Chris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 9 Posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2368 times:
yeah, yeah, i know we have about 10 other topics regarding cops and airports but yet another comes out of ORD i felt i should share with everyone...
(before i start, i'd like to make the observation to those of you people who like to sling the term "racial profiling" around, i am tall, blonde, green eyes, and whiter than that whitest white of a male, so, logically no one bothers me, right??)
Here it is, 25 minutes at 27R at ORD. Thursday, Jan. 24 around 4:45pm. I made my way to probably my favorite spot anywhere in the world. (more due to its sentimental value rather than shooting opportunities, some of you *might* relate to that) it is along bessie coleman road, city property, outside the perimeter.
I did a good job staying pretty much out of eyesight, but 15 min. into spotting, an ORD maintence truck pulls up, friendly guy looks at me and says "yo man, i dudnt think yewz allowed ta do dat around hear, yew best get up and outta here 'fore them cops bust up on ya"
So i said thanks for the advice and i would keep it in mind...
5 minutes later, chicago police car pulls up next to me.
Cop: "hey there, you know you arent allowed to take pictures out here dont ya?"
Me: "well it's not against the law but i understand how it might make people nervous, would it be okay if i stay just for 5 more minutes before the sun goes down?"
Cop: *looks at his watch, raises an eyebrow..* well i suppose, just dont be hanging around here too long"
Here is where it gets interesting....
As i began to leave (the sun had just set and there was nothing on approach) a black malibu comes racing towards me and shreeks to a stop in front of me. The air was chilly, below freezing and my hands where in my pockets.
Immediately two guys in leather jackets jump from the car, the driver yells "Get your hands out of pockets and put em in the air NOW! we are police officers"
so i said nothing and put my hands up while he grabbed me and spun me around, patted me down and asked the typical "any needles or objects in your pockets i'm gonna prick myself on?"
The other officer leaned against that car looking on quietly, smoking a cigarette and staring at me constantly. Pretty soon the first cop tears my backpack off my back and drops it to the ground, (cement) i cringe at the fact my other camera stuff is in there, but said nothing.
He then shoves me in the back toward the car and says "put your hands on the car and spread your feet apart"
As he continues to pat me down, i quietly ask "am i getting arrested?"
"Not yet, just fuckin' relax" He said in such a tone as if i was an asshole creating a scene.
As Cop #1 looks through my things, Cop #2 askes me for my ID and says "what the hell do you need to take pictures for?"
"its a hobby, i enjoy it... i was taking some shots of the sunset... by the way, i do have airport and airline identification in my bag, i am a security coordinator for United" just as i said that, Cop #1 found the ID and both of them relaxed greatly. They asked a few other questions and looked through my things a few more times..
That was it, they gave my stuff back and got in the car and left. They didnt say "goodbye" they didnt say "sorry for the hassle" they didnt even say "we are gonna go get some cheeseburgers at mcdonalds, would you like one?" (i was hungry) They said nothing at all, and left...
People say "they are just doing their job" but what is their job?? I dont mind going through all that because i know i'm right... (and besides, i've been through the drill before, it doesnt make me nervous) but i see the way they act when i flash my airport/airline badge and realize how different the situation might end up being if i didnt have those little cards with me; i really feel for the spotters who dont have airport ID's, which, is most of you.
Anyway, that's my story... i hope you enjoyed it.
OH, and stay away from 27R at ORD, you might run into some trouble
C72 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2204 times:
This kind of stuff is really starting to SUCK!!!! The cops are really pushing the limits now. Might I suggest when able to, when spotting or taking pics try and take someone along with you as a witness, the treatment you got was just wrong. IMO, it's time to stand up for ourselves.
C72 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2187 times:
In response to the prior 2 posts after mine that's why I think if able to, take somebody with you incase you encounter something like this. If you are by yourself you will have a hard time proving what happened to you, especially when there were 2 of them and 1 of you.
Scooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2177 times:
Dude. that's just plain fucked up. I would have lost my cool in that situation and been arrested for sure. If I were you, I would have to follow up on this one. I don't care who they are, nobody can approach me like that and do what they did for no reason. Seriously. Like I said...I'd probably be thrown in jail.
Where the heck is this spot anyway? Are you standing out in the middle of the road or something?
I was at 27L for nearly four hours on Saturday morning, and THREE cops drove up to me and just rolled past. None of them stopped. ORD sure is hit or miss right now...
5280AGL From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 414 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2168 times:
Johnny Cochran Johnny Cochran Johnny Cochran!!!!!
Seriously, if this happened to me, I would have blown up. Which is fine, because if they arrest me (false arrest me), it would just be more ammo for me in a legal case.
Just like anything else, these "cops" will continue to exercise authority out of their bounds until someone confronts them. It must be quite a powertrip for these low-lifes, knowing they can *uck with anyone they want, when they want, and get away with it 99% of the time.
DSMav8r From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2172 times:
I am speechless, Chris... This is one of the reasons why I quit going to ORD 2 years ago. The cops are so corrupt and rude, I decided that it wasn't even worth bothering with. After several years of car searches, verbal confrontations, and license & ID checks, I said screw it!
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
Midway DC9-10 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2146 times:
This is really getting rediculous! I understand what happened on 9/11 and how it affected our country and freedom, however, this treatment isn't justified. There is no reason they couldn't have done this in a more civilized manner.
Chris, were you standing right along the fence of the airport perimeter?
I think these people know about people like us and they don't like us because they think we are strange. They don't understand our hobby, and they really don't care that what makes us happy. They would rather give innocent people a hard time than chase down the real criminals.
I would bet that most of these cops know we aren't doing any thing wrong but they love to use their power and want to scare us. Also, we really have no way to defend ourselves because it is their word against ours.
I know guys who have sat outside doing photography of ORD for 25 years so I know they have seen us before.
Thomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4220 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2134 times:
Man, if this were not so frieghtening it would be comical. This sounds something out of a John Le Carre novel. I am suprised that these 2 KGB 'wannabes' were not sporting long black trenchcoats and speaking with a thick German or East European accent.
You know, I have been advocating for some time now, cooperation with authorities. But your encounter with Daily's boyz has enraged me to no end. I now join the chorus of those saying that it is time to stand up to these bullies with badges.
Jderden777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1762 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2117 times:
i don't know how much longer we can just sit around, getting hassled and taking it in...we gotta do something about it...i personally would've been outraged at this - but i don't think i could come up with a defense as i'm no airline employee...makes me wonder what would happen to those poor unfortunate souls who encounter this situation and don't have an adequate defense...i probably wouldn't be able to stand up to two cops and convince them that i am harmless and such without any other identification other than my driver's license and ymca card...
i really don't know what to say....but i know that these people (cops) are taking things way to far and are stepping out of their bounds when they think it is a matter of 'national security'...the authorities think they can do whatever as long as they do it to protect the rest of the citizens from some odd action...we are clearly in the minority, and we are different. people aren't usually used to having photographers hanging out around airports all the time....people assume the worst nowadays since 9/11...and you know what happens when someone assumes something...
Flpuck6 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2123 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2112 times:
Chris---I feel for ya man. Yer lucky you have the "up" on being a security coordinator. Imagine what might have happened if you weren't? And yes, like the others said, it might have been a good idea to ask for their badges/IDs.
Otherwise, you guys might find the following links interesting. Got them from a fellow correspondant who actually got a response from the FAA regarding spotting. He said the letter was well worded and that the letter ended by saying that the concerns of aviation photographers would be "considered fully". Finally, the letter made references to the links, particulary Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) 107 and 108. Have fun trying to find that law against the photography of airplanes
Serge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
Sorry to hear the man, it must of sucked. You have got to follow up on this one and get their punk-asses suspended.
In the first place, who are the ignorant, closed-minded, wanna-be-good-samaritans in the first place that report us? I really can't imagine how ordinary people could feel threatened by guys or girls taking photos of planes, even if terrorists did take photos of aircraft, what the hell good would it be to them, they could find what they want on sites like a.net in a fraction of the time!
Jeeeeeeeez, some narrow-minded pigs anger the hell out of me, thats right, I won't even refer to them as people!
my 2 cents, don't take offense as I am only badmouthing bad powertripped cops and labeling only their kind as pigs.
AKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2061 times:
A law degree would not do you any good at that moment. If they want to arrest you they do it anyway!
Chris, aren't you tired being harassed by airport cops by now.
Joe Pries started a topic after 9-11 .....it was something like.....guys keep a low profile.....
I know how you guys at the busy airport must feel like, but do you think this is beneficial to the whole bread of spotters?
Chris you probably hit the nail on the head when you said " when I showed them my airport badge and UA ID.....anyway others may not be that lucky after all and end up sitting on the back seat of the black car.......no fun I guess being arrested by those " How did Thomas word it " wannabe KGB Agents with a thick German or East European accent " Not that I have an accent but should I be offended???? Anyway....my point is you guys should go a more constructive approach and really get the badge numbers and send a complaint letter to the airport authority and the local police office, maybe even to the Major of Chicago or your local state representative.....
I know some of you might say...what the heck this is not gonna solve nothing, but my argument against it, don't try don't know.....
Chris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2029 times:
alright guys, thanks for the support. As far as legal action, i might as well go suck an egg because i have no case whatsoever. Names, badge numbers, it's 2 against 1, thats what it boils down to. However, it seems i may have some support coming, a buddy of mine and myself are planning a trip back to that spot, at least i will have a witness....
Unfortunetely i was surfing the web and found this disturbing webpage with myself as one of the features. Interesting, take a look... if it doesnt load just right click, go to properties, and cut and paste the link...
intriguing to say the least...
CHRIS "America's most wanted"
(disclaimer.. that was a joke, i didnt really find that on the net)
CactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2022 times:
You should have told me about that man. I figured you'd get crap for being over there. Tell you what, next time you go to 27R let me know and I'll go out with you. See what those guys say when I flash the ORD badge.
Da fwog From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1998 times:
in response to Vasco's comments about keeping a low profile:
I actually think that the incident with Chris is probably helping rather than doing harm. After all, those two cops are gonna feel like dickheads after going zooming off after Chris and doing the whole "spread-em" routine, only to find out he's a security coordinator. Now, I would not have liked being in that situation at all, especially being a foreign national (albeit from a "friendly" country), but surely these two cops are gonna think twice before they stop the next person. It might not change they way they act, but there's at least going to be a seed of doubt in their minds about who they're dealing with, rather than just assuming he's up to no good.
And after his previous comments, I'm kinda surprised Chris didn't get himself arrested... think I'll hafta go spotting with him while I'm in the US in March - sounds interesting...
: "...i really feel for the spotters who dont have airport ID's, which, is most of you." Why only for those who don't have airport ID's? You should feel
: You already did spot with him You realize that right? Or did I not pick up on the sarcasm? B
: You should feel for all the spotters comunity at this moment. We should not start creating clubs of those who have cards and those who have not. Shees
: "...but then i often give myself way too much credit.... " right Luis
: That was wierd though and they tried to kiss and make up by asking you if you want to go to MickeyD's. At least I had a better time than you did but i
: Alright, this is ridiculous. Luis, I've obviously pissed you off in some way so if you would be so kind as to send me an email then perhaps we can tak
: Chris, Im over at ORD in APril, if your around then maybe we can meet up? I need some excitement Cheers Paul
: Actually Chris, I thought that poster was pretty damn funny. What's up with that guy with half a beard?