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Apparent Unauthorized Use Of My Pix  
User currently offlinejelpee From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 142 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8994 times:

I found out that the NY Daily News used one of images from a.net for a recent story. Here's the story:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...in-total-travel-time-train-station

Here's the image from a.net: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta...r-Lines/Airbus-A319-114/1975276/L/

Looks like the watermark was cropped and some artwork inserted on to the fuselage, but it sure looks like my image. The source says "handout/Delta". I e-mailed the NY Daily News last week about it but have not heard back. Not sure if the NYDN is the responsible party or if Delta is. At the very least, a photo credit would have been courteous.

Any thougts?

Jehan

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1295 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8969 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

Quoting jelpee (Thread starter):
I found out that the NY Daily News used one of images from a.net for a recent story. Here's the story:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...in-total-travel-time-train-station

It certainly looks like you picture and it also appears that there is digital manipulation of it.

While there is a certain leeway for use of an image for editorial purposes, this appears to fall outside that scope for the following reasons:

1. The author (i.e. you) has not been credited.
2. The original picture has been manipulated.

This could be done by either by the newspaper or by whoever they got the picture from.

I recommend you email the editor and photo editor at NY Daily News a proof of your shot and side by side their use of your picture (if you have not already done that). Who did you email before?

Keep us posted of the outcome.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1399 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8959 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

FYI If the image was copied by a First Class member there is no watermark to edit out.
To me it sure looks like the same image,



5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlinejelpee From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8925 times:

Thanks for the comments folks. I had sent an e-mail to the author of the article last week, but have not heard back from them. I need to find out how to get in touch with the editor and photo editor to lodge a formal complaint. I'll plan on calling them next week to find out the contact information.

Is anyone familar with the citation "Delta/Handout"? It makes it sound like the image was provided by Delta Airlines.

BTW, the way the image has been cropped, even a "non first class member" could have cropped the water mark off the image since it was placed at the bottom of the image. I have since begun to place the watermark 2/3rd of the way down.

Jehan


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8855 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Jehan,

I would take screen shots of the article and send hard copy of those and proof of your original image, perhaps including a link to the photo on this site to the photo editor and editor of the NY Daily.
Do this in writing not email, their physical address is available via the "contact us" link at the bottom of their home page.
See the earlier thread regarding copyright infringement fo further assistance.

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemat1979 From France, joined Dec 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8803 times:

Hi Jehan

I found out a couple of years ago that one picture of mine had been used on a commercial website without my approval.

After collecting all the proof, i asked them to pay 600€ (about 700$) for having used my picture and some more money if they wanted to continue using it.

Immediatly after receiving my letter (no email), the picture disappeared from their website. Hence the importance of collecting the proof and in a way that will be seen as valid by a court. Otherwise no proof, you get nothing but frustation. Check out what needs to be done, it may depend from country to country.

I needed a couple more letters and declaring my intention to go to court, and finally they sent me 600€.

I believe you should collect the proof, ask for the right amount of money from them, ask it formally, and show them you are ready to go to court. If this is your picture, you cannot lose, and they know it, so they will pay.


User currently offlineteopilot From Italy, joined Jul 2010, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8741 times:

Quoting mat1979 (Reply 5):
I believe you should collect the proof

Just to know... since it seems that you had already dealt with such a frustrating situation.

You said that you need to collect all the eveidence that your picture had been stolen and misused without your permission.

Well, I think that those mentioned proofs are:
1. the link to your picture on a.net
2. the "edited and resized" file that you uploaded on a.net (so without any watermak)
3. the original file, with all the exif data proving that you're right.

Is there anything else to be mentioned?


User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1295 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8722 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

Quoting jelpee (Reply 3):
I need to find out how to get in touch with the editor and photo editor to lodge a formal complaint. I'll plan on calling them next week to find out the contact information.

How ironic. They sell their pictures.

http://www.nydailynewspix.com/sales/products.php

this phone number may actually help you talk to someone that will get you to the right person:

"please contact us at photosales@dailynewspix.com or call 212-210-1620."

alternatively,

you can call the front desk and ask to speak to the photoeditor or editor:

Main phone number: (212) 210-2100

You can use their prices against them i.e. adjust your price to reflect their. You should tack on a "punitive fee" for flagrant violation. One note of caution, it might be a long shot to get anything out of them. Most likely, they will offer you photo credit to start off. However, i think you should raise hell and tell them that you are submitting this to whatever relevant ethics in journalism groups that you deem fit. Shame them into paying you and that may also go into stopping this in the future.

I have the feeling that they ran a picture that Delta PR folks gave them (i.e. your lifted picture that had been photoshopped with the logo) but since they ran it, it would be a good place to start. Just a thought. Good luck!



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlinemat1979 From France, joined Dec 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8719 times:

Teopilot

The proof are not to prove that you own the picture. If you go to court, you can show the original picture.

The proof are not to show the person who used your pic without paying for it that you own it. Just show him/her a link.

What you need is a proof that that person/company/website has indeed used that picture.

If you just email them, they will immediately remove the picture from their website. The picture has disappeared, if you cannot legally prove to the judge that it was there before, you cannot win.

In my country, a simple screenshot for exemple, is not valid. A google webpage cache is not valid. It does not prove the picture was there. Have to pay some kind of judicial officer to himself validate and make himself a screenshot following proper procedures (remove cookies, empty cache, etc).

Once you have a proof that can be used by a court, you get more info on the person/website/company who used your pic without paying.
You then sent them an invoice for as many dollars as you should receive, depending on picture usage, website traffic and visibility, watermark removing or not, digital manipulation or not, etc. The more visibility, and the more doctoring of your pic, the more you can ask.
So you send an invoice, and let them know that you have legal proof of their using your picture. If they wanna reduce the price, why not. If they just don't wanna pay or do not even reply to you, re-contact them a few times, and then go to see the justice. When they receive an appointment to meet the judge in a couple of months, you can be sure they'll be on the phone with you immediately to pay and avoid going to court. in any case, if you happen to have to go all the way to court, you cannot lose.

Now this is my experience from France. In other places it might be different. If you live in Italy and the person who used your pic lives in another country it will be difficult.
In my case, my pic was stolen by a free-lance writer to illustrate an article. This article was published by an italian web-editor company, which was belonging to a french web-editor group. I got paid my 600€ by the irish financial branch of this web-editor. I was going to sue the french web-editor when they finally agreed to pay.


User currently offlinejohnmiller From South Africa, joined Mar 2006, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8661 times:

Mat1979

That is very interesting. There is a French company currently using one of my images on their internet site and I have no idea how to legally verify this and who to approach. The company has removed my byline having taken the image off airliners.net


User currently offlinemat1979 From France, joined Dec 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 8306 times:

John, please send me email with link to your pic and french website. I'll try to give you advice, or do something for you.

Mat


User currently offlinejelpee From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8231 times:

So here's the update: I contacted the photo editing department at the NY Daily News and filed a polite complaint plus a claim for compensation. Here's the response I received:
----------------------------------
[Hello Jehan

The image in question was given to us by the Delta spokesperson Leslie Parker. We did not alter the image with the logo of the NY Rangers.

reg]
---------------------------------------

So....What should I do? Take the matter up with Delta? Would appreciate some input. It would seem pretty cheap if Delta had in fact misappropriated the image.

Jehan


User currently offlinemat1979 From France, joined Dec 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8227 times:

Jehan

NY Daily is the one using your pic. They have to pay. Then, they can go get their money back from Delta if it is indeed Delta who gave them this picture.

But for you, photographer and owner of the rights on this picture, you are being robbed by NY daily.

If you still can get legal proof that they are using and/or have been using your picture, send them the invoice, if no reply sue them.

YOU are the photographer. It is YOUR picture. You cannot lose. They will just pay, and next time around, will be more carefull and will not reply to your email with such a disrespectful answer.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8183 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting mat1979 (Reply 12):
NY Daily is the one using your pic. They have to pay. Then, they can go get their money back from Delta if it is indeed Delta who gave them this picture.

Not sure that is completely true, those more expert in US law may have a better feel for this.

It is my understanding that an organisation that provides an image for publicity purposes and assigns reproduction rights to that image, would be the party most liable for any compensation you may be entitled to.

It appears from what the NY Daily told you Delta has assumed ownership of your image**, and they should compensate you for that.


Cheers



** if indeed it is, as appears very likely, your image

[Edited 2012-05-31 03:32:53]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting mat1979 (Reply 5):
I needed a couple more letters and declaring my intention to go to court, and finally they sent me 600€.

This is very good news; I'm so glad that someone has finally taken the trouble to "hold some one's feet to the fire" and made them "pay up" ! kudos to mat1979 for that.

Quoting johnmiller (Reply 9):
Mat1979

That is very interesting. There is a French company currently using one of my images on their internet site and I have no idea how to legally verify this and who to approach. The company has removed my byline having taken the image off airliners.net

I have read many posts on this forum regarding this problem. Like most people, I have never had any idea how copy right laws work, and being very interested in the subject, I have been trying for some time now to find a book on the subject; As I tend to read a lot books, I often stop in book stores and just "browse around"; just recently, while having four hours to kill and nothing to read, I stopped in a "Books-a-Million" store, and before I even got in the front door, I stopped to look through all of the marked-down clearance items they always have on outdoor racks out on the sidewalk in good weather.

While picking through all of the third-rate unsold novels, I spotted what I have been looking for; "Copyright - Plain & Simple", by Cheryl Besenjak
ISBN 1-56414-273-6, $ 12.99
Career Press, Inc. 3 Tice Road, P.O. Box 687 Franklin Lakes. N.J. , 07417
or call toll-free 1-800-CAREER-1

I have not had time just yet to read the whole book, and I doubt that many would read the whole thing as one would read an ordinary book, as it is obviously about a very "dry", but none-the-less very important subject, and one which obviously affects most all of us. What I have read appears to be very well written, well organized and very well researched; and the author is someone who has been working in the field for many years, and as such, is not someone just collection a few facts in order to write a book.

If any member is desirous of increasing his or her knowledge of copyright law, and if you are not in a position to order a copy, I would be more than willing to lend you this one; just send me an IM or an email.





[quote=jelpee,reply=0]

Any thougts?

Jehan;

As Mat points out, you have a legitimate complaint; so did he; but unlike many, he had the patience and took the time to do something about it, and I'd say that it was well worth his time and effort. I hope you'll do the same.

Good luck!

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinejelpee From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7828 times:

Update: Since the NYDaily News referred me to Delta, I contacted Delta and received a resonse from them taking responsbility for having released the image to the NYDL and apologizing for what they referred to as an unintentional use of my photo including modifying it. They could not explain how the image was in their database, but they thought it was one for which they thought they had legitimate. However, they made no offer for compensation.

I responded back with an invoice for the use and upon receipt of payment agreed to grant them permission on a retroactive basis. Stay tuned!

Jehan


User currently offlineJoeyTaffy93 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7826 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Will be interested to see how this pans out. Nice to see you taking a stand though chap.


Flown: DP (A320)
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2272 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

Small claims court is also an option if you do not recieve any compensation.

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

Quoting mat1979 (Reply 12):


You are correct........... What "Jelpee" should do is call up the papers distribution department and request a hard copy of the issue. The entire issue...Without that you have nothing. The Daily news is the "end user" and using your image to further their income through the images use, therefore they are responsible for the compensation to the author of the image. If you pursue it have the issue date, page #, article name, editors name, etc. New York rags know the routine but get away with whatever they can. They are also aware that the average photographer will deem it a fruitless fight and soon abandoned the chase. Another words, they are betting you'll go away soon. They are probably correct however, if you convince them you mean business by throwing large #'s at them you may get something. I just settled another case w/out lawyers involving 8 of my images being published in a magazine unauthorized by myself, the author. Also...avoid emails...talk to a body on the phone and be calm. Let them know that your "intellectual property" is protected by copyright laws and that you, the author, never granted permission with or without compensation, the use of your image. It is not an easy position to be in but the fact remains...they are generating revenue by selling papers, stories and photos. They pay a pool of freelance photographers to cover their stories...why should you not also be compensated?!...good luck


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