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User currently offlinemcmoreton From UK - England, joined Jun 2013, 3 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

Hi, I currently have a Canon 350D and looking to upgrade. I have the option of buying a Canon 600D with some lenses included 300m. I am unsure if to buy the 600D or wait and save for a camera like 5D.

Can you recommend or send me some links of your photo's taken with the 600D or 5D or other cameras that you would recommend.

Its a mind field to which DSLR so your help is really need. My aim is to upload photos to Airliners.net

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting mcmoreton (Thread starter):
I am unsure if to buy the 600D or wait and save for a camera like 5D.

Most would agree the lens is more important than the camera body. Money is better invested in glass than a new body. The 350D is still a capable camera. The 600D is a great camera, the 5D (you don't say with model) another step.Bear in mind going full frame may result on some of your lenses (assuming you have some EF-S) not being compatible with the 5D. Cheap glass on a 5D won't result in good results, but good glass on a 600D, used correctly, will yeild great results. Do you really need a full frame camera and the expense of one? It is was me, I'd go for the glass first then the body. Regardless of what camera or lens you get, you need to know how to get the best from it. Spending a lot of money on a camera doesn't guarantee good results. That's where the photography bit comes in.

Quoting mcmoreton (Thread starter):
My aim is to upload photos to Airliners.net

If that is your sole aim, I'd save your money. You need to be shooting for the enjoyment and for yourself before here.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9901 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2832 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 1):

If that is your sole aim, I'd save your money. You need to be shooting for the enjoyment and for yourself before here.

I'll go ahead and disagree with Darren there.   If your goal is to upload to A.net, and if that brings you enjoyment, so be it (and no, I'm not saying that because I'm a screener....I just don't really care why you want to shoot - people can have different reasons).

With that said, I will agree with Darren here:

Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 1):
It is was me, I'd go for the glass first then the body.

If your goal is to upload to A.net, then keep your 350D, stick a decent lens on it, and you should be fine. I'd probably take a 350D with a good lens over a 600D with a crappy lens.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineFLPhoto From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Personally, I would invest in a good lens. Also, I think that that would not be such a big difference from the 350D to the 600D. So get a nice lens, and practice.

FLPhoto


User currently offlinemcmoreton From UK - England, joined Jun 2013, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Thank you for all your replies.

I really enjoy photography. I would love to get similar results to the photos below.
I have never been able to capture the fans.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Emira...d=dc5ee1e979d08668d213dd5ab3cc9e05
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...d=dc5ee1e979d08668d213dd5ab3cc9e05


User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 731 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

A new camera, or for that matter lens won't really help capture fans. These pics could have been taken with pretty much any camera ,,, the secret is technique. Its a matter of getting the right lighting and selecting an appropriate aperturer and shutter speed, though I would say in these shots the lighting is the most important element.

I've said it before, but always remember that 90% of the greatest photographs ever taken were shot with equipment inferior to what you have now. Upgrading your camera won't make you a better photographer. A better lens may improve sharpness and contrast a bit, but it won't get you better light, timing or composition!

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineviv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

Colin's post above (Reply 5) says it all.

But most don't want to hear such wisdom.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 731 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

The sad thing is that such wisdom only comes with grey hair and experience. I've gone through my share of upgrades looking for the silver bullet - I hate to think of the money wasted over the years! If only you got the chance to start over.

Of course these days we are spoilt for choice and the manufacturers do all they can to convince us that if only we bought the latest model our pics would be brilliant. Before electronics became all important it was perfectly normal for photographers to be using kit that was 10 or 20 years old. Photographers would add to their lens collection, and perhaps but an additional body or two to suit their work, but the concept of "upgrading" didn't really exist.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlinemcmoreton From UK - England, joined Jun 2013, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

Thanks for your replies. I am coming around to the idea of buying a better quality lenses.

I do have a chance to buy a 600D with three canon AF lenses.

My old 350D is aging now. I have had it for over 6 years and photos at air shows aren't crisp anymore.

I completely agree about light and setup after looking at other photo's. The light is just right to get the detail of the fans on landing.

Thanks for all you help.


User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting mcmoreton (Reply 4):
I have never been able to capture the fans.

That's all about the lighting. It's not difficult to do at this time of year as long as you have the light at the right angle. That would have been taken at about 7am on 05R when the light is perfect for that. An hour later when the sun is stronger and higher in the sky, you've lost the light. A good proportion of photography is the planning of shots rather than the equipment.

Quoting mcmoreton (Reply 8):
My old 350D is aging now. I have had it for over 6 years and photos at air shows aren't crisp anymore.

It might not be anything to do with the camera body. It's probably the lens. My 350D is still going strong after 7 years with 40,000 shutter actuations on it. I rarely use it now with having a pair of 50D's but my brother uses it for family things and it still produces the goods. While all singing all dancing equipment helps, it's the person using it that's as important to get the best from the equipment.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

The only real 'upgrade' in digital is, in my opinion, from a crop factor body to a full-frame one. Providing you've completed 'the course' (I.e. earned sufficient experience) using the crop factor camera, some - but certainly not all - of your images should see improvements, although only really in resolution and clarity.

To be honest images uploaded here are too small to distinguish what camera was used - you could be looking at an image from a 350D or a 1D Mk.IV and you wouldn't notice the difference.

I'd say that upgrading to a FF model comes only after a good few years' experience with crop factor bodies, or if you frequently find yourself shooting in low light (in which case fast lenses will also help). From what you're saying a FF body probably isn't going to do you an awful lot of good at the moment.

On a final note, you hear people talking about 'outgrowing' a camera. This to me is nonsense as most DSLRs these days are more than capable. I've had several DSLRs now and never have I felt that one has become 'not good enough' for my use. Your photography preferences may change or advance but cameras don't suddenly become inferior to the user.

Karl


User currently offlinetrvyyz From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

It is a 350D, it is too old and can breakdown any time. The 600D sensor image would be as good as the 7D. Normally everyone will recommed the lens, but in this case it is time to moveon from the old body. The high iso on the 600d will be far superior and also the more mega pixel will give more detail in the shots with a decent lens, with more room to crop. 5D mkIII would be the best if you can afford it, but you'd still be able to see some improvement if you go with the 600D.

[Edited 2013-06-26 07:56:13]

User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Quoting trvyyz (Reply 11):
It is a 350D, it is too old

In what way is it too old? A 350D is still a very capable camera in the right hands. As long as it's fully functional and looked after, there's no reason a 350D can't product good quality photos with the right lens and in the right hands. If the shutter count is high, I agree it's bound to fail at some point but to simple upgrade a camera just because it's old may not give the desired outcome.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2651 times:

I'm with Darren here - the user's 350D might be in good condition, with very few actuations. Upgrading simply because a camera is 'old' is only a step up from money dropped down a drain if you ask me.

Quoting trvyyz (Reply 11):
The high iso on the 600d will be far superior and also the more mega pixel will give more detail in the shots with a decent lens, with more room to crop. 5D mkIII would be the best if you can afford it, but you'd still be able to see some improvement if you go with the 600D

Not necessarily. The more megapixels you cram onto a sensor of limited size, the less detail each individual pixel will retain. Additionally, each pixel will lose a certain degree of sharpness. With regard to noise performance the low-end cameras are much-of-a-muchness, irrespective of age. High ISO performance on a 600D won't be too much better (if at all better) than that of a 350D.

The 600D won't make your images any better per se - and it certainly won't help image quality as much as a decent lens.

Bottom line? If you have the spare cash to afford a 600D, then why not? But if you are looking for one thing to improve your photography, you should make it a good lens.

Karl


User currently offlinetrvyyz From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

I have used the Rebel XT, was very good at that time, then used 40D, 60D. I guarantee that the IQ of 60D is much better than 350D in all respects. The sensor technology has evolved a lot if you guys are not aware of current technology, they can increase the MP from 8 to 18 MP with better performance. the arguments of early 2000's don't fly today.

I speak from experience and sources to back it up, I have used camera with both those 8 and 18MP sensors. Don't take my word, see the links below.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cam...era-Sensor-Database/Canon/EOS-350D
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cam...era-Sensor-Database/Canon/EOS-600D

Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 12):
In what way is it too old? A 350D

The op said it is 6 years old, things don't last for ever, it has shutter cycle life and other parts also can fail.


User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9901 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2644 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting trvyyz (Reply 14):
The op said it is 6 years old, things don't last for ever, it has shutter cycle life and other parts also can fail.

That's certainly true, but assuming the 350D is in good working order, and looking at his post again:

Quoting mcmoreton (Thread starter):
My aim is to upload photos to Airliners.net

...there's absolutely no need to upgrade to upload photos here.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

trvyyz,

We've gone from talking about the 600D to the 60D here - the latter clearly being a camera higher up the Canon hierarchy.

Technology has indeed improved generally, but in some ways it's actually gone backwards. A camera of 18mp should resolve more than double the detail of one of 8mp but it doesn't work like that. On a per-pixel basis we are actually losing detail/sharpness as we try and cram more megapixels onto a crop sensor.

IQ and detail are improving, but not to the extent the maths would suggest. Let's not forget that the quality of the glass also helps with detail and sharpness.

If the OP's 350D is in good working order there's little reason to choose a new body over decent glass - unless of course cost is no obstacle.

A good photographer - who knows the limitations of his equipment - will produce great results with whatever lands in his hands. Knowledge is more important than the value of your gear. From the tone of the OP I reckon he's got quite a bit of use still left in his current DSLR.

Karl


User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2623 times:

Quoting trvyyz (Reply 14):
The sensor technology has evolved a lot if you guys are not aware of current technology

Myself and Karl are fully aware of that as we both use 50D's, but the 350D is still very capable. For uploading here at 1024 pixels, you'd be hard pressed to tell if a photo was taken with a 350D, 60D or 1DX for that matter in decent light.

Quoting trvyyz (Reply 14):
The op said it is 6 years old, things don't last for ever, it has shutter cycle life and other parts also can fail.

Agreed, as I said above but if it's only had moderate use, it's got a few more years life in it yet. A couple of the guys at my local airport are still using 300D's and get great results. My 350D has 40,000 actuation's on it and is still going strong. It'll fail at some point like all cameras when they reach their shutter limits, but just because it's 6 years old doesn't mean it's redundant.

As long as the body is functioning as it should, investment in a lens will give far greater results than a few more mega pixels or frames per second. You don't need the latest camera model to get photos accepted on here.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlinetrvyyz From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 16):
We've gone from talking about the 600D to the 60D here - the latter clearly being a camera higher up the Canon hierarchy.

They use the same 18MP sensor, AF systems or processor could be different, on photo will not be much different.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 16):
On a per-pixel basis we are actually losing detail/sharpness as we try and cram more megapixels onto a crop sensor.

that applies up to 50D, after that by 7D/60D they changed the architecture of the sensor to offset the disadvantage.
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos7d.do
GAPLESS MICROLENSES
Although the sensor records the light, it’s the microlenses above each pixel that funnel the light into the pixel ‘well’. The EOS 7D uses a gapless microlens design, like the EOS 50D, to gather the light more efficiently. Coupled with this, the distance between the sensor and the microlenses has been reduced, as seen on the EOS 5D Mark II. The combination of these improvements is low noise levels at all ISO settings and higher pixel sensitivity. In effect the most advanced parts of both the EOS 50D and EOS 5D Mark II sensors have been put together to produce the EOS 7D’s sensor.

600D uses the same sensor.

In short the sensor of a 40D as well as a 60D is better than that of the 50D. You can check on DXO.
I used the rebel XT after the 60D as my second body for some time, I could see the difference. In all canons I have used , the 40D was my favourite.


User currently offlineJakTrax From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 4936 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

The 40D was perhaps the pinnacle at which the megapixel count and image clarity were perfectly balanced. I never trust IQ tests and general reviews because the circumstances of the tests differ wildly from those in which I tend to use a camera. Such tests are also often conducted with pre-production models and with a specific lens or lenses.

The 7D at low ISO is known to be overly noisy, despite what reviews say. There are plenty of threads here for reference. I myself used one very briefly and was surprised at how noisy images were straight from the camera compared to those produced by the 50D. That's why I didn't buy one in the end. Initial tests raved about the 7D but ultimately it isn't the perfect tool for those seeking a low noise output. Great camera none-the-less (particularly for action), but possibly should have performed a little better considering its dual processors.

I'm not discounting your info here - I'm simply saying that the best tests are those you do yourself. When I buy a camera the only person who needs to be satisfied is me; if I'm not satisfied it doesn't matter what all the reviews in the world say. In my own head-to-head test, the 50D performed better for me in aviation. At a football (soccer) match, standing at the sidelines, things may be a lot different.

Karl


User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Quoting trvyyz (Reply 18):
In all canons I have used , the 40D was my favourite.

Which proves the point. Newer is not always better. If the 350D still offers what the OP wants, there's no need to upgrade and the money is better invested in the lens, not the body.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
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