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Editing Questions  
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5751 times:

Hey,

Basically I want to clarify exactly what it is stating to do..

Quote:
STEP 5: Sharpening

This step can make or break your image. Too little sharpening will cause an image to look soft, too much sharpening causes jagged lines, grain and a white lining around all edges with high contrast. It’s crucial to find a right balance between the two.
Sharpening is only useful for areas with high detail. Large areas without detail, like the sky, should not be sharpened. If this is done this will only lead to unnecessary forming of grain. The trick is to deselect the sky when sharpening.
First, duplicate the background layer for a later purpose. Right-click on the background layer and choose “Duplicate Layer”.
Use the “magic wand”-tool (see red circle below). This selects everything with the same intensity. You can set the tolerance in the Options toolbar (other red circle, set at 5 in this example). Press anywhere in the sky and it will select a big area. Press “shift” and click on an area in the sky that has not been selected yet. It will be added to your selection. Do this until you have selected the whole sky.

selecting the background

The amount of times you need to repeat this depends in the tolerance you have set.
Next, invert the selection: menu “Select -> Inverse”. Now you’ve selected everything but the sky. As sometimes the ‘marching ants’ that indicate the selection border now cover the airplane, expand the selection with 1 pixel, to make sure all edges of the aircraft are in the selected area: Menu “Select -> Modify -> Expand”.
Now you can sharpen. There are many roads that lead to Rome and this is just one of them. Apply USM (menu “Filter -> Sharpen -> Unsharp Mask…”) with the following parameters: 200, 0.2, 0.
To prevent a hard transition from sharpened to unsharpened areas; expand the selection with 1 pixel before applying another pass of USM. Repeat this until you find a desired level of sharpness. (Smooth transition from selected to unselected areas can also be done using the “feather” feature).
If in this process jagged lines appear, they can be smoothened again by using the Eraser-tool (with a small brush size). Sharpening was only applied to the Background Copy layer, so the background layer is still unsharpened. If you erase on the sharpened layer, the unsharpened layer underneath will appear (without jagged lines). Also, if grain has come out during sharpening, erasing in the sharpened layer can also reduce this.
When all is as desired: flatten the image (combining all layers).
Menu: “Layer -> Flatten Image”
(You can also create a new layer every time you do one pass of USM. Duplicate layer, USM, erase jaggies, flatten the layers and repeat the process again, duplicate, USM, erase jaggies, flatten. Etc.)

The part where i'm confused is if I want to sharpen another round, do I need to once again deselect everything and use the "magic wand" re-do all steps ....duplicating the layer and follow the same steps?

Or because the aircraft is already selected just follow the "SELECT>>MODIFY>>INCREASE 1 pixel>>UNSHARP MASK and repeat?

All help is appreciated.


View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

John



Just like the shirt says, Boeing Builds It Better!
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5741 times:

Thanks John for your reply, so just to clarify..

Lasso the aircraft then>>FILTER>>SHARPEN>>UNSHARP MASK and the first round AMOUNT "40%" / RADIUS "0.2" / THRESHOLD "0"

then second round 20% and so on?

Do you increase the pixels at all? or above is what you do and thats fine?

THanks again!



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineeskillawl From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

Quoting DL747 (Reply 1):

IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

John

I cant understand why you're saying this. It all depends on how soft/un crisp the aircraft is. With other words, there's no magic number to get the perfect sharpness, it all depends on how soft your photo is.



Photo equipment: Canon EOS 60D | Canon 70-200 F4L USM | Canon 18-55 3:5-5:6 |
User currently offlineviv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5674 times:

If your photo from the camera is in focus and shows no motion blur and if in-camera sharpening is set to 'off', one pass of Smartsharpen at 75%, radius 0.3 will usually be all you need. It's normally all I ever do.

If your photo from the camera is out of focus or suffers from motion blur, no amount of farting about in Photoshop will fix it.



Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Great feedback everyone so many different ways in doing quality!

Just one concern I want to clarify regardless how many times a person will do a round of sharpening around the aircraft when it is selected with the lasso or magic want tool, if you want to go another round of sharpening do you have to de-select the aircraft and once again go around with the lasso or magic wand and apply? Or just apply it again without de-selecting the aircraft from the round of sharpening as its already been selected?

Thanks!



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5609 times:

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 5):
Just one concern I want to clarify regardless how many times a person will do a round of sharpening around the aircraft when it is selected with the lasso or magic want tool, if you want to go another round of sharpening do you have to de-select the aircraft and once again go around with the lasso or magic wand and apply? Or just apply it again without de-selecting the aircraft from the round of sharpening as its already been selected?

Just apply again without de- and re-selecting.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineclickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5596 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting viv (Reply 4):
no amount of farting about in Photoshop will fix it.

                       


User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

Thanks again everyone for your feedback  

Also caught some new shots this time went later on in the day managed to catch couple 747s. Sunlight was just pleasant It looks as pics came our decent.

Will post soon  



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently onlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4858 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5557 times:
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I generally sharpen the entire photo in one pass using a duplicate layer and then using a layer mask I "erase" sharpening in select areas if/where needed.

My method: Duplicate layer.
Sharpen using USM at 500% radius .2 threshold 2.
Create later mask
Using a brush at 25% opacity, I "paint" over areas that appear over sharp. Repeat as necessary.
Flatten layers. Done.

If I need to sharpen aircraft only, I duplicate layer and sharpen the bottom layer and using a layer mask on top layer, I "paint" in the sharpened aircraft from the bottom layer.

Very simple and offers great control.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 9):
My method: Duplicate layer.
Sharpen using USM at 500% radius .2 threshold 2.
Create later mask
Using a brush at 25% opacity, I "paint" over areas that appear over sharp. Repeat as necessary.
Flatten layers. Done.

Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask? I do basically the same thing as you - duplicate layer, sharpen the duplicated layer, then erase on the sharpened layer as necessary with a brush at 50% opacity. What does the layer mask gain you?



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently onlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4858 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5545 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask? I do basically the same thing as you - duplicate layer, sharpen the duplicated layer, then erase on the sharpened layer as necessary with a brush at 50% opacity. What does the layer mask gain you?

It gives you the ability to undo or reverse the changes, and at various strengths for even greater control. And you're not limited to Photoshop's history to go back and undo.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 767 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Random question - why do you need to create a layer mask?

Ask anyone how to do anything in PS and you'll find at least 3 or 4 different ways to achieve the same effect. Partly due to the way PS has developed over the years, partly due to the fact it tries to accommodate both photographers and graphic artists. There's not necessarily a 'best' method.

As a point of info, you can vary the strengths undo/reverse etc. with a duplicate layer as well. Which is better is a matter of personal choice, and perhaps what else you are doing with the image(s).

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 11):
It gives you the ability to undo or reverse the changes, and at various strengths for even greater control. And you're not limited to Photoshop's history to go back and undo.

I see. Thanks.

Quoting ckw (Reply 12):

Ask anyone how to do anything in PS and you'll find at least 3 or 4 different ways to achieve the same effect. Partly due to the way PS has developed over the years, partly due to the fact it tries to accommodate both photographers and graphic artists. There's not necessarily a 'best' method.

I know. That's why I asked.... 



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineDL747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5501 times:

Quoting eskillawl (Reply 3):
I cant understand why you're saying this. It all depends on how soft/un crisp the aircraft is. With other words, there's no magic number to get the perfect sharpness, it all depends on how soft your photo is.

Hence why I said ish. Ish meaning that it can vary a lot. Most of my shots are around those values.

John



Just like the shirt says, Boeing Builds It Better!
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Does anyone use Lightroom for processing, as opposed to the full photoshop?

User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2239 posts, RR: 48
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php

I wrote this manual many years ago when I was a screener. Please discard it, it's old and too complicated (it seems).

E


User currently offlinejoaocs From Portugal, joined Jul 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

Quoting IL76 (Reply 16):
http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php

I read it and liked it a lot.


User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

One question...

when a photo gets rejected for being "soft" and I want to re-edit it making it sharper....is it best i start from scratch from the original photo or take the edited photo and run a pass or two of sharpen?

Thanks



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 18):

The traditional method of sharpening is in several passes, so there should be little wrong with the latter method.

However, I always save an unsharpened full-size version of my edit, so I only need to resize and sharpen in case of an oversharpened rejection  



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 18):
is it best i start from scratch from the original photo or take the edited photo and run a pass or two of sharpen?

It depends. First of all, if your photo is too soft, no amount of sharpening will make it acceptable.

Second of all, depending on how many times you've already edited/saved the image, each time it will get more and more compressed and quality will decline.

But basically, if "soft" is the only rejection reason, and it's easily fixable, I'll just sharpen the already existing edit.

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 19):
However, I always save an unsharpened full-size version of my edit, so I only need to resize and sharpen in case of an oversharpened rejection

I do the same.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

@ ptrjong: thanks that is a good idea, I will start doing this.

@ vikkyvik: yes the reason for rejection was only "soft" i'll try to do more sharpening on it.

Thanks



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Do I absolutely need Photoshop to edit pictures to the quality of A.net? I am not very experienced so I am on a learning curve and get the part of getting the photograph right in the first place.

I am currently using Picasa and noticed that if I straighten the image even a tad, there is a perceptible loss in sharpness. Another thing I noticed when I was looking at some pictures I shot last weekend - they look way sharper in editing software that came with my camera (Canon T3i) than in Picasa. I mean the difference is big. Now I am wondering how many pictures I actually ended up screwing up because of this by my editing.

Can I get away with using Elements or something similar? If I don't want to invest in Photoshop right now?



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements or something similar? If I don't want to invest in Photoshop right now?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yes, you can.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2934 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Do I absolutely need Photoshop to edit pictures to the quality of A.net?

No you don't

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements

That's all I've used for the last 10 years. Elements is more than enough for the basic editing you need to do for here.

Bear in mind the editing process should only be about tidying up a photo to present it for here; composition, level, minor exposure and colour balance tweaks, sharpening etc. You aren't doing any heavy editing. As long as you get things right in-camera, it's a straight forward job.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1336 posts, RR: 10
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

Quoting DL747 (Reply 1):
IMO, sharpening doesn't need to be this complex. Simply lasso the aircraft roughly, do one pass at 40ish, 0.8, and another at 20ish, 0.3. That is what I do with CS2 and it works fine. All this stuff is unnecessary.

LOL! I was taken through a method for editing photos for anet by a well known photographer and contributor. It involved sharpening the edges, removing jaggies with the eraser tool, using the lasso tool, creating layers, deselecting the sky, etc, etc. The average time it took to process a photo was 15 minutes!

As John and Colin suggest, you can cut out an awful lot of steps for uploading what are low resolution jpegs to the site. If your original photo is in focus and taken in good light (sic), there is very little need for substantial post processing. I would suggest the method roughly outlined by Darren is near the mark but bear in mind each photographer has their own methods and what works for them, may not work for you.


User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 25):
LOL! I was taken through a method for editing photos for anet by a well known photographer and contributor. It involved sharpening the edges, removing jaggies with the eraser tool, using the lasso tool, creating layers, deselecting the sky, etc, etc. The average time it took to process a photo was 15 minutes!

I do a lot of those - selecting only the airplane using lasso or magic wand on sky + select inverse, creating a separate layer, erasing jaggies, merging layers, etc., and that whole process only takes me about a minute. Editing a whole photo is probably around 3 minutes for a typical side-on for me. Could be faster if I tweaked the process further or focused more, but I'm pretty happy.

It's just a matter of getting used to a workflow and tweaking it to suit your needs.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Thanks for the input.


Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 18
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Can I get away with using Elements

I used an old version of Photoshop for years. When it stopped working on a new computer I bought Elements 10.

It is fine, really. The Curves function is more primitive, but that should teach me not to overuse curves.

Oddly the thingy I miss most is that Elements doesn't tell you by how many degrees you are rotating the picture when applaying an 'arbitrary' rotation. Or can it somehow? This was sometimes helpful in making photos level for me.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4197 times:

My real problem is to know the right balance for sharpening and best way to achieve results.

I have started to use Lightroom as well now.

If anyone has preferred settings etc please do share.

Thanks



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1336 posts, RR: 10
Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

I suggest you try 'trial and error' by starting at a low setting and slowly incrementing until you find what works for you.

User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Hi, can anyone tell me what is the best crop for this image?




I had this rejected and wanted to know what crop can i use.



Thanks



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 32, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

Quoting mohammedzaheer (Reply 31):
Hi, can anyone tell me what is the best crop for this image?

I think the crop you did is probably your best bet. You could crop in to only the forward part, in front of the wing, but you'd probably lose too much quality that way.

With that said, I don't see that image among your rejections. When was it rejected?



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3883 times:

Hi Vikkyvik,

I'm working with two websites and posting 2 here and 2 there, with some getting rejected i'm trying to improve the images before posting on the same or other website. By the looks of it depends on the screener or website and motives for crop.

I was in the process posting this image up next because of the rejection i'd rather get input on what is best to do with this image before posting on a.net. Now that you have said it looks fine i'll wait for the photos in queue to be screened and just sharpen a bit more and post it up.

 



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently onlinetrevisan26 From Brazil, joined Feb 2013, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

I think that i'm the only one that use Pixelmator (macbook), if anyone have used Pixelmator and Photoshop too, theres a big difference?
Thanks


User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

Is it possible to make a blurry picture not so blurry by masking the aircraft and increase sharpening?

such as this picture...does it look blurry to anyone? can i apply more sharpening to it?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9950/m2wx.jpg

[Edited 2013-09-05 13:58:01]


View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 36, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

Looks out of focus to me, rather than blurry. But either way, the amount of sharpening you'd have to apply would probably make it look terrible.


How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

Ok, so i'll scrap this one  

Thanks



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlinemohammedzaheer From Canada, joined Jun 2013, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3015 times:

So I had an image rejected for:

Reject reason: spot removal above the horizontal stab is sloppy soft dirty personal

I did edit in lightroom for the spot removal, however didn't seem to be the best job. Is it best for me to export the image without resizing having the spot removed in another software or can lightroom actually remove spots and maybe I missed something?

If I can have it removed in another software after the edit what is the best recommendation removing dust spots?

Thanks

Mohammed



View the photos by Mohammed Zaheer on Airliners.net!
User currently offlinemjgbtv From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

Hi,

The editing guide has a step for dust spot removal in PS: http://www.airliners.net/faq/editing_guide.php


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