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6D Or D600 For A Planespotter?  
User currently offlinescr From Sweden, joined Jun 2011, 11 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6932 times:

I recently sold my Canon 7D along with all lenses (they were ef-s), and I am now looking to upgrade to a full frame DSLR. I've had my eyes on both the Canon 6D and the Nikon D600 and had previously made up my mind in favor of the D600. I just feel that with a better AF system and higher fps, it should be the better camera for spotting. But now when I really am in the position to buy one, I'm not so sure anymore.

My planespotting so far has been with a borrowed 100-400L, and that gave great results. I'm sure I could borrow the same 100-400L from time to time if I continue with Canon, could be worth mentioning.

And if I go for Nikon, I think I would start out with Tamron's 70-300, which I have read good things about. The newly released 80-400 would be high on my wish list, but have to save up some money for that first.

Any advice? I feel like I'm stuck in the decision making process  

[Edited 2013-03-25 09:54:30]

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6929 times:
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If you are no longer bound by a collection of Canon lenses, it's simple. Get the D600. It's the better camera.  

Edit: Be careful though. The switch might not go well if you have a hard time adapting to Nikon's system. I have a friend who is a Canon guy swear that he was going to switch to Nikon for the D600 because he was so impressed with everything he saw about it. He rented one and HATED it. He loved the photos, but he could not adjust to Nikon.

So while I said the decision is easy, make sure you play with one first!

[Edited 2013-03-25 09:55:00]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinescr From Sweden, joined Jun 2011, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

Thanks! I have both played around with a friend's D7000 and a D600 a few times in the shop. The interface does take some time getting used to, but I don't think that it will be a problem.

I was surprised that my trigger finger didn't instinctively position itself on the D600's shutter release button, as it has done on the 6D/7D. Guess it comes down to muscle memory... This aside, I did pull the trigger om a D600! It's going to be a pain waiting for it to ship from Germany  
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1):


User currently offlinejpmagero From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6889 times:

Quoting scr (Reply 2):
I did pull the trigger om a D600!

I guess you weren't that stuck after all  

I've had Canon gear all my life, and never really considered switching, but when I bought a wedding gift for my brother, he had his eyes set on a Nikon, and since it was his gift, not mine, I bought him the D5200. I handled it a bit and even after a week, could not get used to the system. I'm sure it would have been just a matter of time, but wasn't as straightforward as I thought it would have been.

PS. Was much easier switching between left and right side of the road as I traveled between Australia and the US every couple of months, but the camera, not as easy.



John M - Aussie expat in the US
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10096 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6874 times:
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Quoting jpmagero (Reply 3):

Never mind switching brands - when I use my girlfriend's Rebel XS (my former camera), I sit there and stare at it for a minute, trying to figure out how to do anything!

Muscle memory indeed, especially difficult for things where you're not looking at what you're doing. Same reason I try and stomp on the clutch pedal in an automatic transmission, only to slam my foot into the floorboard.  
Quoting scr (Reply 2):
This aside, I did pull the trigger om a D600! It's going to be a pain waiting for it to ship from Germany

Congrats!



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinelegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6811 times:

Interesting thread, as I am currently mulling over the option of selling all my Canon equipment (7D included) and getting a Nikon D600 + new Nikon 80-400mm. The new updated 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR sounds promising, the first comments I've read about it are all positive, and some of the first pictures I've seen look good as well. I've grown tired of waiting for Canon to update the 100-400mm.

I had been looking at the D800, however the D600 seems like the better option to go with, with slightly better noise performance and £500 less in price. It doesn't seem too far off the Canon 5D mk3 performance wise.

Having been a Canon person since I took up photography and never having seriously looked at Nikon before, the ability to jump between FX and DX format sounds interesting, almost sounds too good to be true? Whilst simply cropping an FX format image afterwards is basically the same, it would be handier switching to DX format in-camera and composing the image, whilst also getting an image half the memory size of the full frame image.

I wonder how a DX format image taken with the D600 measures up to an image taken with crop camera such as the 7D or D7000. Obviously the DX format on the D600 only offers image at 10 MP, however when reduced down for internet use, the difference should be minimal and very usable, I think?



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5714 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6759 times:
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Interesting comments about adjusting to the ergonomic differences between Canon and Nikon.

After years (decades) using the Olympus OM system I transitioned to Canon EOS film system without any difficulty.
About 5 years after going Canon all my gear was stolen. While waiting for the insurance settlement my boss lent me a Nikon AF SLR.. took some fine shots, never got comfortable with the ergonomics... all these years I thought it was just me!

Quoting scr (Thread starter):
I just feel that with a better AF system and higher fps

I know you have already made your call but if they are your only two criteria for what makes a good "spotting" camera then I am afraid you don't understand the situation, focus, sure the more help the better. FPS, there is rarely ever a situation in av-photography that requires a high frame rate.. or at least place any importance on it. Planes quite frankly do not move all that fast.. and the "image" changes between frames even less.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemegatop412 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6731 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 6):
Planes quite frankly do not move all that fast.. and the "image" changes between frames even less.

At airshows and with fast moving jet aircraft, this does in fact become an issue(especially with the aerobatic teams). If you mean just when photographing airliners then yes I know what you mean, I end up having to delete a lot of shots that look 'almost the same'. However, fps comes into play here as well, especially if you're trying to nail the moment the wheels hit the ground or having just the right background elements in the scene(inclusion of other aircraft, the control tower, etc.) Then again, I was all-manual when I started(FM2) so there was no such thing as 'fps', more like f.p.every.three.seconds!  

That said, there is some value to being able to hone your skills so that you recognize just the right moment to hit the button, instead of what I normally hear when out spotting(clickclickclickclickclickclick). Some of those come from my camera of course lol

Congrats to the OP on the D600! I hear the noise performance is really good. Definitely save your money for the new 80-400, I know I am


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5714 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6644 times:
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Quoting megatop412 (Reply 7):
That said, there is some value to being able to hone your skills so that you recognize just the right moment to hit the button, instead of what I normally hear when out spotting(clickclickclickclickclickclick). Some of those come from my camera of course lol

This is actually the key, I know of many who will shotgun a sequence of a few seconds in an attempt to nail the shot.
I recently(a couple of years ago) returned to seriously photographing motor racing. As 'film" is cheap I ignored what I knew was right and joined the ..clickclickclickclickclickclick brigade, got a couple good shots once in a while but also a lot of junk.

Turned sequence mode off and took single shots (sometimes quite quickly) and the hit rate sky rocketed.

Consider this, shooting at1/500 sec and spraying off a 5sec burst** you have recorded only 0.5% of the action in that time frame. You have missed and your camera has missed what happened in 4.975 sec of that 5 sec window.

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 7):
At airshows and with fast moving jet aircraft, this does in fact become an issue(especially with the aerobatic teams).


Have had this discussion before.. even fast jets don't move that fast. it is angular speed that is the issue not the air speed. Remember they are far away, try standing next to any race track where the speeds may be less than 150km/h but only a few feet away. Fast jets need your panning skills not your frame rate.


** and have seen/heard many at the airport and race track shoot off 5 sec bursts.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6642 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 8):
Turned sequence mode off and took single shots (sometimes quite quickly) and the hit rate sky rocketed.

   I agree 100%. I did the same about two years ago and my results have improved.

However, where I think rapid burst rates are most important are for sports and stage shows/performances when the action, pose and facial expressions all come together for a fraction of a second for that perfect shot. High frame rate burst help your chances of catching that BRIEF moment of "magic".

[Edited 2013-03-27 17:44:29]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10096 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6625 times:
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Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 9):
Quoting stealthz (Reply 8):
Turned sequence mode off and took single shots (sometimes quite quickly) and the hit rate sky rocketed.

I agree 100%. I did the same about two years ago and my results have improved.

I'm not sure that my results have improved per se, but I know I have WAYYYYY less shots to go through to find the best ones.

Kind of amusing - one of the components of my camera upgrade last year was the 50D's faster burst rate (actually, the larger buffer was more important, but anyway...). Well, I think I had it on high-speed burst for probably two weeks before I switched it to low-speed burst. And even then, I rarely actually use burst for more than two shots - really only when panning in low light, which I'm still not great at.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 745 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

The mantra from all the pros when I was learning photography was "anticipate the moment" - otherwise you're just trusting to dumb luck.

Of course I use bursts like everyone else, but never the maximum rate - I find shooting at say 8 fps I feel I've lost control of the situation - 3fps feels about right for me, and then in short bursts. So I will try and press the shutter at the key moment, and then get a couple more for security. Usually its the first shot that's the keeper.

The other problem with long fast bursts is that you're putting a lot of faith in the AF. I like to give the camera a chance to reaquire the subject between frames.

Of course there is a place for long, high fps sequences, but in most situations there is only one perfect moment, and only your judgement and a quick response is going to capture it.

When shopping for a camera fps is way down my list of criteria. Responsiveness is much more important as is ergonomics. I too find Nikon cameras awkward to use - I've sometimes wondered if Canon and Nikon are deliberately different to help with brand loyalty!

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6605 times:

Quoting ckw (Reply 11):
The other problem with long fast bursts is that you're putting a lot of faith in the AF. I like to give the camera a chance to reaquire the subject between frames.

Same here. AI Focus does it for me (I don't like servo; though with the 5D3, maybe there's a chance of giving it another go) so I take a couple of shots, release my finger then get it to refocus before taking the next couple of shots.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinelegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6577 times:

One downside to the D600 is the known dust spot/shutter oil splatter issue which Nikon at the moment do not seem to have an answer to, otherwise than to send it in and have them sensor clean it for you.

The D600 has 7 central focus points that allow focusing at F8, whilst I believe the 6D is still limited to F5.6 although it's focusing system is supposed to be able to focus in -3EV light conditions, compared to the quoted -1EV for the D600.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6546 times:

I've just bought a 6D, a very good price at work. I plan to give a first outing on Sunday.

User currently offlinejohnmiller From South Africa, joined Mar 2006, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6272 times:

Shooting jets is a luxury as they can be photographed at high shutter speeds. However, the fps becomes vital when shooting propeller-driven aeroplanes. Most top pros go for full prop discs and delete the 'butterflies' as they are the pics that many editors prefer (not all editors are discerning however). photographing at below 100th of a second is not a place many av photographers go but it can mean everything to a pro.

User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5714 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6241 times:
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Quoting johnmiller (Reply 15):
However, the fps becomes vital when shooting propeller-driven aeroplanes. Most top pros go for full prop discs and delete the 'butterflies'

Not quite sure where FPS comes into this .. if your shutter speed is such that you get "butterflies"rather than full discs, I am puzzled how shooting many FPS will change that.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 745 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6203 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 16):
Not quite sure where FPS comes into this .. if your shutter speed is such that you get "butterflies"rather than full discs, I am puzzled how shooting many FPS will change that.

I think I see what's he's getting at - shooting at slow shutter speeds, esp. with long lenses means a percentage of shots will be ruined by camera shake. In this situation a burst of a few frames may increase the chances of getting a sharp frame.

Of course the higher the fps, the closer the frames will be in terms of composition. In practice however I usually find the first frame is the 'keeper' - no idea why - but the 2nd or 3rd frame has saved the day often enough to make shooting short bursts worthwhile for me.

Cheers

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6174 times:

Quoting ckw (Reply 17):
I think I see what's he's getting at - shooting at slow shutter speeds, esp. with long lenses means a percentage of shots will be ruined by camera shake. In this situation a burst of a few frames may increase the chances of getting a sharp frame.

But I'd expect a buffer to be able to cope with the gaps in between. Either way, I don't spray and pray with pans - I try to pick points, stay steady and actually see the plane through the viewfinder before I take another shot rather than hold down the shutter.

Quoting ckw (Reply 17):
Of course the higher the fps, the closer the frames will be in terms of composition. In practice however I usually find the first frame is the 'keeper' - no idea why - but the 2nd or 3rd frame has saved the day often enough to make shooting short bursts worthwhile for me.

Hard to say.. The further you go, the more likely (up to a point) the plane will be directly perpendicular to you; thus you reduce the blur that takes place at either extremity of the plane. And I think that's why I usually pick images a bit further in. Maybe I start shooting too early. All of this reminds me - I need to do some more night panning! 



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 745 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 18):
But I'd expect a buffer to be able to cope with the gaps in between. Either way, I don't spray and pray with pans - I try to pick points, stay steady and actually see the plane through the viewfinder before I take another shot rather than hold down the shutter.

Not sure what you mean about the buffer ...

But anyway, John and I weren't referring to pans in particular, rather to the problem of a slow shutter speed to catch prop blur ... obviously the slower you go, the more likely camera shake. When you're pushing the limits, the extra insurance provided by a frame burst can be worthwhile.

Panning a side-on is a different matter, as I guess there is only one moment in time where the aircraft is exactly perpendicular. Even at 10fps you would only have, say, a 10% chance of catching that exact moment using the spray and pray technique. Of course some frames may be close enough not to make much difference for a typical airliner take-off roll, but even a 1/10th of a second can make a big difference in framing if you are close to a fast moving object ... I fully agree with Chris's comments about motor racing!

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6166 times:

Quoting ckw (Reply 19):

Not sure what you mean about the buffer ...

The buffer starts getting filled as you start taking multiple pictures because the camera can only write to the memory card at a certain speed.. So by not holding down the trigger, there's less chance of you filling the buffer to the point that the FPS drops significantly. Anyway, I digress  
Quoting ckw (Reply 19):
John and I weren't referring to pans in particular, rather to the problem of a slow shutter speed to catch prop blur ... obviously the slower you go, the more likely camera shake. When you're pushing the limits, the extra insurance provided by a frame burst can be worthwhile.

It can be a similar approach to take; though it also depends on where abouts you're taking the picture from. I guess at my home airport, there's no chance of getting pictures of prop planes while they remain stationary.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
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