vishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 366 posts, RR: 10 Posted (4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2958 times:
As a Member of the Global Spotting Community & a fellow Anet Contributor - I want to request you to PLEASE look into the type of photos you are promoting.
I understand driving site traffic is important & no one has a problem with it, neither does anyone have a problem with promoting Important / Newsworthy Images.
Anet is lucky to have a Vast pool of images to choose from for promotion, and I doubt the the site traffic will be affected in ANYWAY, if you just held-off in promoting Freshly Acceptednon-newsworthy, routine & un-Important photos (in the context of promotion) as they are drowning-out Good Images.
Please try to understand that a promoted photo almost instantly gains ~1k hits in a matter of 20odd minutes & another significant amount in the following hour(s) completely skewing the Meritocracy of the Top 5.
I love the website & despite the turbulent romance - i'm Here & most probably here to stay.
Anyways, as a personal request if you can PLEASE only promote shots which have completed 24hours in the system or are Important & Newsworthy.
Thank you for your time & i look forward to a healthy discussion on this
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4041 posts, RR: 31 Reply 1, posted (4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2936 times:
Like I have said before, why can't the shots that reach the front page be the ones that are promoted, and not vice versa? In other words, let the Top of 24 hours be what it's intended to be and then promote those images after they have reached their spots naturally?
I understand the power of social media and the need for traffic. I understand this more than ever now because I now work behind the scenes for a website myself. It would be great if we could work out a system that makes both sides happy. That's all we ask.
[Edited 2012-01-15 15:42:00]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
RonS From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 758 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (4 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2909 times:
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1): It would be great if we could work out a system that makes both sides happy.
Ryan hits the point exactly. We can come up with a better method to what is currently in place, I'm sure of it. This is a hobby of very smart members (heck some of them even fly planes!), I'm positive we can talk further on this to make some changes to the social media (SM) postings to keep generating increased site traffic while making things a bit more fair for the contributors.
Let's get some more ideas from the staff and contributors to see how we can improve what is currently being done. Right now there are many unhappy photographers that view the SM efforts as unfair. I understand it is not intentional to be unfair, and Paul may go out of his way to try to be as fair as he possibly can. I think he and the staff are doing a great job, so this issue should not be viewed as an attack against Anet staff. It's a chance to intelligently discuss these issues and find a way to meet the site's needs and the photog's needs.
But when the Top 5 of the last 24 hours, essentially the front page, is being controlled by whatever the powers at be decide to promote on FB, the system is failed because it is inherently unfair. It's not what it was designed to be. It used to be people come to the site and the photo that is the most popular, that the public goes out of their way to view, gets the most views and makes it's way to the front page. On its merit the photo is awarded a coveted spot on the front page, generating even more views for the site and the photographer. Now what we have is a Top 5 of the last 24 hours front page that is part merit, and part put there by someone. And when I say put there, there is really no other way to say it. Almost all the photos that are promoted on Anets Facebook page go to the front page, sometimes knocking out or down photos that got there on their own, and blocking ones that would have gotten there on their own.
I know myself and many others have thanked Anet for promoting their shots. At first, it is great to get all those extra views and exposure. But I have soon realized that my photo didn't deserve to be on the FP, blocking or knocking down someone else's hard work. I want to get those views and reach the front page on my own. It means more to reach on merit, and not an arbitrary reason...such as someone decided to promote the shot on SM. And I certainly don't want to get blocked from reaching the FP by a shot that was promoted, just as much as I don't want to block anyone either.
We've discussed waiting 24 hours to post a photo unless it is newsworthy. I still think that is an option, but Anet staff may disagree still. I ask that you seriously reconsider it again though.
Maybe some of the web designers can think of another way, maybe have a section of the front page that only shows social media photos, I am not sure. What I am sure of is that the system needs to be improved on and that we can come up with something that meets staff and contributor goals.
Perhaps we wait to promote shots once they already reach the front page or top 15 photographer's choice section.
Let's toss some more ideas around. Let's have a discussion here where you can say "hey, I'm not happy with this" and work to try to fix it. SM is here to stay, and I applaud Anet for realizing its power and benefits and trying to increase site traffic. But I think we can establish some better procedures for its use.
Thank you!
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
dlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 5149 posts, RR: 36 Reply 3, posted (4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2888 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD SCREENER
Unless you guys have some empirical proof (and I know Paul will back this up), every effort is made to wait for the 24-hour window to pass for images that did not reach the front page on their own, or are not priority. I don't see any image that has been posted on the social media in the past 24 hours that was either a) not already featured on the front page b) priority/newsworthy, or c) outside of the 24-hour window. Where are you guys seeing all of these newly added images displacing the 'more deserving' images because they were featured on the social media? Or is it just me because I don't obsessively follow how many hits newly added images are getting?
darthluke12694 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2855 times:
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 3): Where are you guys seeing all of these newly added images displacing the 'more deserving' images because they were featured on the social media? Or is it just me because I don't obsessively follow how many hits newly added images are getting?
I agree with you. I visit this site at least 5 times a day, if not more. I would say almost every time I visit this site, the top 5 pictures are deserving of their top 5 spot. The picture is usually unique in some way, whether it is a cockpit shot, airport overview, unique paint scheme, etc. If I go through and look through all of the shots that were uploaded today, I don't usually see a picture that is "more deserving" then the ones that are already on the top 5. In fact, half the pictures I see on airliners.net Facebook page I don't even remember seeing them on the top 5 at any time (but maybe I am wrong on that).
Just my opinion.
KBNA - "To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home."
RonS From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 758 posts, RR: 29 Reply 5, posted (4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2853 times:
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 3): every effort is made to wait for the 24-hour window to pass
No, that is not correct. The last message on the forum from Paul said he wasn't waiting the 24 hours anymore. From what I have seen, he is not.
Dana, I happen to know you are one of the most hardest working of the hard working screeners here, so that is why you probably are unaware of the impact promoted shots have on the front page. I thank you for that dedication, and if you don't want to take our word for it, let's try it out.
Tuesday morning at 0700 accept a shot and promote it on FB right away. If it doesn't reach the front page I for one won't ever mention this specific issue again.
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 3): Or is it just me because I don't obsessively follow how many hits newly added images are getting?
It's not only you that may not realize, I'm sure there are others, but I believe it to be fact, the impact SM promotions have on the FP. Also, I don't obsessively follow hits. Come on man...It's quite easy to dismiss what I think is a valid concern by brushing us off, saying "oh well if those hit seekers weren't obsessive about stats" blah blah blah it wouldn't be an issue. Let's stay positive, not point fingers (I'm think we're all trying not to, but rather point out an issue) and come up with a better solution to the problem.
[Edited 2012-01-15 18:21:24]
[Edited 2012-01-15 18:33:07]
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 6497 posts, RR: 29 Reply 6, posted (4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2851 times:
Quoting RonS (Reply 2):
We've discussed waiting 24 hours to post a photo unless it is newsworthy. I still think that is an option, but Anet staff may disagree still. I ask that you seriously reconsider it again though.
I believe they tried that and it didn't work out so well. Obviously I'm not privy to traffic numbers, so I have to take them at their word. But I have no problem taking Paul at his word.
With that said, I barely log onto Facebook anymore, and I've never used Twitter. Occasionally, I'll notice that one of my photos randomly got a bunch of hits, and I'll see if it was posted on Facebook. The last two photos that I had posted there were WELL past 24 hours in the database.
I have to admit, I have no idea why those two images were posted....but they certainly did not influence the Top 5.
The spirit of Massachusetts is the spirit of America!
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4041 posts, RR: 31 Reply 7, posted (4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 3): Unless you guys have some empirical proof (and I know Paul will back this up), every effort is made to wait for the 24-hour window to pass for images that did not reach the front page on their own, or are not priority. I don't see any image that has been posted on the social media in the past 24 hours that was either a) not already featured on the front page b) priority/newsworthy, or c) outside of the 24-hour window. Where are you guys seeing all of these newly added images displacing the 'more deserving' images because they were featured on the social media? Or is it just me because I don't obsessively follow how many hits newly added images are getting?
I have first-hand experience with shots landing on the front page because they were promoted. I had two people contact me and tell me that after I had two shots on the front page...a friend on Flickr (where I posted the same shot), and an airliners.net crew member. I was excited that they made the front page, but after first congratulating me, they pointed out the reality that they were promoted on Facebook. It was still nice to get the exposure, but once I learned that it just didn't feel as special. I almost felt cheated.
[Edited 2012-01-15 18:31:52]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
unattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2151 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2821 times:
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 3): Unless you guys have some empirical proof (and I know Paul will back this up), every effort is made to wait for the 24-hour window to pass for images that did not reach the front page on their own, or are not priority.
As I write this, there is a photo of a Thomson 767 in great light that was accepted to the database 22 hours ago and posted to facebook 9 hours ago. So 13 hours into its first 24, it garners facebook credit and now it sits at the number 2 position behind a priority upload that was also (rightly so) posted to facebook.
dlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 5149 posts, RR: 36 Reply 9, posted (4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2811 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD SCREENER
Quoting RonS (Reply 5): and if you don't want to take our word for it, let's try it out.
Tuesday morning at 0700 accept a shot and promote it on FB right away. If it doesn't reach the front page I for one won't ever mention this specific issue again.
I'm not arguing with the impact that featuring an image in the social media has. Having an image featured easily garners 1000+ hits, I don't dispute this.
Quoting RonS (Reply 5): No, that is not correct. The last message on the forum from Paul said he wasn't waiting the 24 hours anymore. From what I have seen, he is not.
Please read my comments again. I said every effort is made. Perhaps you misinterpreted that. I'll try to be more clear. While the occasional image that has not passed the 24-hour window, and is not priority, and has not already made the front page may be featured, that is by far in the minority, and every effort is made to wait the 24 hours though this doesn't always happen.
Quoting RonS (Reply 2): But when the Top 5 of the last 24 hours, essentially the front page, is being controlled by whatever the powers at be decide to promote on FB, the system is failed because it is inherently unfair.
Which of the current top 5 (or any in the past 24 hours, as I pointed out) made it solely based on being featured in the social media which otherwise wouldn't have made the front page? None. This is my point. It may happen, but it is very rare, and hardly worth making a big deal out of, imho.
Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 8): As I write this, there is a photo of a Thomson 767 in great light that was accepted to the database 22 hours ago and posted to facebook 9 hours ago. So 13 hours into its first 24, it garners facebook credit and now it sits at the number 2 position behind a priority upload that was also (rightly so) posted to facebook.
Exactly, thank you for furthering my point. One made it to the front page on merit, and was then featured in the social media, and the other was priority. What is the issue here? Which of them did not deserve to be featured?
Whenever I'm online, facebook's generally on too. It only takes a quick cross data check to see when the photo was accepted. I can name at least 2 instances where my photos have been destined for the front page by being far ahead of the photos accepted after my own, only for 5 pictures that were just as newsworthy as mine to be published however mine was never published within the 24 hr slot (unlike others), ended up 6th of 24 hrs and never had the fair chance it deserved.
I'm not sure if you appreciate the hard work that goes into an image and then have your morale beaten to the ground as those images ahead of yours were not newsworthy; yet they take your place on the (what was) prestigious front page.
Of course there's no doubt that there is a chance that the image may not have made it to the front page; but we'll never know now.
spencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1609 posts, RR: 23 Reply 12, posted (4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2666 times:
This is quite funny as recently I had an image promoted on FB, that has been live here on a.net for over a year. I always felt it deserved a lot more "hits" than it had so I was very pleased to see it gain around 2000 extra views thanks to this implementation.
Now, having said that and in preparation for some flak, I do agree there's some weird choices (IMO) as to what goes on FB. I suppose it's swings and roundabouts at the end of the day and what pleases one person could subsequently annoy another. Personally I don't really care what gets shown. It will never be a fair spread no matter how you look at it.
Spence
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
RonS From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 758 posts, RR: 29 Reply 13, posted (4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2638 times:
Quoting spencer (Reply 12): I do agree there's some weird choices (IMO) as to what goes on FB.
I'm going to concentrate on the when, not the what. If the staff choose to promote a different Cessna 152 that is tied down on a ramp every single day, so be it, it't not my site and I'm going to try not to question it. My issue is the when. If that same Cessna 152 (sorry cessna lol) get's promoted right after acceptance, it will likely reach the front page, blocking out shots that were going to get there on merit from the site viewers.
I would like to find a way to keep the Top 5 of the last 24 hours based on Merit, like Vishal mentions. Waiting 24 hours would do that, and I'm sure there are other ways.
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 9): Which of the current top 5 (or any in the past 24 hours, as I pointed out) made it solely based on being featured in the social media which otherwise wouldn't have made the front page?
I'm not going to point out anyones shots and say they wouldn't have made it. But it is quite obvious to me some do make it solely for the reason staff here promoted it on FB. I for one, know from experience, at least two of my own shots would not have made the front page if it wasn't for someone promoting them. Great, right? No, because my shot blocked someone at the #6th place, someone who's shot the regular site viewers were interested enough to view on their own and that person missed out because my shot was promoted.
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 9): While the occasional image that has not passed the 24-hour window, and is not priority, and has not already made the front page may be featured, that is by far in the minority
Dana, I don't sit around and collect this data. You seem willing to say it does happen, but it is by far the minority. I don't think I would say it quite like that, I think it happens a bit more often. But whatever, lets move forward so it never happens. Because even once, it is an unfair system and flawed, that one photographer at #6 missed out on thousands of views, exposure and accomplishment, all because a newly accepted shot was arbitrarily promoted on FB by staff? Even if it happens as you say, in the minority, I find it wrong and quite easy to fix. Let's fix it and not worry how many times it happens, because like I mentioned above, even if it happens only once, it isn't right. thanks
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
darthluke12694 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2561 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 11): I'm not sure if you appreciate the hard work that goes into an image and then have your morale beaten to the ground as those images ahead of yours were not newsworthy; yet they take your place on the (what was) prestigious front page.
Of course there's no doubt that there is a chance that the image may not have made it to the front page; but we'll never know now.
Yes I agree with that too. But surely you know when a photo has the chance to make it to the front page. An average side shot of a plane probably isn't "unique" enough to make it to the front page. I don't mean any disrespect but maybe you are expecting too much out of your pictures.
I do apprecite the hard work that goes into putting pictures on anet.... Because it is hard work. But just because your photo doesn't make it to the front page doesn't mean that your moral should take a beating. If everyone was like that then no one would be uploading pictures to anet.
KBNA - "To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home."
spencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1609 posts, RR: 23 Reply 15, posted (4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2544 times:
Just for the record I've only recently seen this a.net thingy on FB. I was unaware generally how it works and what goes on! After seeing two(!) of my photos being shown, that have been live for well over a year, I thought it was down to fans requesting them. I haven't read through this entire thread (sorry) so if it is something like that as well then I stand corrected.
But yes Ronny, I agree it could be very "unfair" promotion for images not already in the deserved top spots. Then again I don't click on anything I don't like from a thumb anyway.
Spence
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 6497 posts, RR: 29 Reply 16, posted (4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2539 times:
Some food for thought:
I don't know the data regarding where A.net's traffic comes from. But say 75% of it comes through Social Media. Are we supposed to discount 75% of the views our photos get as "unfair"? What if 95% of the traffic comes from Social Media? Did my photo actually get 50 "real" hits, instead of 1000?
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 11):
I'm not sure if you appreciate the hard work that goes into an image and then have your morale beaten to the ground as those images ahead of yours were not newsworthy; yet they take your place on the (what was) prestigious front page.
Do people really take the front page of A.net THAT seriously? Don't get me wrong, I love it when my photos get there (or even get to the top 15), but is it such a matter of life and death?
Much as I love this site, it is not the be-all and end-all of my airplane photography hobby. I've had photos that I thought were sure-fire 1000+ view photos, that have actually gotten 100, and other photos I thought were relatively mundane, that for whatever reason garnered hundreds and hundreds (even thousands) of hits. One of the recent photos of mine that was posted on Facebook (months after its acceptance) actually made me cringe a bit, as I don't think it's one of my better ones. But hey, maybe other people liked it.
Yes, I appreciate the hard work that goes into an image - trust me, I probably put more time in per image than most people. The difference is that my morale does not get beaten to the ground based on A.net's image views. Maybe I simply haven't had enough images in the Top 5 to really care....
The spirit of Massachusetts is the spirit of America!
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4041 posts, RR: 31 Reply 17, posted (4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2526 times:
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 16): Do people really take the front page of A.net THAT seriously? Don't get me wrong, I love it when my photos get there (or even get to the top 15), but is it such a matter of life and death?
For me, reaching the front page was one of many goals. The first time I was so incredibly proud. I had spent years looking at the most amazing photos earn their coveted spot on the front page and I dreamed of a day when I could know what that's like. I was much younger, so I cared more than I should have I guess. It meant a lot more to me back then. But it always felt so far out of reach so when I actually did it, I was incredibly proud.
I still like having shots reach the front page and its still an accomplishment I am proud of...when I rightfully earned that spot.
With that said, no. It certainly isn't life or death.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
vishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2494 times:
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 3): Unless you guys have some empirical proof
Dana, i am a little taken-aback to with that statement of yours, i dont mean to say that you need to be watching Everything that is promoted etc...... No!
However, i wouldnt make this post if it wasnt a major issue.
I barely upload a photo a month but, i do follow the site all the time, on my mobile while to-from work / elsewhere, at home etc
So since You seem oblivious to its existence, i'll try explaining with my own shot since you & others may get the chance to call me names if i provided examples of others.
So when i saw it there, i though to my self 'oh-well, matter of time..... and went about browsing other images.
Just then, there was this pop-up on my twitter-app, exactly 10 mins later my photo went to # 7, a photo cycled-out off the Top-5 & my photo went to # 6.
I banged my keyboard, shut-down the computer & since it was my day-off from work, went-out to play Cricket with my mates, after 2~3 hours of playing we sat around chit-chatting, went out to snack.
I came home early in the night, took a shower, read the newspaper, double-click on Google Chrome - Home Page Top of 24 | My Photo still #6 - that is so Sweet
It just turns-out that this so-so photo also happened to be voted as Photographer's Choice
Quoting dlowwa (Reply 3): is it just me because I don't obsessively follow how many hits newly added images are getting?
Dana, mate, i respectfully request you to please reserve the sarcasm for someone who just wants to make an issue & dosent give a damn about things.
Thats the last thing i expected to hear for bringing-up 'a wrong' in (what is) the most appropriate place to bring up such a thing for discussion - The Aviation Photography Forum.
So you can call it whatever you want to but the simplest way to provide examples is:
Click that and Sort in order of popularity. You can do that for any day of the year. Many will be able to tell what was blocked & what was promoted.
Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 4): half the pictures I see on airliners.net Facebook page I don't even remember seeing them on the top 5 at any time (but maybe I am wrong on that)
Ryan, A.net promotes lot of images everyday.
Not all are freshly accepted images & therefore you wouldnt see them in the Top 5.
So Yes you are Wrong on that.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 16): Do people really take the front page of A.net THAT seriously? Don't get me wrong, I love it when my photos get there (or even get to the top 15), but is it such a matter of life and death?
People who put efforts into shooting & uploading the kind of images that they do + spend BIG on their gear etc. etc. etc. have every right to expect attention on their work.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 16): Maybe I simply haven't had enough images in the Top 5 to really care....
ghajdufi From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 166 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2479 times:
I would like to join the group of photographers who aren't happy with effects of the SM postings.
I do understand that site traffic is the most important element of DM's business model but I find it equally important to let site management know that some of the contributors aren't entirely content right now. I am sure we will find a solution to satisfy both parties.
One more thing about the Facebook, Twitter posts. Has it been to considered to add the photographer's name to each post? I would find it a great addition.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 6497 posts, RR: 29 Reply 20, posted (4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2474 times:
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 17): For me, reaching the front page was one of many goals. The first time I was so incredibly proud. I had spent years looking at the most amazing photos earn their coveted spot on the front page and I dreamed of a day when I could know what that's like. I was much younger, so I cared more than I should have I guess. It meant a lot more to me back then. But it always felt so far out of reach so when I actually did it, I was incredibly proud.
I completely agree. And I still am proud when one of my shots gets there.
Quoting vishaljo (Reply 18):
People who put efforts into shooting & uploading the kind of images that they do spend BIG on their gear etc. etc. etc. have every right to expect attention on their work.
Are you saying I don't put effort into shooting and uploading?
Spending BIG on my gear is not anyone else's concern, and is completely irrelevant. Actually, come to think of it, so is the effort required. It may take me much more effort to get a good image than you, or any more experienced photographer. So does that mean I am more deserving of a spot in the Top 5?
So......those of you who have had many images in the Top 5 are complaining that you don't have more, while those of us who haven't had many are quite happy with what we get?
Meaning no offense, Vishal - this is all in the spirit of lively debate, of course.
The spirit of Massachusetts is the spirit of America!
vishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2446 times:
Request: Vikram - i dont want to go off-topic, the OP explains the problem.
This thread will be red in the eyes of the moderation team & any deviation will be pounced-upon to lock this thread up.
I DO NOT WANT THAT. End of our discussion & back to the OP.
sovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2206 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2440 times:
Vishal, do you upload every photo expecting it to make top 5 or photog choice? If so, you need to step off the pedestal. I notice many of your most recent uploads have a high amount of hits I suppose due to top 5 or photog choice. You seem to scrutinize the hits so in that fashion, if you consider your 747 photo "so-so" (which I actually consider more than just so-so) how did some of your other photos get such high hits? No offense, but there's nothing special about a side-on of a static French Rafale or F-16, makes someone wonder what you're doing "behind the curtains" to guarantee they get "deserved hits"?
Quoting vishaljo (Reply 18): I banged my keyboard, shut-down the computer
You need to calm down my friend. Big deal, your photo didn't make top 5. Yet it made photog choice, got over 20k hits and you're still complaining?
Quoting vishaljo (Reply 18): Just then, there was this pop-up on my twitter-app, exactly 10 mins later my photo went to # 7, a photo cycled-out off the Top-5 & my photo went to # 6.
This is a.net, you should fully expect an A-380 photo to out-do a 747 photo
That said, I do agree that social media promotion should be done after the 24 hour mark. Simple as that and it's only fair. I'm not much of a hit counter myself, even though my photos have made top 5 many times, there's also been many times that I didn't even notice my photo made top 5 until days after it happened.
vishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2422 times:
Quoting sovietjet (Reply 22): if you consider your 747 photo "so-so" (which I actually consider more than just so-so)
Ivan that was a tongue-in-cheek reference
Quoting sovietjet (Reply 22): No offense, but there's nothing special about a side-on of a static French Rafale or F-16, makes someone wonder what you're doing
Besides, try finding proper military shots from India except from Yelahanka where the bi-centennial airshow is held and you have your answer.
Quoting sovietjet (Reply 22): your photo didn't make top 5. Yet it made photog choice, got over 20k hits and you're still complaining?
Not complaining at all about my photo, i was replying to Dana as he said such promotions werent happening.
And my photo eventually made it into the Top 5 (albeit for a brief while) after spending hours at # 6
RonS From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 758 posts, RR: 29 Reply 24, posted (4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2372 times:
Quoting sovietjet (Reply 22): You seem to scrutinize the hits so in that fashion
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20): So......those of you who have had many images in the Top 5 are complaining that you don't have more, while those of us who haven't had many are quite happy with what we get?
It's not about hits. Say it with me folks! "It's not about hits!" If it was, I would be asking Anet to promote my shots every chance I get. Because...wait for it...I do actually care about hits! Ahh, I said it, I feel so liberated! lol No shame here
I'm just playing around guys, but seriously, this argument is not about hits. You're more than welcome to take that approach, and say to me "oh he's just upset because he likes hits." It's an argument that gets played out here time and time again when someone brings up what they feel to be a valid concern.
Yes, I do like hits. But the hits I want are the fair hits, based on merit from those that view the site. This is the difference, I don't want to get hits at the expense of anyone else, because someone on staff likes Boston and doesn't like LAX or vice versa. Let's wait till after the 24 hours passes, and then promote whatever you want whenever. What I'm saying is, let's make it as fair as possible for all.
I rather get 200 hits on a photo I like than 20K hits on a photo that Staff decided they wanted to promote on FB, because I didn't get those hits on merit and I took it away from someone else. I appreciate the staff promoting my shots when they do, I hope nobody here thinks I don't. I just think we could harness the power of SM in a way in a way that ensures fairness better than what we do now, while getting DM the site traffic that they are striving for.
Here's my promise to Anet, we'll keep working to provide you with the most incredible aviation photos from around the world, you take our concerns seriously and see what you can do to work with us. Happy photographers produce better images and better images produce more traffic for your guys! Win Win
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
25 dlowwa: Oblivious to the existence of what? Not quite sure what you're asking, but anyway, it wasn't sarcasm, just a simple, honest, observation. What was bl
26 vishaljo: here: I dont know why there's such a problem with Interpretation when you know that it was a reply to a previous post. Nobody buys Big Expensive gear
27 clickhappy: That's your problem, right there. It's a photo. As long as you are proud of it, who cares how many people have viewed it?
28 megatop412: Bingo, someone finally said it, thank you
29 ghajdufi: There has always been a misunderstanding about this subject whenever it came up here in the forums. It is NOT about the HITS , that isn't what Vishal
30 flood: So when are you guys doing away with the whole view count thing? Positive comments and ratings, combined with high view counts convey a sense of appr
31 JakTrax: Guys, why are you getting so worked up about all of this? This is what sites like this can do - make us competitive, bitter and resentful. I'm always
32 dazbo5: Since this debate was sparked by my photo of the First Choice (Thomson) 767, I thought I'd better comment! I was very surprised to see it made the 2nd
33 PanAm_DC10: Hi All, Thanks for your input and feedback. Vishal, you have 129 shots on site, a quick check of them shows at least 6 posted on Social Media, hopeful
34 JakTrax: We keep hearing this 'merits' thing but really, what 'merits' does a photo featuring a brand new livery or similar have? This one of mine made 'top of
35 unattendedbag: Most of the "nay" sayers to this topic have, while questioning the relevance of the argument, confirmed that there is merit and appreciation in havin
36 vikkyvik: Appreciation, certainly. Merit? I don't think I would ever consider one of my photos more deserving than someone else's. Anyway, what you stated isn'
37 Africaspotter: Well, most people on facebook click on any of the links. Simply because. A good example is the last post, which is this photo http://www.airliners.net
38 Silver1SWA: Vik, the fact is that when a photo is posted to Facebook it get's hundreds, often thousands of hits regardless of what kind of shot it is. This is wh
39 Africaspotter: Btw, here goes another one right behind it... Just added to the db an hour ago, put on facebook and already more than 1000 hits... As if Sam needed hi
40 vikkyvik: Ryan, trust me, I understand the argument. But I have to assume that those who click on a particular photo want to see that particular photo, whether
41 Africaspotter: Yes, we are discussing hits, we are discussing attention, but also the identity of a.net Facebook is a strange phenomena. Some people use youtube as a
42 Silver1SWA: In the days before social media postings, photos reached the front page on their own simply because the viewers spoke. Viewers came to the site and w
43 McG1967: We know that there is a link between photos promoted via social media by A.net & the number of hits that the social media generates for that parti
44 Africaspotter: Hi, interesting idea, but how would the clicks from facebook count? Only after 24hrs? And what about clicks from other facebook pages? In my opinion i
45 Silver1SWA: This is a good point, and one I meant to edit into my last reply. Many of us are "guilty" of self promotion via social media. I do it, and I follow a
46 vishaljo: Paul, thank you for coming here to post. Please forgive me but, i couldnt make much out from your diplomatic language. (no disrespect meant) In the h
47 dlowwa: In simple English: each of those three images was either already on the front page or next in line to be when they were posted, so nobody 'lost out'
48 vishaljo: Dana, i went by the info in the emails as i was away & very busy for a long time. Yes you're right, i just copy-pasted it in haste (Its been a ver
49 unattendedbag: They were not. Just to give some credibility to these statements (since we are looking for empirical evidence), they were numbers 6, 7 and 9 on the l
50 megatop412: This thread has raged on for over 2 days now and I still don't understand what the big deal is. So what some photos get more hits than others because
51 Drewski2112: Spot on, this. If you take pictures of airplanes solely for view counts and attention, you've got some self esteem problems you need to work on.
52 dlowwa: = they were 1st, 2nd, and 4th in line for the front page, no? Thank you for again confirming what I said. Well said.
53 unattendedbag: That's a whole lot of "I"s in that paragraph. That is correct. But there are ways to ensure unfairness. Let's take this to the extreme, because if yo
54 unattendedbag: All I'm saying is, if I had been number 6 and headed for the front page, I would have been dismayed to see two photos come from no where and push me
55 PMN: You and me both. I've just sat and wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this thread, and frankly it contains some of the most petty nonsense I've eve
56 Africaspotter: Hi all, I should have taken screenshots last night... I was actually sitting in front of the TV and browsing the a.net forums, when I stumbled across
57 moderators: This thread will be archived as it has run its course. Questions were asked and we believe sufficient answers provided by respective crew members of t
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