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Photo Use, Going Rates?  
User currently offlineGunnarInLA From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 24 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2888 times:

I recently got a request from a prominent British aviation magazine to use a photo for cover of the magazine...but I declined...
(It was a shot of a British Airways A380) – They offered 100 pounds (!!!) (...about 150 US bucks) and requested original file from camera...!
...not a chance...but what I wanted to ask about here was the offer – 100 pounds for a cover...? That strikes me as low, very low – what say you...?
...what would they pay for similar in the US...?
...they had found the (picture) file on flickr, which was cool...

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10096 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2862 times:
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I don't know what the going rate is in the US...or even if there is one...but I wouldn't sell for the cover of a prominent magazine for 100 pounds either.

I've sold photos for personal use for that much...



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2767 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Did you ask how the photo was going to be used? If it was a full-bleed cover, then 100 Pounds isn't enough. But if it was only an inset photo on the cover, inset into the main photo as a sub-teaser, then 100 Pounds would be reasonable.

As to why they want the original camera file. For reproduction purposes, they usually wish to do any post-processing themselves to achieve the reproduction quality they want. You just have to cover yourself by having a contract that says "for single time use only", or some such line.

You have to ask the right questions when someone contacts you. Much depends on the usage and at what price.


User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 745 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

You title may be different, but the going rate for covers in the UK is around £100 - £150. I think you'll find that most UK newstand magazines have a set rate for picture usage, and unless your image is very special indeed (unique) these prices are pretty much non-negotiable.

Certainly in the UK most of the enthusiast titles are struggling for survival as advertising revenue has crashed over the last few years, so money is very tight.

Whether this is fair or reasonable is another matter - it is what it is, and as they saying goes, you can't get blood from a stone.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1331 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting ckw (Reply 3):

Certainly in the UK most of the enthusiast titles are struggling for survival as advertising revenue has crashed over the last few years, so money is very tight.

Good point. Payment of £100 doesn't seem unreasonable given the circulation of enthusiast magazines isn't going to be huge and at an educated guess, around several thousand issues at most.


User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 745 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 4):
given the circulation of enthusiast magazines isn't going to be huge

As an editor has explained it to me, income from sales is not an issue - his circulation is actually increasing, but it's advertising that pays for nearly everything. Given that enthusiast mags are generally advertising luxury goods/"toys" etc, they are particularly vulnerable to economic down turns. There simply isn't a big market for these at the moment, so they're not been advertised to the same degree.

I've noticed that some titles have been getting noticeably slimmer - and that's not due to lack of material - sheer cost cutting and missing ad pages.

The funny thing is, many companies think they are better off putting money into advertising on the web - but, after you cut away the hype, there is very little evidence that "webvertising" is cost effective.

The sad thing is that once an advertising client is lost, it's very hard to get them back, even when things pick up - it may well be that the enthusiast magazine is on it's last legs.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting GunnarInLA (Thread starter):
They offered 100 pounds (!!!) (...about 150 US bucks) and requested original file from camera...!

That sounds pretty reasonable to me, I'd have had no problem letting them have it for that. It's not like BA A380 photos are rare. £100 is the price offered for front covers in my experience, in the aviation magazine world anyway.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2345 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2775 times:

Quoting ckw (Reply 5):
As an editor has explained it to me, income from sales is not an issue - his circulation is actually increasing, but it's advertising that pays for nearly everything.

From nearly 20 years in the newspaper advertising side of the house, I can tell you that advertising accounts for 80-90% of revenue. You could almost give it away for free and not miss much revenue.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineGunnarInLA From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

vikkyvik – I WOULD have sold for 200 dollars...IF...they used my processed image...if they insisted on a raw file...they would have had to pay 1200...for that much I probably would have relented...he he he....

photopilot – ...nah, they wanted to use for as main photo...they sent pdf file to illustrate...100 pounds (150 dollars approx) is low for any kind of magazine cover...as for processing, well, they couldn't match my processing and for that reason alone, it wasn't worth the risk...(I don't use ACR for processing...not knocking it, just don't use it)

ckw – ...cool – good to know, that's what I was hoping for, facts about this situation...interesting use of the word "title"...is that commonly used in Britain when in the US one might use the word "file"...?

dazbo5 – ...yes, I hear ya and I might have accepted IF...they were OK with my processed image...which is what sold them in the first place...but a RAW file..? – ...not a chance...

Thanks all for feedback – much appreciated


User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2616 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2766 times:
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I don't understand why a RAW file is such a big deal. You write up an agreement that they can only use it once, get the money and move on. 1200 pounds?? Good luck with that. Seems like you have a bit of an inflated ego about how valuable your photo is. There are tons of BA A380 pics floating around.

Quoting GunnarInLA (Reply 8):
as for processing, well, they couldn't match my processing and for that reason alone, it wasn't worth the risk

How do you know they can't process? And more importantly, who cares? It's their magazine cover and they should publish the photo processed the way they like it.


User currently offlineckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 745 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting GunnarInLA (Reply 8):
.interesting use of the word "title".

Um well I use it meaning a particular publication ... I don't know if its common use, but it is in the publication world.

Not sure why you are so hung up on the request for a RAW file. I think you have to accept that if its being used fro a cover its CERTAINLY going to need manipulation - if for no other reason than to optimise it for that particular magazine's production process. But given its for a cover, its not going to sit alone on the page ... there will be titling, and possibly inset pics, so work will need to be done on the image. Better they work with an original rather than reprocess an already processed file.

If you sell to magazines you just have to accept they ARE going to mess with your image - I had a cover recently which I didn't recognise when I first saw it as the photo editor had dropped an interesting sky over what had originally been grey overcast. That's a bit extreme, but not unique. I would expect some tweaking to take place as the printing process and paper stock will have specific requirements for optimum results. Frankly, as long as I get paid, they can do what they like (well within reason).

On the other hand I have also had images printed which looked pretty bad due to issues with the printing press, which is gonna screw up your image no matter how carefully prepared it is. I bet if you took a few issues of the same magazine from different sources and laid them side by side you would notice some variation in colour, contrast etc.

This isn't fine art!

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

Quoting GunnarInLA (Reply 8):
dazbo5 – ...yes, I hear ya and I might have accepted IF...they were OK with my processed image...which is what sold them in the first place...but a RAW file..? – ...not a chance...

You could have sent them your processed file. I normally supply jpg's as RAW's are too big to email with my email provider (usually), as are TIFF's. I've sent plenty and had plenty in the UK aviation magazines, it's no big deal as long as the quality is there. As long as they are high quality / resolution, I've never had a problem sending processed jpg's. What's the big deal with a RAW or a jpg anyway? Both can still be processed / manipulated to their needs and more than likely will be. The file you send is unlikely to make it in the magazine without something being done to it. For me, you've missed out on £100, your choice though.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2672 times:

$400-$600 about going rate for Trade publication covers such as Aviation Week if you are a freelance. I have gotten $2,000 each for two issues of A/C flyer, the Corporate Aviation subsidiary of Aviation Week. They are both McGraw Hill companies and have huge circulation. The more reputable the more $$$. Airliners Intl. only offers $40..00 for a cover shot but nice people to work with. Only free up a high rez image with clear communication on its use after the cover. many publications attend trade shows and of course blow up images to mural size without the author of the image being aware of it.     

User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10096 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2671 times:
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Quoting GunnarInLA (Reply 8):
if they insisted on a raw file...they would have had to pay 1200

1200 pounds?? They could have had the RAW image and the camera I shot it on!



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 12):
$400-$600 about going rate for Trade publication covers such as Aviation Week if you are a freelance. I have gotten $2,000 each for two issues of A/C flyer, the Corporate Aviation subsidiary of Aviation Week. They are both McGraw Hill companies and have huge circulation. The more reputable the more $$$. Airliners Intl. only offers $40..00 for a cover shot but nice people to work with. Only free up a high rez image with clear communication on its use after the cover. many publications attend trade shows and of course blow up images to mural size without the author of the image being aware of it.

A few years ago maybe, but not at the moment, in the UK at least. £100 is the standard fee if it's the magazine I'm thinking of. Given the common subject, it's not negotiable. If one person says no to the offer, there's plenty more that will snatch their hand off at that rate.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 14):
there's plenty more that will snatch their hand off at that rate.

Precisely, that is why I walked away from my business...the advent of digital spawned thousands that are content with selling their images for $10.00-$50.00 and commisioned photo shoots for $250.00. Who at the professional level would/could compete with that. Still, here in the US if you had a client base for over the last 10 years, your work can still bring in $300-$1500 for stock images and cover placements.


User currently offlineteopilot From Italy, joined Jul 2010, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Interesting topic, indeed!  

I hope you don't mind if I join the discussion with a little off topic question: recently I was contacted to provide an image to be used on a commercial company's website (for what I have been able to understand, they produce and sell aircraft components).
I am still discussing and trying to reach an agreement about that... but, in your opinion, which would have been a "fair" price in such a case?


User currently offlinedazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 15):
the advent of digital spawned thousands that are content with selling their images for $10.00-$50.00 and commissioned photo shoots for $250.00.

I fully agree with you, but when it's the going rate for a magazine who want a shot that isn't special or rare, you aren't really in a position to negotiate. The days of demands of several hundreds of $$ for shots, unless they are unique, rare or newsworthy are long gone in my experience.

Quoting teopilot (Reply 16):
in your opinion, which would have been a "fair" price in such a case?

It depend on the site (ie hit count) how prominent the photo will be, how rare it is and what they are prepared to pay. $100-200 for something small and common, more for a larger photo or one that is rare. A photo is ultimately worth what someone is willing to pay. It also depends if they want copyright or not.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlineangad84 From India, joined Nov 2012, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2278 times:

How much would you guys suggest for an image sale for calendar use? I just had a request from a defence company with a ca. $1bn annual revenue, and wondering what might be a fair price.

Cheers
Angad


User currently offlinedendrobatid From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1671 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2233 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SCREENER

Angad
I always start by asking them what their standard rate is.
I have been surprised on occasion when I have been offered more than I expected and have then accepted that standard rate.
If their initial offer is not enough, then tell them so and try to negotiate it up.
I never give images away when they are for commercial purposes.

Mick Bajcar


User currently offlineangad84 From India, joined Nov 2012, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 19):
I always start by asking them what their standard rate is.
I have been surprised on occasion when I have been offered more than I expected and have then accepted that standard rate.
If their initial offer is not enough, then tell them so and try to negotiate it up.

Thanks Mick.

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 19):
I never give images away when they are for commercial purposes.

Indeed!

Cheers
Angad


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