As for images being deleted, as far as I know NO-ONE has the right to make you do that without some kind of warrant or similar; regardless of which area of an airport you are in.

Karl


User currently offlinedlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 7328 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7974 times:

Quoting conoramoia (Thread starter):
- Carrying tripods through security? whats the tips, I certainly don't want to part it so I'd like to make sure.
Also,

I just came back from a trip last month where I went through 15+ different airports, including ones in the UK, Europe, the former Soviet Union, Asia, and the U.S., and I brought my tripod as a carry on through all of them. I was not questioned once, or asked to check it, for that matter. It's medium-sized, so as long as yours isn't huge, it shouldn't be an issue.

Quoting conoramoia (Thread starter):
- Taking photos inside the terminal building (airside)?

That would likely depend on each airport. I had no issues with that either be it in the UK, Europe, or the U.S., and was even able to get some pics of American military ops while going through Manas/Bishkek, though I wouldn't recommend pushing your luck there  


User currently offlinemegatop412 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7830 times:

I did some recent spotting with a DSLR at LHR back in June and there were no problems at all. I didn't have a tripod though, all hand-held shooting

A couple of years ago I was told it was "illegal" to take pictures of the planes from within the terminal at KPHL. I replied that it was not illegal and that was a common misconception, gave the person my card, and kept shooting.


User currently offlineCyberDyne From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7819 times:

Anyone know about LAX?

User currently offlinecomair25 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7785 times:

I would say if its not overly large it would be fine. The only time you may have trouble is at some US airports where TSA is the spawn on satan. I was going through in uniform one day and they made me take my boots off even though they were not steel toe boots. You know how long it takes to put boots back on and re blouse... argh

User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 745 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7776 times:

In the case of the UK, the law is a bit conflicting. On the one hand, you are totally within your rights to take pictures in a "public area". A public area has nothing to do with ownership, its any space where the general public has free access, and hence can have no expectation of privacy.

However, it is also the case that any property owner has the right to set rules and regulations on what people can and can't do on their property. Obviously an airport belongs to someone and they can make a decision as to whether to permit photography or not.

So, in the absence of any prohibition (eg. signs) preventing photography, you can take pictures. However, if an airport official asks you to stop taking pictures, you must comply. But they have no right to ask you to delete any pictures taken prior to being told to stop. Some areas of the airport, eg. security, will have signs forbidding photography - shoot there, and you risk having your equipment confiscated.

It sounds weird, but I would suggest you never ask for permission to take pics in the terminal - you have a right to do so anyway, but very often if you ask, the answer will be "no", and then you're stuffed.

Of course the above applies to non-commercial use. As with any pics of private property or individuals, you do need a property and/or model release to use an image for commercial purposes.

Cheers.

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineacontador From Chile, joined Jul 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7758 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Just to add a little of my bad experience at Caracas, Venezuela (I know it's far away, but I think it is good to show that all over the world things are a bit different).

I was told by the very friendly local spotters that I could try some airside photography inside the terminal on my way back but I had to watch out for the police as they didn't "like" people to shoot inside the terminal.

Well, knowing the risk, I walked my way to a quiet corner inside the terminal near the last gate, which I thought was out of sight of the main areas (and police) - little did I know that the whole place is packed with cameras! Well, to make it short, after about 30 minutes a rather unfriendly looking guy (no uniform, just an "airport security" badge) came to me, grabbed me by the arm and said that what I was doing was illegal and that he's taking me for some questioning. Even being prepared, I was somehow caught by surprise by his rather violent attitude, but nevertheless was able to calm him down by explaining that I was a simple tourist that likes airplanes...you know the story  . He demanded to see all the pictures I had taken before (I had previously put a new card in the camera, just in case, so the other shots from that trip were safe). Then he told me that I was OK but that he had to do "something" as he himself was being watched! So, he told me to move just in front of a camera that was pointing to us, show the display towards the camera and start deleting all the shots one by one...and so I did for about 45 minutes! Finally he "accompanied" me to my gate and only left me once I had boarded.

Of course, once back home I recovered all the deleted shots with the appropriate software, so nothing was lost, but at some point I have to admit I was really scared!

Cheers,
Andres

[Edited 2011-11-04 06:07:22]


Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2350 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 7):
A couple of years ago I was told it was "illegal" to take pictures of the planes from within the terminal at KPHL. I replied that it was not illegal and that was a common misconception, gave the person my card, and kept shooting.

Maybe not "illegal", but perhaps not permitted in some. If the terminal is privately owned/operated (I know at least some of the terminals at JFK fall into that category), the operator can institute a "no photography" policy, and ask you to stop taking photos. If you refuse, you can be asked to leave, or face trespassing charges. It is the same situation as taking photos at a shopping mall - it is private property that is open to the public, and the owners can place restrictions on your activities while on the property.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinemegatop412 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 12):
Quoting megatop412 (Reply 7):
A couple of years ago I was told it was "illegal" to take pictures of the planes from within the terminal at KPHL. I replied that it was not illegal and that was a common misconception, gave the person my card, and kept shooting.

Maybe not "illegal", but perhaps not permitted in some. If the terminal is privately owned/operated (I know at least some of the terminals at JFK fall into that category), the operator can institute a "no photography" policy, and ask you to stop taking photos. If you refuse, you can be asked to leave, or face trespassing charges. It is the same situation as taking photos at a shopping mall - it is private property that is open to the public, and the owners can place restrictions on your activities while on the property.

I'd like to see them try to charge me with trespassing if I have a ticket and I want to take pictures out their window. The person that confronted me was a food services employee on her break. She was no one with any authority and clearly was only parroting what she's seen her coworkers tell gullible people. I'm not a ballbuster but I was prepared to have her show me where it said that I couldn't take pictures. You want to do a background check on me, fine, but don't try to tell me I can't take photos of a scene that my eyes are already looking at. Unless of course it's something very sensitive like Area 51 or something like that.

If a terminal decides to institute a 'no photography' policy(and not just near the TSA area) it needs to put up signs to that effect. I for one would love to see them try that at a non-military installation. And they know they can't, because a no-photography policy is clearly in violation of a person's civil rights, regardless of whether it's private property. It isn't the same kind of private property as your backyard because it is property designed to accommodate public access.

To expect members of the traveling public to adhere to something that absurd sets them up to be challenged in court. I know I would. A 'no photography policy' in a public airport in the United States? Where there are thousands of people walking around with cameras?? Good luck enforcing that.

Of course, I would never try that in a place like Venezuela, although I'm sure it's a beautiful country.


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7680 times:

I agree fully with Megatop412. I myself have challenged such 'policies' and have a) never been charged with an offence and b) never been shown the legislation in print, despite asking on several occasions.

The law requires the authorities to back up their demands in writing if there is cause for doubt. Or rather, it's your right to request a copy of the document stating that you are in breach of the rules. Once the relevant document is produced, there exists a contract between you and the authorities - which means if you do not cease your 'activity' you are liable to further action.

'Legal' and 'law' are two different things.

Karl


User currently offlinechris78cpr From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2822 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7601 times:

Recently flew LHR-LAX-LAS-LAX-LHR with my carbon manfrotto in my carry on and was not questioned once either. Tripods seem to be perfectly fine to take on board a plane these days.

I did once get asked to check it in during a flight home from Tokyo but i think i argued to the point where they let me on with it!



5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
User currently offlineconoramoia From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7469 times:

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the replies, just know that I'm reeading each one  

I think that I'll carry my tripod next time.
Keep up the stories, very entertaining and informative


Regards,

Conor


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7350 times:

The scariest thing are those messages that are broadcast over the loudspeakers in U.S. airports that start out with "In the interest of aviation security..." and goes on to say for people to "report any items or suspicious activity to 911", which will get someone paranoid to start calling the cops.

Quoting acontador (Reply 11):
Of course, once back home I recovered all the deleted shots with the appropriate software, so nothing was lost, but at some point I have to admit I was really scared!

What software is that?

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 13):
I'd like to see them try to charge me with trespassing if I have a ticket and I want to take pictures out their window. The person that confronted me was a food services employee on her break.

Seriously? a food service employee? tell her to go back to flipping her burgers and make sure she washes her hands when she gets off break.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 12):
Maybe not "illegal", but perhaps not permitted in some. If the terminal is privately owned/operated (I know at least some of the terminals at JFK fall into that category), the operator can institute a "no photography" policy, and ask you to stop taking photos. If you refuse, you can be asked to leave, or face trespassing charges. It is the same situation as taking photos at a shopping mall - it is private property that is open to the public, and the owners can place restrictions on your activities while on the property.

Now this is a gray area... Megatop brought up a good point. The terminal enforcement can ask you to stop taking pictures if you are taking pictures inside their terminal if it is a privately owned terminal. However, you are taking pictures out on the airfield - which is NOT privately owned. That ramp, airfield, runway, taxiway etc was more than likely built using US tax dollars through PFC, AIP Funds, grants, government bonds etc. The subject you are taking a picture of is on public property.


User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2350 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 17):
The subject you are taking a picture of is on public property.

If I understand your statement, you are saying that I can be on private property as long as the subject is on public property...sorry, you have that backwards. I can be on public property, and photograph anything that is readily visible on private property, with few limitations. When you are on private property, you are subject to limits, regardless of what you are photographing. As an example, if I am standing in the street, I can photograph your house all I want, and you have little recourse to legally stop me. However, if I go onto your lawn to take photographs of the street, you can legally tell me to stop.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineAndrewPF From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6976 times:

I know at BOS you have to call the media director of Massport (owns and operates BOS), and tell him some details, and he'll send you an email that you carry with you as a spotter and show it to any officer who questions you. It says that you're a spotter, who you are, where you'll be and when you'll be there and that you're not a security risk.

I'm taking mine and going for the first time tomorrow afternoon. Will report back with success/any issues.


User currently offlineAndrewPF From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6886 times:

Spotting at BOS went off without a hitch. Not even a question from security.

User currently offlinebjcc From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 327 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6819 times:

As far as the UK is concerned, the views expressed here are rubbish.
'Authorties' do not need to back up a claim you broke rules in writing. Does a Policeman need to show you a copy of the Road Traffic Act before he asks for a breath test? No of course not.
There does not have to be a sign prohibiting an act on private premises, there's no sign saying it's an offence to be drunk in a pub, but it is!
As far as BAA airports are concerned, then they don't like photography much. There are by laws which give them copyright over photos taken on their property, and I'd also suggest, although in the 11 years I was a Policeman at Heathrow they never asked for it to be used, you look at the official secrets act in respect of photographing prohibited places and what one of those is. Thats ignoring the 'catch all' by law which prohibits any act that interferes with the smooth running of the airport.
Again, as far as the UK is concerned, an airport is private property and the owners can do almost anything they like, and there's very little in the way of come back.


User currently offlinemegatop412 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

Quoting bjcc (Reply 21):
'Authorties' do not need to back up a claim you broke rules in writing. Does a Policeman need to show you a copy of the Road Traffic Act before he asks for a breath test? No of course not.
There does not have to be a sign prohibiting an act on private premises, there's no sign saying it's an offence to be drunk in a pub, but it is!

Maybe in the UK they don't, but in America, citizens are protected by something called civil liberties which thousands of people died to protect. These liberties are what protect us from tyrannical acts such as not having to provide proof of law when attempting to prosecute someone for violating that law.

And lets not abandon our common sense here- public drunkeness obviously should not require the police to produce documentation in order to arrest someone. That's ridiculous and it's comparing apples to oranges. Someone trying to arrest me for taking a picture while I'm inside an airport better come prepared to show me the exact law I'm breaking, unless they are looking for a civil rights lawsuit.

Photography inside the terminal(except by the security areas, where it is clearly posted) is not a criminal act, and everyone here used to know that.


User currently offlinebjcc From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 327 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6411 times:

I think you'll find that the 2 things are the same. The only difference is that you don't like the idea of one of them.
There's no country in the world, where arrest is 'an attempt to prosecute'. The object of arrest is to prevent crime or to facilitate investigation of it.

Anyway, if you say thats the case in the US, then so be it, but you most certainly are not correct in respect of the UK. A Police Officer does not have to provide anyone with evidence of there being legislation in existence, nor does there have to be sign age saying there is law allowing or preventing something at the time of arrest or warning you. The principle of ignorance of the law is not a defence.

As the US principles of law are based on the UK's, I doubt if the real situation, as opposed to your opinion, is any different there.


User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

My experience is a bit limited (only ORY and LHR) but I have never had problems in either. A very nice security guard actually saw me shooting in LHR Terminal 5B last time and actually suggested I go down to the other end of the building where the windows had just been cleaned! I asked a gendarme in Orly if there was any policy on photography and he said that he did not know of any, that it was no problem.

I suppose if you are stopped just be polite and reasonable, and don't cause a scene while shooting, but I know the vast majority of airliners.net photogs have a solid head on their shoulders so that shouldn't be a problem.



Speedbird Concorde One
25 megatop412 : Really? So, if you go to arrest me and I ask you what law I've broken, you don't have to say anything to me? Don't police officers have to commit to
26 Post contains links avion660 : Some useful UK related advice from the Met police.... http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm Note the bits about "Members of the public and th
27 flyrfd123 : I'm an Ops Supervisor and Terminal Manager at KRFD. Photography in the terminal buildings is not prohibited and you won't be hassled. However, a word
28 727LOVER : As far as LAX, isn't TMZ and papparazi filming and shooting celebrities in the terminal all the time??? Before 9/11, couldn't they go through securit
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