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My Image Stolen To Be Used In A Calendar  
User currently offlineLarsEHAM From Netherlands, joined Sep 2010, 51 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7529 times:

Hi guys,
Today I found out that one of my photos is being used for a calendar, without my permission.
http://www.e-aeromodelismo.com.ar/almanaques/index.htm
Original image:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM--...d=199ef8b7595e9250187d63fd2403f1fd
What would be the best approach to this problem?
Should I try and get in contact with them to send them an invoice?
All suggestions are more then welcome.
Thanks!
Lars

p.s. I assume that the other photo's are most likely also stolen from A.net, if you recognize any of the photo's could you please direct the photographer attention to this topic?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9910 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7530 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Recognized the November photo immediately. It's the 4th most popular of all time on A.net (whether the photographer gave permission or not I don't know):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Patrick Lutz




"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1300 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7530 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

Quoting LarsEHAM (Thread starter):
What would be the best approach to this problem?
Should I try and get in contact with them to send them an invoice?
All suggestions are more then welcome.
Thanks!
Lars

You can contact them but also include an invoice for the use of your image. Include a screenshot and some strong legal language that you will enforce the said claim.

Keep us informed of the progress.


Good luck.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlineLarsEHAM From Netherlands, joined Sep 2010, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Their contact function is broken, so I have emailed the webmaster and asked for an email address of the person in charge. If I get an address I will send them an invoice. Only they probably have no knowledge of the English language. Is it best to mail then in Spanish (I have a friend that will be able the write a little mail, only saying that I have included an invoice as attachment) and the invoice in English? And hope they are smart enough to use a translation program is they don't understand English?

User currently offlineAirimage From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

It's a free download. What's the fuss about?
Anyone could probably make their own if they could be bothered.


User currently offlineLarsEHAM From Netherlands, joined Sep 2010, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

The fuss is about that I did not gave them permission to duplicate my work.
If every one can, it does not mean that everyone is allowed.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6414 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Quoting Airimage (Reply 4):
It's a free download. What's the fuss about?

It's a breach of copyright whatever way you look at it. They do not have permission to use photos without consent from the owner; free or not.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineRGElectra80 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Quoting LarsEHAM (Reply 3):
Their contact function is broken, so I have emailed the webmaster and asked for an email address of the person in charge. If I get an address I will send them an invoice. Only they probably have no knowledge of the English language. Is it best to mail then in Spanish (I have a friend that will be able the write a little mail, only saying that I have included an invoice as attachment) and the invoice in English? And hope they are smart enough to use a translation program is they don't understand English?

Lars, it's understandable you're upset, but do you really think if you send them an invoice they will pay or be bothered to figure out what you're trying to communicate? These are people that surreptitiously lifted your photo from this site, it's more than likely they could care less about your copyright.



Feel free to check out my Flight Diary: flightdiary.net/alenart
User currently offlineAirimage From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

I understand that it would be nice if permission was asked but I would also take it as a compliment that someone has used my picture to create something like this.
However. If money was involved then it would be a completely different story.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6414 posts, RR: 38
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Quoting Airimage (Reply 8):

That sort of behaviour just encourages more people to keep stealing images. We photographers don't spend money to buy good gear and take good photos for people to come along and steal the image without the owner even knowing.

Quoting Airimage (Reply 8):

However. If money was involved then it would be a completely different story.

And why should this change anything? If they didn't have the courtesy to ask when doing this, do you think they would bother next year if they happened to sell them for even EUR1?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineAsuspine From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Hi,
Currently all photos on A.Net can be downloaded through 'Save image as' or 'Copy Image'. Whereas some graphic sites have the right click option disabled. Would it be beneficial if the right click over a photo is either completely disabled or the option of enable / disabled is left to the choice of photographer during upload? May be it would make stealing little difficult.



HFK
User currently offlinemat1979 From France, joined Dec 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Quoting Asuspine (Reply 10):
Hi,
Currently all photos on A.Net can be downloaded through 'Save image as' or 'Copy Image'. Whereas some graphic sites have the right click option disabled. Would it be beneficial if the right click over a photo is either completely disabled or the option of enable / disabled is left to the choice of photographer during upload? May be it would make stealing little difficult.

That wouldn't change anything, the picture arrived to the screen, it can be saved. You don't need a click right "save image" to save a pic.

Quoting LarsEHAM (Thread starter):
All suggestions are more then welcome.

The issue here is that the stealers are in Argentina. Unless you live there you can't reallistically threaten them of legal proceedings.
Thus if they chose to ignore your email and invoice then what can you do? Because 99% chances they will ignore your email & invoice. You can try anyway.

What to do if they ignore you?
Here is the answer : google copyright violation
This is the french version http://support.google.com/bin/static.py?hl=fr&ts=1114905&page=ts.cs

Or this http://www.youtube.com/t/copyright_center

With this tool you can show google your photo copyright were not respected by this site. After a while google will remove those pages with copyright violations from their search engine results. This will hurt the webmaster of the site a little bit by reducing their revenue (from ads).


User currently offlineAirimage From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Quoting Asuspine (Reply 10):
That sort of behaviour just encourages more people to keep stealing images.

So what. Unless you are losing financially what's the problem.
This is the only place I know of where people complain that their images have been shared across the internet. As if they think they have some higher status that should exempt them from this most casual and innocent action.
If you don't want your images 'stolen' then don't upload them to the internet.


User currently offlineerikgrinsvall From Sweden, joined Jul 2008, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7491 times:

Internet can be a real love hate relationship

User currently offlineDL747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7427 times:

Quoting Airimage (Reply 12):

Somewhat agreed, yes, but it is still morally wrong and unethical. The photographer deserves the credit. I think this is pride rather than money, and regardless, I side with Lars.



Just like the shirt says, Boeing Builds It Better!
User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5494 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7358 times:

I really don't understand how someone could take it as a 'compliment' when their work is stolen.

Camera gear is not free, nor are the trips to the airport and the time it takes to edit the photos. Also becoming the norm that companies don't want to pay for images because of all the 'amateurs' who believe their work is not worth anything and don't mind giving it away.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7357 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting LarsEHAM (Thread starter):
Should I try and get in contact with them to send them an invoice?

Given that the damage is already done, I would absolutely encourage you to contact them with an invoice and a threat to enforce your rights under copyright law. Actually taking legal action, however, might not be that simple.

Quoting Airimage (Reply 12):
This is the only place I know of where people complain that their images have been shared across the internet. As if they think they have some higher status that should exempt them from this most casual and innocent action.
If you don't want your images 'stolen' then don't upload them to the internet.

Downloading images for personal use as your desktop wallpaper is permitted under Airliners.net's Terms of Use

However, "sharing" them online is absolutely not innocent, even if it may be "casual" due to the antipathy with which a lot of people treat copyright laws these days, and that is unfortunate. The fact that they're on the internet isn't an open invitation for them to be stolen any more than your car being parked out on a public road an invitation for that to be stolen.

As photographers spend a lot of time, money and effort in putting these photos onto our database, they deserve recognition and compensation should any organisation or individual wish to use their photographs in a non-prescribed manner.

This isn't just a moral and ethical issue, it's a legal issue. Copyright laws exists and penalties apply for its breach, whether you like it or not.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineAirimage From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7329 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
he fact that they're on the internet isn't an open invitation for them to be stolen

Of course it isn't, but it would be near on impossible to stop it. (disabling the 'save image as' option might help)

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
any more than your car being parked out on a public road an invitation for that to be stolen.

Again, of course not. You should be able to leave it open with the keys in the ignition and still expect to drive it away a few hours later.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
As photographers spend a lot of time, money and effort in putting these photos onto our database, they deserve recognition and compensation should any organisation or individual wish to use their photographs in a non-prescribed manner.

Now I can believe that there may be a few 'professionals' here that make a living out of photography in general but most upload here as an extension to the aviation hobby as a whole, not to make money and certainly not to cover the cost of their equipment.
Or do they?


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7303 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting Airimage (Reply 17):
Now I can believe that there may be a few 'professionals' here that make a living out of photography in general but most upload here as an extension to the aviation hobby as a whole, not to make money and certainly not to cover the cost of their equipment.
Or do they?

Whatever their motivation for uploading photos online, it is irrelevant to the question of whether those images are subject to copyright. It doesn't matter if the photographers are uploading their photos as an extension to the hobby, as you put it, or are professionals making money from it. Copyright exists in photographs, whether the person taking it is an amateur or professional.

Besides, as has been mentioned above, photography equipment isn't cheap. Even if the photographers are amateurs taking photographs of planes as a hobby, it doesn't mean that the cost to taking the photographs and putting them online isn't worth anything, thus if their photographs are to be used for any purpose other than private and domestic use, some form of recognition or payment should be made to them.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineplanespot From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

Quoting Airimage (Reply 12):
So what. Unless you are losing financially what's the problem.
This is the only place I know of where people complain that their images have been shared across the internet. As if they think they have some higher status that should exempt them from this most casual and innocent action.
If you don't want your images 'stolen' then don't upload them to the internet.

Stealing other people's copyrighted photos is a "most casual and innocent action"? Really??? I've had my photos stolen from here more times than I can count, by web designers, by companies, by people making wallpaper and putting their own name as the credit, by individuals for their Facebook cover photos, by individuals for their aviation webpages, by admins of Facebook groups, to use to generate traffic to their groups/fan pages, etc. I generally let people keep the picture up if it's not too big a deal (Facebook cover photos, people who leave the A.net copyright banner, etc.), but to imply, "oh well, they're not making any money...get over it" is ridiculous. Even if they aren't directly making any money off the photo, they (as in the calendar) are gaining exposure/hits for content that they didn't create or have the right to use. Also, having a photo splattered all over the Internet may dilute its value and appeal. An example of a "most casual and innocent action" is the person who asked me if it was okay to print a watermarked photo of a musician I took, so he could show a hair stylist how to cut his hair. I immediately thanked him for asking, and even attached a copy of the photo, in case he wasn't sure how to circumvent the silly JavaScript protection I have on the site. He could have printed out the photo without asking...that is an innocent action. Using photos from here for whatever you please, when it is clearly against the Terms of Use is NOT innocent...it's outright copyright infringement. If you don't mind that people use your photos without your consent, that's fine...just don't admonish other photographers for rightfully protecting their intellectual property.

Lars, it appears that Dattatec.com may be the web host for that website. If you can't resolve it through the site owner, you may want to contact Dattatec.com to see if they can assist.

[Edited 2012-11-26 19:18:02]


Cary Liao - AeroPX
User currently offlineAirimage From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

OK, I didn't realise how seriously some people took themselves here.
I'll continue shooting for fun.  


User currently offlinejelpee From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6700 times:

Lars,

It is worth pursuing. Delta Airlines had used an image of mine from a.net without permission. With encouragement from fellow a.net photographers, I contacted them and we were able to work out a mutually agreeable license arrangement. I had to do some investigation to find the appropriate contact, but at the end of the day they respected the copyright to the image.

If nothing else, don't give up without a fight  .

Jehan


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 18):
Whatever their motivation for uploading photos online, it is irrelevant to the question of whether those images are subject to copyright. It doesn't matter if the photographers are uploading their photos as an extension to the hobby, as you put it, or are professionals making money from it. Copyright exists in photographs, whether the person taking it is an amateur or professional.
Quoting Dazed767 (Reply 15):
I really don't understand how someone could take it as a 'compliment' when their work is stolen.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 9):
That sort of behaviour just encourages more people to keep stealing images. We photographers don't spend money to buy good gear and take good photos for people to come along and steal the image without the owner even knowing.

I agree 100% with all of the preceding; and I would be mad too.........but the problem is, the minute you upload ANYTHING to the internet, you're not only subject to having it stolen, and even worse is the fact that 95 % of the time, there's just not a whole lot you can do about it. Obviously, you can't spend a bunch of money for a high priced lawyer, and even if you could, most of the time the thief is in Timbucktoo, so at the end of the day, there is only ONE way to prevent having your photos stolen; keep them off of the internet.

I know, you want others to see them; That's fine.......I joined A.net because I was enjoying looking at them, and now I can enjoy communicating with all of the friends I've made since I first joined. As I take very few aviation photos, I have no interest in having my work here. The few prints that I do make, I either give them to my friends, or occasionally I may do something on a commission, but only if I'm "in the mood". I do a bit of graphic art, and I frequently combine some of my art with some of my photography, and I do have about 30 examples on an art website; if anything has been copied of stolen, I'm unaware of it, and it wouldn't bother me one way or another if it were to happen, as I'm fully aware that it CAN happen, and in many cases, it probably WILL happen. There's an old adage, relative to investing money in the stock market......"Never invest money that you can't afford to lose"; I suppose the same could be said about putting your best work where it's subject to thieves; (kinda like leaving your corvette parked over night in a "bad neighborhood"; it may not be there come daylight !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
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