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Correct Exposure In The Cockpit  
User currently offlineyerbol From Kazakhstan, joined Feb 2010, 223 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Dear friends,
This cockpit photo was receintly rejected and the reason was "windows overexposed".
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...0728_e1373990441.4874p4-kcb767.jpg
Should I use a flash or what should I try to do to get correct exposure?
What if I do not have a flash with me every time?
Brgds, Yerbol [Almaty Spottign Club].

[Edited 2013-07-30 02:24:09]


With best regards from Almaty
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineeskillawl From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Yerbol, this is a very intresting question. A few days ago I posted the same question in the photography feedback forum, without getting any answers. I posted a photo of mine in the que,
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/b1374961778.865se-dir.jpg

I referred to these two recently added photos, where the outside of the windows are very overexposed.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © JangSu Lee - Korea Aero Photos
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthias Geiger



So whats the answer? As all screeners seem to have different thoughts in this question, and nothing is mentioned in the rejection reasons guide, I guess I'll have to wait and see?  

[Edited 2013-07-30 02:46:49]


Photo equipment: Canon EOS 60D | Canon 70-200 F4L USM | Canon 18-55 3:5-5:6 |
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 740 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

Quoting yerbol (Thread starter):
Should I use a flash or what should I try to do to get correct exposure?

Quite simply you generally can't get a correct exposure - the lighting range between inside and outside is well beyond what any sensor can handle.

There are I think only 2 solutions:

1 - combine 2 images with different exposures (probably not allowed here)
2 - carry a flash. To be honest, a small pocket size flash is inexpensive and doesn't eat much space. I have one with me all the time. I don't use it much, but it has saved the day on more than one occasion. Make sure you get one that can be tilted to allow bounced flash. I'd say the pocket flash is just one of those essentials like spare batteries or memory cards.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

Quoting yerbol (Thread starter):

Hi Yerbol,

I'm not a technically very good photographer, but it's surprisingly easy. Meter the outside, and use the flash to expose the cockpit while retaining the settings for the outside. This was shot with the inbuilt flash of my DSLR.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter De Jong



Peter 



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineacontador From Chile, joined Jul 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3432 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Hi Guys,

As Peter pointed out, it is really not that complicated to get a correct exposure in shots with a high range of light, like a cockpit shot during the day. As he said, meter for the outside and use fill-in flash. Try to point the flash upwards and rearwards, there is enough light bouncing back from the ceiling and you will avoid ugly flash reflections.

Here I could use the external flash correctly:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrés Contador - AirTeamImages



In this case, the external flash didn't work (forgot to recharge the batteries  ), so I had to use the built-in flash, and you can see the reflections on the dashboard:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrés Contador - AirTeamImages



Now, there are no specific rules about cokpit shots, but there is clearly a rule about overexpossing shots. I normally will look at such a pictures and try to judge whether the overexpossed part is small and does not really detract from the picture, or if it represents a rather big portion of the picture. Usually, together with an overexpossed part you will find very dark ones too and a harsh contrast, all recepies for a poor quality picture.

Cheers,
Andres



Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10026 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3384 times:
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Quoting acontador (Reply 4):
I normally will look at such a pictures and try to judge whether the overexpossed part is small and does not really detract from the picture, or if it represents a rather big portion of the picture.

I fully agree with this. Same goes for overexposed sky, etc.

Quoting eskillawl (Reply 1):
A few days ago I posted the same question in the photography feedback forum, without getting any answers. I posted a photo of mine in the que,

I didn't respond because you posted a 2nd time and seemed to have the answer to your question.  Smile

[Edited 2013-07-30 07:40:57]


"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

Quoting yerbol (Thread starter):
Should I use a flash or what should I try to do to get correct exposure?

Expose for the outside, use fill flash on the inside.

Quoting yerbol (Thread starter):
What if I do not have a flash with me every time?

You have to decide what's the most important, the outside or the inside. If it's the inside, concentrate on the flight deck and not the view through the windows so you can get a correct exposure for the inside without having to worry about the brightness of the outside. For example;


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Darren Wilson



I wasn't expect to need my flash and hadn't charged the batteries. They were flat by the time I come to take this shot so I only concentrated on the inside, not the whole flight deck or I'd have had exposure problems.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlineeskillawl From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3288 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
I didn't respond because you posted a 2nd time and seemed to have the answer to your question.

I thought I was right, which I clearly wasnt, as this goes as over exposed.  

What Peter was saying was very helpful, I will definitely learn to bring my external flash with me on flights etc. Thanks!



Photo equipment: Canon EOS 60D | Canon 70-200 F4L USM | Canon 18-55 3:5-5:6 |
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10026 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3281 times:
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Quoting eskillawl (Reply 7):
I thought I was right, which I clearly wasnt, as this goes as over exposed.

As noted, it depends on how distracting the overexposure is to the overall shot. I can't see your photo anymore, but I'd be happy to have a look if you want to post it in the Feedback forum again.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4811 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3277 times:
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Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 8):
As noted, it depends on how distracting the overexposure is to the overall shot. I can't see your photo anymore, but I'd be happy to have a look if you want to post it in the Feedback forum again.

For me, overexposure becomes distracting when it bleeds into the cockpit and starts to blow out seats and the top of instrument panel. If it's isolated to just the windows, I'm not bothered. But I'm not a screener...

Personally, I don't care for cockpit photos taken with flash because it alters the scene with the artificial light. Hot spots on the instrument panel and losing the beautiful light-up instrument displays ruins the atmosphere. I just don't care for that look, even though that's the correct way for this site.

What I do is find as good a balance as possible with one exposure and tweak the RAW carefully to recover some of the blown out highlights and open as much of the dark cockpit as possible. If done carefully with a modern DSLR, it's possible to get a good shot without a flash, and you keep true to how it looks in reality.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineeskillawl From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 8):
As noted, it depends on how distracting the overexposure is to the overall shot. I can't see your photo anymore, but I'd be happy to have a look if you want to post it in the Feedback forum again.

Thank you Vik. My photo is still visible in the feedback thread i started. White Outside Cockpit Window (by eskillawl Jul 26 2013 in Photography Feedback)  



Photo equipment: Canon EOS 60D | Canon 70-200 F4L USM | Canon 18-55 3:5-5:6 |
User currently offlineviv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3202 times:

Expose for the outside scene. Set those values manually and use a flash to light the interior.


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineyerbol From Kazakhstan, joined Feb 2010, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Dear all,
Looks like it is better to use a flash for cockpit shots. I have noticed that most of shown examples taken with flash.
After your help my flash went straight to the bag   
Thanks to all for help!



With best regards from Almaty
User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 740 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

As well as bouncing the flash, softening the light as much as possible can help avoid that harsh look and reduce spot reflections. There are loads of diffusers and reflectors on the market - but in a pinch even a white handkerchief over the flash head can help - obviously these reduce the light output, but in the small space of a cockpit the spread of light is generally more important than the strength.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineyerbol From Kazakhstan, joined Feb 2010, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

Well noted Colin, thanks! Looking forward to try to use my flash and see the results.
Brgds,
Yerbol



With best regards from Almaty
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