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Editing Questions  
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 178 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

Hey,

Basically I want to clarify exactly what it is stating to do..

Quote:
STEP 5: Sharpening

This step can make or break your image. Too little sharpening will cause an image to look soft, too much sharpening causes jagged lines, grain and a white lining around all edges with high contrast. It’s crucial to find a right balance between the two.
Sharpening is only useful for areas with high detail. Large areas without detail, like the sky, should not be sharpened. If this is done this will only lead to unnecessary forming of grain. The trick is to deselect the sky when sharpening.
First, duplicate the background layer for a later purpose. Right-click on the background layer and choose “Duplicate Layer”.
Use the “magic wand”-tool (see red circle below). This selects everything with the same intensity. You can set the tolerance in the Options toolbar (other red circle, set at 5 in this example). Press anywhere in the sky and it will select a big area. Press “shift” and click on an area in the sky that has not been selected yet. It will be added to your selection. Do this until you have selected the whole sky.

selecting the background

The amount of times you need to repeat this depends in the tolerance you have set.
Next, invert the selection: menu “Select -> Inverse”. Now you’ve selected everything but the sky. As sometimes the ‘marching ants’ that indicate the selection border now cover the airplane, expand the selection with 1 pixel, to make sure all edges of the aircraft are in the selected area: Menu “Select -> Modify -> Expand”.
Now you can sharpen. There are many roads that lead to Rome and this is just one of them. Apply USM (menu “Filter -> Sharpen -> Unsharp Mask…”) with the following parameters: 200, 0.2, 0.
To prevent a hard transition from sharpened to unsharpened areas; expand the selection with 1 pixel before applying another pass of USM. Repeat this until you find a desired level of sharpness. (Smooth transition from selected to unselected areas can also be done using the “feather” feature).
If in this process jagged lines appear, they can be smoothened again by using the Eraser-tool (with a small brush size). Sharpening was only applied to the Background Copy layer, so the background layer is still unsharpened. If you erase on the sharpened layer, the unsharpened layer underneath will appear (without jagged lines). Also, if grain has come out during sharpening, erasing in the sharpened layer can also reduce this.
When all is as desired: flatten the image (combining all layers).
Menu: “Layer -> Flatten Image”
(You can also create a new layer every time you do one pass of USM. Duplicate layer, USM, erase jaggies, flatten the layers and repeat the process again, duplicate, USM, erase jaggies, flatten. Etc.)

The part where i'm confused is if I want to sharpen another round, do I need to once again deselect everything and use the "magic wand" re-do all steps ....duplicating the layer and follow the same steps?

Or because the aircraft is already selected just follow the "SELECT>>MODIFY>>INCREASE 1 pixel>>UNSHARP MASK and repeat?

All help is appreciated.


View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5552 times:

IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

John



Just like the shirt says, Boeing Builds It Better!
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5544 times:

Thanks John for your reply, so just to clarify..

Lasso the aircraft then>>FILTER>>SHARPEN>>UNSHARP MASK and the first round AMOUNT "40%" / RADIUS "0.2" / THRESHOLD "0"

then second round 20% and so on?

Do you increase the pixels at all? or above is what you do and thats fine?

THanks again!



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineeskillawl From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

Quoting DL747 (Reply 1):

IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

John

I cant understand why you're saying this. It all depends on how soft/un crisp the aircraft is. With other words, there's no magic number to get the perfect sharpness, it all depends on how soft your photo is.



Photo equipment: Canon EOS 60D | Canon 70-200 F4L USM | Canon 18-55 3:5-5:6 |
User currently offlineviv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5478 times:

If your photo from the camera is in focus and shows no motion blur and if in-camera sharpening is set to 'off', one pass of Smartsharpen at 75%, radius 0.3 will usually be all you need. It's normally all I ever do.

If your photo from the camera is out of focus or suffers from motion blur, no amount of farting about in Photoshop will fix it.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5415 times:

Great feedback everyone so many different ways in doing quality!

Just one concern I want to clarify regardless how many times a person will do a round of sharpening around the aircraft when it is selected with the lasso or magic want tool, if you want to go another round of sharpening do you have to de-select the aircraft and once again go around with the lasso or magic wand and apply? Or just apply it again without de-selecting the aircraft from the round of sharpening as its already been selected?

Thanks!



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9396 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5413 times:
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Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 5):
Just one concern I want to clarify regardless how many times a person will do a round of sharpening around the aircraft when it is selected with the lasso or magic want tool, if you want to go another round of sharpening do you have to de-select the aircraft and once again go around with the lasso or magic wand and apply? Or just apply it again without de-selecting the aircraft from the round of sharpening as its already been selected?

Just apply again without de- and re-selecting.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineclickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9601 posts, RR: 69
Reply 7, posted (9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5400 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting viv (Reply 4):
no amount of farting about in Photoshop will fix it.

                       


User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5390 times:

Thanks again everyone for your feedback  

Also caught some new shots this time went later on in the day managed to catch couple 747s. Sunlight was just pleasant It looks as pics came our decent.

Will post soon  



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4737 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5361 times:
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I generally sharpen the entire photo in one pass using a duplicate layer and then using a layer mask I "erase" sharpening in select areas if/where needed.

My method: Duplicate layer.
Sharpen using USM at 500% radius .2 threshold 2.
Create later mask
Using a brush at 25% opacity, I "paint" over areas that appear over sharp. Repeat as necessary.
Flatten layers. Done.

If I need to sharpen aircraft only, I duplicate layer and sharpen the bottom layer and using a layer mask on top layer, I "paint" in the sharpened aircraft from the bottom layer.

Very simple and offers great control.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9396 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5352 times:
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Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 9):
My method: Duplicate layer.
Sharpen using USM at 500% radius .2 threshold 2.
Create later mask
Using a brush at 25% opacity, I "paint" over areas that appear over sharp. Repeat as necessary.
Flatten layers. Done.

Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask? I do basically the same thing as you - duplicate layer, sharpen the duplicated layer, then erase on the sharpened layer as necessary with a brush at 50% opacity. What does the layer mask gain you?



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4737 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5349 times:
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Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask? I do basically the same thing as you - duplicate layer, sharpen the duplicated layer, then erase on the sharpened layer as necessary with a brush at 50% opacity. What does the layer mask gain you?

It gives you the ability to undo or reverse the changes, and at various strengths for even greater control. And you're not limited to Photoshop's history to go back and undo.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 713 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask?

Ask anyone how to do anything in PS and you'll find at least 3 or 4 different ways to achieve the same effect. Partly due to the way PS has developed over the years, partly due to the fact it tries to accommodate both photographers and graphic artists. There's not necessarily a 'best' method.

As a point of info, you can vary the strengths undo/reverse etc. with a duplicate layer as well. Which is better is a matter of personal choice, and perhaps what else you are doing with the image(s).

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9396 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5326 times:
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Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 11):
It gives you the ability to undo or reverse the changes, and at various strengths for even greater control. And you're not limited to Photoshop's history to go back and undo.

I see. Thanks.

Quoting ckw (Reply 12):

Ask anyone how to do anything in PS and you'll find at least 3 or 4 different ways to achieve the same effect. Partly due to the way PS has developed over the years, partly due to the fact it tries to accommodate both photographers and graphic artists. There's not necessarily a 'best' method.

I know. That's why I asked.... 



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineDL747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5305 times:

Quoting eskillawl (Reply 3):
I cant understand why you're saying this. It all depends on how soft/un crisp the aircraft is. With other words, there's no magic number to get the perfect sharpness, it all depends on how soft your photo is.

Hence why I said ish. Ish meaning that it can vary a lot. Most of my shots are around those values.

John



Just like the shirt says, Boeing Builds It Better!
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Does anyone use Lightroom for processing, as opposed to the full photoshop?

User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5075 times:

http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php

I wrote this manual many years ago when I was a screener. Please discard it, it's old and too complicated (it seems).

E


User currently offlinejoaocs From Portugal, joined Jul 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting IL76 (Reply 16):
http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php

I read it and liked it a lot.


User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

One question...

when a photo gets rejected for being "soft" and I want to re-edit it making it sharper....is it best i start from scratch from the original photo or take the edited photo and run a pass or two of sharpen?

Thanks



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3884 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 18):

The traditional method of sharpening is in several passes, so there should be little wrong with the latter method.

However, I always save an unsharpened full-size version of my edit, so I only need to resize and sharpen in case of an oversharpened rejection  



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9396 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4632 times:
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Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 18):
is it best i start from scratch from the original photo or take the edited photo and run a pass or two of sharpen?

It depends. First of all, if your photo is too soft, no amount of sharpening will make it acceptable.

Second of all, depending on how many times you've already edited/saved the image, each time it will get more and more compressed and quality will decline.

But basically, if "soft" is the only rejection reason, and it's easily fixable, I'll just sharpen the already existing edit.

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 19):
However, I always save an unsharpened full-size version of my edit, so I only need to resize and sharpen in case of an oversharpened rejection

I do the same.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

@ ptrjong: thanks that is a good idea, I will start doing this.

@ vikkyvik: yes the reason for rejection was only "soft" i'll try to do more sharpening on it.

Thanks



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Do I absolutely need Photoshop to edit pictures to the quality of A.net? I am not very experienced so I am on a learning curve and get the part of getting the photograph right in the first place.

I am currently using Picasa and noticed that if I straighten the image even a tad, there is a perceptible loss in sharpness. Another thing I noticed when I was looking at some pictures I shot last weekend - they look way sharper in editing software that came with my camera (Canon T3i) than in Picasa. I mean the difference is big. Now I am wondering how many pictures I actually ended up screwing up because of this by my editing.

Can I get away with using Elements or something similar? If I don't want to invest in Photoshop right now?



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9396 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4338 times:
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Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements or something similar? If I don't want to invest in Photoshop right now?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yes, you can.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 week ago) and read 4316 times:

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Do I absolutely need Photoshop to edit pictures to the quality of A.net?

No you don't

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements

That's all I've used for the last 10 years. Elements is more than enough for the basic editing you need to do for here.

Bear in mind the editing process should only be about tidying up a photo to present it for here; composition, level, minor exposure and colour balance tweaks, sharpening etc. You aren't doing any heavy editing. As long as you get things right in-camera, it's a straight forward job.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
25 G-CIVP : LOL! I was taken through a method for editing photos for anet by a well known photographer and contributor. It involved sharpening the edges, removin
26 vikkyvik : I do a lot of those - selecting only the airplane using lasso or magic wand on sky + select inverse, creating a separate layer, erasing jaggies, merg
27 VTORD : Thanks for the input.
28 ptrjong : I used an old version of Photoshop for years. When it stopped working on a new computer I bought Elements 10. It is fine, really. The Curves function
29 mohammedzaheer : My real problem is to know the right balance for sharpening and best way to achieve results. I have started to use Lightroom as well now. If anyone ha
30 G-CIVP : I suggest you try 'trial and error' by starting at a low setting and slowly incrementing until you find what works for you.
31 Post contains links and images mohammedzaheer : Hi, can anyone tell me what is the best crop for this image? I had this rejected and wanted to know what crop can i use. Thanks
32 vikkyvik : I think the crop you did is probably your best bet. You could crop in to only the forward part, in front of the wing, but you'd probably lose too muc
33 Post contains images mohammedzaheer : Hi Vikkyvik, I'm working with two websites and posting 2 here and 2 there, with some getting rejected i'm trying to improve the images before posting
34 trevisan26 : I think that i'm the only one that use Pixelmator (macbook), if anyone have used Pixelmator and Photoshop too, theres a big difference? Thanks
35 Post contains links and images mohammedzaheer : Is it possible to make a blurry picture not so blurry by masking the aircraft and increase sharpening? such as this picture...does it look blurry to a
36 vikkyvik : Looks out of focus to me, rather than blurry. But either way, the amount of sharpening you'd have to apply would probably make it look terrible.
37 Post contains images mohammedzaheer : Ok, so i'll scrap this one Thanks
38 mohammedzaheer : So I had an image rejected for: Reject reason: spot removal above the horizontal stab is sloppy soft dirty personal I did edit in lightroom for the sp
39 Post contains links mjgbtv : Hi, The editing guide has a step for dust spot removal in PS: http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php
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