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Photoshop.. The Cloud?  
User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5013 times:
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Question for the community.

How do you feel about Adobe moving their products to a subscription based product.. Creative Cloud?

How will it affect your software usage or purchases?

I know there are many here that use CS5//6 but how many actually paid for it(their own money, not the Govt dept or corporation you work for.)?

More importantly, how many intend to continue paying a monthly subscription to Adobe?

Cheers


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4998 times:
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It seems to be the way the software industry is heading.

For the customer it should be a simple calculation to find the lower cost - buy the occasional version at full price vs several years of subscription. If you HAVE to always have the latest version, then subscription will probably be cheaper. If like Microsoft your subscription allows use on multiple computers, then it will almost certainly be a lot cheaper.

Personally, I've been using CS3 for several years and see no need to upgrade now. At some point that version will no longer be supported and I'll have to make a decision.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4992 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
buy the occasional version at full price vs several years of subscription.

But they are not giving you that choice.. if you decide to move on from the CS3 you have then CC is the only way to go or leave the Adobe world.. or live with Elements and LR(for now)

[Edited 2013-05-08 04:31:40]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinederekf From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4979 times:

Or buy something like Elements or PSP that is a fraction of the price in the first place and does most of what a photographer needs. Never saw the need to spend hundreds on a bit of software anyway.


Whatever.......
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4979 times:

Not acceptable for me - I tend to skip versions, so buying by subscription works more expensive (based on available pricing info and assuming the full price would be consistent if it existed.)

I'm also not entirely sure I'm happy with the model - too many unknowns! Will Adobe force updates on you (the way Firefox does)?

I'm on CS5 and quite happy with it - would have moved to CS7, but based on current info doubt I will move to CC.

The problem is I have years of experience with ACR and PS, and don't want to move to something else. I assume I can continue using CS5 indefinitely, but I will get screwed next time I get a new camera as it will not be supported by my version of ACR.

So there are a lot of implications! I want another DSLR body. I was waiting to see what the 7D2 had to offer, but now I'm thinking that a 2nd 5D3 might be a safer option as however good the 7D2 is, I'll be into a whole bunch of software complications (and expense). Alternatively I may be forced to switch to Lightroom for RAW processing.

I'm also not clear on timings - during the summer I just do not have time to make major workflow changes. I might be more open to change come the winter months.

What really annoys me is that the apparent reason for the change is piracy. I've bought fully legal copies from the start - I feel that I'm being punished for the actions of the less scrupulous.

I'm hoping Adobe will realise this is a big mistake. While they may keep existing highend clients, I think they will loose a lot of new customers - there are many alternatives, and this is likely to drive potential customers elsewhere ... I can't see anyone seeing this change as an advantage.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4973 times:

Quoting ckw (Reply 4):
but I will get screwed next time I get a new camera as it will not be supported by my version of ACR.

I forgot all about that!

Quoting ckw (Reply 4):
Alternatively I may be forced to switch to Lightroom for RAW processing.

But I'm sure LR will have the same problem as above with compatibility of new cameras..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4970 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
But I'm sure LR will have the same problem as above with compatibility of new cameras..

For now LR is a purchasable product...(presumably upgradeable) for how long that goes on.. who knows!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

As I say, too many unknowns - we'll have to wait and see. Adobe should bear in mind that even the biggest software companies can loose their user base overnight. Anyone using WordPerfect or Lotus?

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineDehowie From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 1071 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

Everything Colin said is pretty spot on particularly Adobe's habit of not upgrading old software for new bodies.
In dollar terms some like us in Australia are in dollar terms probably in front.
The upgrade cosy here is almost double the upgrade price in the USA.
With a new version of PS coming along around every two years we would pay 240 in rental in the same time which is less than an upgrade.
The problem is if you save any files as PSD's with layers etc saved you will always have to pay or lose all your work as the files will be useless.
I use Lightroom for 99% of my work now but they are now talking about a CC version which will have more features than a full license version..ie dumbed down without renting.
That means 50 per month.
I can see Adobe losing a lot of people..a lot..



2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Damn - I'd forgotten about my psd files!

Another thought - I think we can assume that the current price for CC rental is as low as Adobe is prepared to make it in order try and make it attractive. But how much will it be next year?

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4884 times:
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Quoting ckw (Reply 4):
So there are a lot of implications! I want another DSLR body. I was waiting to see what the 7D2 had to offer, but now I'm thinking that a 2nd 5D3 might be a safer option as however good the 7D2 is, I'll be into a whole bunch of software complications (and expense).

I wonder how this will affect camera manufacturers and the sales of new cameras. Surely the decision to upgrade will be more calculated for many photographers.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 6):

It seems inevitable though, right? That's assuming they don't realise what they've done and eventually can that whole idea and go back to how it has been.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4826 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 11):
Quoting stealthz (Reply 6):

It seems inevitable though, right? That's assuming they don't realise what they've done and eventually can that whole idea and go back to how it has been.

Typically when companies make drastic moves like this they calculate and plan for losing customers. There is no way Adobe is shocked by the outrage caused by this move. They will take the flak and move forward, unfortunately.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6848 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

According to a BBC report, they've been running this as a pilot on a trial basis for a year and have half a million subscribers. Whether they are happy subscribers or otherwise isn't indicated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22432171



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineMcG1967 From UK - Scotland, joined Apr 2006, 517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Adobe 1st announce subscription based purchasing with the release of CS6.
I was a Lightroom user until then, as I couldn't justify the £700 or so purchase price of Photoshop.
I took out a single app subscription for Photoshop CS6 last September. Including VAT (sales tax), I pay just over £17 a month for Photoshop.

With the boxed versions or previous download versions of Photoshop you were tied into an operating system - Mac or Windows.

With the subscription service, you are not restricted this way. I have CS6 installed on a MacBook Air and a Dell desktop PC.

Also, you download the software and install it on your computer, the same way you would any other digital download.
An online check is done after 30 days to see if you have a valid subscription - this is similar to what the trial version does to see if you have purchased a licence. A further check is done after 180 days, to see if your subscription is still valid.

Is it perfect, no, but it has allowed me to get photoshop when otherwise I couldn't justify the expenditure.

You also get 20gb of cloud storage space.

Adobe have said that existing users who move to the subscription model will get the 1st year at approx 1/2 price.

Finally, Petapixel mentioned that Adobe are looking at tailoring a subscription for photographers.


User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Some interesting counter points. Of course when looking at the financial side I was basing it on what I pay, which has been for an upgrade for the last few versions rather than the new box price.

Perhaps it won't be so bad - but at the moment it feels that way. I guess its the removal of choice that irks, and also the fact that I'm required to commit for 12 months.

I suppose I could look on the software as simply another utility with a monthly bill - like my Internet connection.

Need to think about this some more.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineDehowie From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 1071 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4776 times:

To me the thing that stands out is unlike say a full license where you can access all your work forever with a rent system you are tied forever.
Sure you can save as a tiff but with any layer work you will lose your original file should you decide to say swap to gimp for processing.
What if Adobe go ok next year profits are down so now its 50 a month.
What if Adobe go bankrupt and there is no longer access?
You lose every psd you have ever edited..
Gimp apparantly has good layer functionality so i will probably check it out something i would never of considered.
Adobe in trying to protect themselves from pirates selling software to people who never would of bought full versions are now losing people who did buy full versions.
So they are sacrificing known customers to cut out customers who never would of bought anyway.
Theres a great move.
I hope Gimp expands its base massively and really hurts Adobe.
After years of gouging foreign customers on download charges people are now looking around.
Big error just having your customer base doing that..



2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4725 times:

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 16):
To me the thing that stands out is unlike say a full license where you can access all your work forever with a rent system you are tied forever.

Agreed - on the other hand I have been using PS continously for many, many years and I guess I'm unlikely to change my software now - if I was, then this wouldn't be a big deal ... I'd just change.

Regarding layered files. This IS an issue - I have illustration projects which may take months or years to complete as I only dip into them now and then when i want a change of pace.

As I understand it, I can keep my current, fully owned version of CS5 so provided I opt for max compatibity, I should be able to access these images at anytime - I would have to be careful of things like smart layers as I imagine these wouldn't be backward compatible, but normal layers should.

I guess if Adobe went bust you'd be OK as the software is on your PC. Either Adobe would stop collecting the rent or - more likely - someone else would take up the administration function.

My biggest concern is having no control over costs year on year. I can imagine Adobe meetings where they will work out how much of an increase users will tolerate year on year. The annoying thing is that it is a win-win situation for Adobe - people may stop using PS only to buy Lightroom or Elements instead.

Dpreview is hinting that there may be some sort of special deal for photographers (ie. those who only want Photoshop) so I guess its a matter of wait and see.

To be honest I might be more tempted if the cloud storage offer was more generous. 20gb is of little use to me. Make it 100gb and it becomes more interesting. I'd like to see a range of offerings in this area so that you could buy just PS and then select how much (if any) cloud storage you want.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlinemegatop412 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4673 times:

This whole idea of cloud computing is getting more and more ridiculous. I can understand it for some uses, but for something as critical to a photographer as image editing, one should not be forced to have to 'rent'. What happens once how much you have paid into renting begins to exceed the fair market value of the code? I'll be damned if I would keep paying. I understand that piracy has taken a big toll on profits, and yes they should try to close off those loose ends...but not at the expense of your customer.

What they should do if they want to run a subscription model is, once that breakeven point is reached, they could halt your upgrades but allow continued access to what you already paid for. I know it would be next to impossible to expect Adobe to keep track of exactly how much each user has paid for and to figure out a graduated access for each, but I'm not a coder, I'm an end user paying the money. It isn't my job to figure that part out.

Since my income doesn't depend on photography, if and when I reach the point that I would have to go this subscription route, I'll just switch my quality setting to jpeg fine and live with SOOC. Hopefully by then I'll be decent enough to not need to edit(yeah, right...    )


User currently offlineThumper45 From Canada, joined May 2013, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

From what I see, there are a lot of people out there using pirated versions of PS.

Personally, I have always purchased my own copies to use. I recently upgraded from CS4 to CS6 and I do find there to be a difference between the versions.
I upgraded all my Adobe products to the most current offerings of them. I should be good for another few years at least with what I have now but if they do switch to a subscription based system I may subscribe (depending on cost of the subscription)


User currently offlineYHZguy From Canada, joined May 2013, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4568 times:
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I’ve owned PS since CS3 (prior to that, shhhh, I used pirated versions) javascript:basic_smilie_click(' '), and Lightroom since it first went to market. It soon became evident to me that I really didn’t use PS that much anymore. Lightroom did nearly everything I really needed. I only did the upgrade to version CS4, CS5, & CS6 because I figured it would be cheaper to keep current rather than buy a new version, if I ever needed it.

I’ve done a little bit of research since reading about Adobe’s latest marketing approach. As I mentioned above, Lightroom does almost, I repeat almost, everything a photographer needs to do in post processing. I have learned that Photoshop Elements is nearly a full blown PS (not PS extended). I understand it even does Content Aware, which is awesome!!

Anyway, to make this post short, I refer you to the following link: http://tinyurl.com/cubzuag
This video is nearly an hour long but you can move past the adds and if you get bored at some of the self-aggrandisement, just move it ahead a little. It really is worth the view.

The video does explain the situation way better than Adobe does. I think Adobe’s move could be akin to the “New Coke” experience a number of years ago. I do understand why Adobe is going this way, as it allows Adobe a steady, constant, cash flow as opposed to a balloon cash explosion around each new version release. Personally, I’m happy with Lightoom and as long as I don’t have to pay a monthly fee for that, I’m good with it. You should really watch the video though, it is enlightening.


User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4560 times:
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Just wondering if Adobe have realised that the "CS" product is not relavent to the vast majority of "users" sure some use the many features but many more undoubtedly enjoy the street cred they gain from being Photoshop CSx users without using anything like all the features of the product. (I would venture to suggest most photographers would struggle to use more than a little of the capability of PSE.)

The high end corporate users are already comfortable with subscription model so no great impact there.. indeed it may improve Adobe's position in the corporate world.

Since the late 1990's when I was in an IT marketing role I have maintained that if Adobe had a more realistic pricing strategy it would be "revenue positive", Adobe have always priced their core product so high that a overwhelming % of the potential market felt it easier to steal the product.

Perhaps they have realised that the a large percentage of their business may be in the LR/PSE world, if they remove the ability for many to "pirate" CSx then it might make more sense for them to buy LR or PSE and whatever plugins(Adobe or 3rd party ) required for specific tasks.

How many recreational users of PS CSx actually paid for the product with their own money??
I know many that bought academic versions and continue to use it, many that use company provided s/ware but how many actuall paid retail for the product, this is especcially relavent in international markets subject to Adobe's criminally extortionate price gouging.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemegatop412 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4390 times:

Anybody seen these? They're both pretty hilarious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPTc79Qw2g4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Iw9q2X9cU


User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 769 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4270 times:

Adobe giveth and taketh ...

The good news is that Adobe say they have no intention of making Lightroom cloud based in the forseeable future. However they also said that we won't be seeing their new anti-shake technology in Lightroom 5 (though it will be in Photoshop CC).

My take on this - Adobe will keep Lightroom going as a standalone product, if for no other reason than to provide a product to those who are unhappy with the Cloud. But Adobe is clearly besotted with the subscription model, so PS CC will get all the new stuff, while Lightroom lags behind so as to try and push us into the cloud.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlinePlainplane From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 849 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

I believe the forced switching to subscription models is unacceptable and essentially an abuse of monopolistic power.

While it is good to have an option to choose between an ownership or a subscription model, sort of like how Microsoft is marketing Office 2013 as a "pay-in-full-and-use" product while at the same time offering Office 365 as a cloud-based yearly subscription, people are given that option to choose. Some people like it one way, some like it the other way.

However, what Adobe is doing, is forcing people to "upgrade" products which we all have already paid at least $500 or $1000+ for and then pay a monthly fee for perpetuity for the "privilege" of doing what we need to do, instead of being able to buy the software outright, knowing that a majority of users' project files are Adobe formats and there are no other real alternatives, either they do this or they are bust. It is like saying the one and only way to get a couch for your home is to lease one at Rent-A-Center, where at the end of the day a year later you've already paid at least 400% of its value yet do not own it, to keep it you must keep paying the monthly rental. At $50 a month, one would have already paid more than the cost of standalone Photoshop in a year. It is essentially like as if you purchased a computer and then Microsoft charging a monthly subscription fee just to use Windows - and of course antitrust lawyers would be all over it in a heartbeat. It is outrageous.

Then even moreso, it gives them the ability to pull the plug on you outright, you are at their mercy. If they make a billing screwup or their activation servers do not work or they arbitrarily decide to cut you off, you're stuck. After paying so much money then at the end you could be stuck with nothing at the flip of a switch. I wouldn't ever want to allow myself to be at the mercy of the whim of a corporation especially if that corporation is aiming to leach you in the long-run.


25 Silver1SWA : Everyone bases their complaints on this $50 a month figure but Photoshop will be $10 a month for existing Photoshop customers (for the first year) an
26 Plainplane : But then after the first year you have to pay full price, right?
27 Silver1SWA : I'm pretty sure full price for just Photoshop in CC is $20 per month. The special discount price of $10 is for people who purchased recent CS version
28 megatop412 : The more I read this thread, the more I'm glad I use Paint Shop Pro. Watch, now that I said that, Corel will follow suit.
29 ckw : Well in the UK the discount only appears to apply to CS complete, and the PS price is £17.58 per month with an annual contract. ($27). Now I could l
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