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The End Of Airliners.net?  
User currently offlineFUAirliner From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 538 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

Hi everybody,

once airliners.net has been the #1 database for aviation photography on the web. It grew and grew and more and more photographers did not only used airliners.net to display their pics, but also to meet each other in the forums, to enjoy fantastic pics of others, to read excellent articles ...
If an interesting plane appeared, airliners.net was the first to display it to the public. No other website managed to compete with airliners.net.

But as time went by the problems at airliners.net became bigger and bigger:
Because of high loads the server was down or very slow not only at peak times, the increasing standards made more and more photographers leave airliners.net and the growing screening time made other databases have hot new items much earlier than airliners.net.

As a consequence, other databases were able to reduce the gap to airliners.net:
http://www.planepictures.net/http://www.flugzeugbilder.de for example does already has pics of NEOS Boeing 737-800 and SN Brussels Airlines RJ100 online while airliners.net has them still waiting in the queue (like Staffan's SN Brussels Airlines shot). I recognized more and more airliners.net uploaders who began to upload there, too. Why? Obviously they searched for an alternative to airliners.net because they were sick of the long screening times.
Additionally, I noticed something another important fact today: just look at http://www.flugzeugbilder.de and you'll see what I mean. Now even former members of the airliners.net crew leave!

Previously I couldn't understand people who predicted a negative future for airliners.net, but recent events changed my mind.

Something has to be done quickly or this great site will die quicker than you can act! The new server is a good step, but it is doesn't solve all the problems.

Your thoughts, please!


Kind regards,

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy FUAirliner
(Frank Unterspann)


Frank Unterspann - Hamburg, Germany
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

I think it's more growing pains than anything else.

Suggestion to Johan: Can you add a counter somewhere that would indicate the number of photos submitted each day? I'm guessing around 500 or so per day.

Charles


User currently offlineEDIpic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

I thought the cookie enabled frontpage did that for you already Charles?

Anyway, looking at the non-avaition forum, I don't think this site will die, it is as busy as ever. Although I think this site might have to change its name to non-airliners.net
 Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic

Gerry/EDI




....will this thread get deleted?..the other forums are having more fun lately...


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3140 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4797 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I wouldn't jump to conclusions already, let's wait until the server runs properly and more screeners join the team. Until then, a dual a.net/p.net upload strategy works fine for me.

About the a.net crewmember now at p.net, that was a surprise to me as well, but I don't know if he works for both now.

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineJetTrader From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 586 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4774 times:


What people do in their own spare time is entirely their business.

I wasn't aware he was contracted exclusively to a.net.

One thing I do dislike here is the increasing number of popup browser windows I get whenever I open an a.net page...without clicking on any banners! I know this site desperately needs additional funding but to my mind this is a very unwelcome means of achieving it. I'd rather pay Johan out of my own pocket to keep this site running than put up with those bloody ads!

Regards,
Dean



Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

Hi Gerry,

That counter tells you how many photos were added to the database. I was thinking of submission numbers.

Cheers,

Charles


User currently offlineEDIpic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Doh!

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

@FUAairliner:
Your conclusions are right, but I don't think that a.net will die. But what you say about those pictures (like NEON and SN Brussels Airlines) etc. is completely true.

@Jet Trader:
Yes, those pop-ups are also annoying me, but if I have to chose between no pop-ups and no sponsors for this site, I chose directly for the pop-ups!!

Regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

Speculation, that's all.

Luis


User currently offlineCraigy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

Perhaps a "breaking news" category in the upload scripts for new airliners rather than just sending Johan an email, as he must get thousands. That should be easy to get priority screening.
Anyone abusing this category would just have the pic immediately rejected, irrespective of the quality.
This would keep a.net reactive for the new planes/airlines.
Craig.


User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 713 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4662 times:

I'm interested in PlanePictures - I like the focused nature of the site. Hit rate is very low compared to A.net, but clearly this could change.

Can anyone say anything about how the site is run/supported - will it too hit a brick wall when it gets up in the 100Ks of pics?

I'm not looking to jump ship just yet ... it's the quiet season for me ... but come the spring, and (hopefully) delivery of my new D60, I know I'm gonna find the current level of A.net service unacceptable, and I don't think I'll want to spend the time uploading to 2 sites.

We get hints of improvements coming for A.net (new server, recruiting screeners etc.) - and its only fair that Johan gets time to address these issues. But as time goes on I feel A.net is sorely testing the loyalty of its contributors.

I think the time is right for a statement by Johan telling us how (or even if) he sees A.net developing over the next 12 months, with some realistic time scales for introducing new screeners, servers, revenue generation
etc.

A lot of people have invested much time and effort into A.net - it is only reasonable that they want to see some return and security on this investment. Otherwise, you can hardly blame them for looking to invest elsewhere.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

I upload to both sites and dont feel guilty about it at all.

The "other" site the upload service is a lot faster (not as many contributors), image quality standards are lower (more acceptance) and as Colin puts it the site itself is more focused on just images (if thats all you want). Downside is its not as recognised as Airliners and doesnt have as many viewers (if your only motivated by hits then dont apply) but its in its infancy. As to when its as popular as Airliners who can say, but hopefully there be keeping an eye on whats going on over here to avoid the same situations.

Both sites in my opinion can exsist alongside each other. It shouldnt come down to a them and us situation and both sites should help each other to improve, competition is a healthy thing.

Regards

Paul



User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 713 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

Paul - I agree with everything you say, but in my case, I absolutely hate the upload process - there's no way I'll do that more than once! Anyone fancy writing a joint A.net/PlanePics upload program  Smile

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

Colin,

The script at the other place seems to be more optimized certainly is quicker uploading the same file.

As you have commented we need to see how Airliners sorts its self out when the server is okay, im sure things will get back to normal once the hardware is reliable and with the additional screeners.

I really dont think Airliners is dead yet, these sorts of threads do the rounds every so often as we all know.

Regards

Paul


User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

I really like pp.net The uploads are fast and ingo is sound. The site is JUST photos and yes the hits are low but I dont care about hits and to be honest I cant see a pp.net forum being as active as a.net one.

I see both running well together but there are a whole host of a.net photogs which now upload to pp.net a lot.

Its funnu - b4 I got digital it was always a "big thing" to get acceptance on a.net but now I have 300+ on here i aint to bothered

LGW


User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

I see Gary Watt is a 'screener' on pp.net now!

LGW


User currently offlineBogi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

A few weeks ago i answer to a Question here in the Forum if there is any alternative to a.net and guide the guy to p.net.

Soon after i had answer my Post was delete by Johan becuse of "no advertising"

Now im curiously how long this Topic will survie here.

and pleas dont run all over to p.net let a.net survive the forum here are great


Freundliche Grüße / Best Regards / Atentos saludos / Meilleures salutations

Michael Bogensperger
==================================================
Airliners from Europe and all around the World at
http://www.Airlinerslides.com


User currently offline764er From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

I uploaded a pic to pp.net this morning just to see how fast it would be compared to a.net. When I checked my email an hour later when I got to work, the pic was already accepted (by Gary) and up. I'm sure they don't have the volume of uploads, but maybe they will in the future.

I agree with the others who say once the server here starts to behave, everyone will be a little happier. As a photographer and someone who enjoys the pics, I'd rather deal with server problems for a couple of days than have an older server getting overloaded frequently.

Also, I noticed Gary hasn't posted here in 62 days.  Confused


User currently offlineAviationIvi From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 777 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

Today I uploaded 10 pics to pp.net and before uploading no.6, the first 5 were already accepted by Gary!

Yesterday, I have uploaded the first shot of the SWISS ARJ to pp.net and now I have the "problem" that all my shots would be kicked to the back of the queue if I would upload it to a.net. So maybe we should focus on how to get shots like this into the queue without kicking the "standard" shots to the back??? A special button would be helpful and these pics could come into a 2nd queue...

With the old system I could just upload such a brand new picture, but to be honest, I prefer waiting until I get a confirmation email for my old uploads and then upload again (as it is right now). Ok, then the pic will not be interesting anymore, but still better than the 5000+ pictures that used to wait in the queue and the much longer waiting time we used to have.

So, I hope that we can find a solution for this problem. An additional button on the upload page would be the best from my point of view and we could keep the upload system we have right now until we get more screeners...

By the way:
I like both sites and I will keep on uploading to both.

Regards from FRA
Ivica


User currently offlineKingWide From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 838 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

I will be uploading my backlog to pp.net also. Like Colin, I can't see me being bothered to upload them here as well.


J



Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
User currently offlineAdministrator From Sweden, joined May 1999, 3251 posts.
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4571 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
SITE ADMIN

I think competition is a good thing. It can only make us better. Airliners.net has due to it's success, turned into a rather slow machine that's badly in need of more power, both on the human and on the hardware side. I am addressing those issues, a faster server has been installed and about 15 new screeners are being hired as well as 25 new forum moderators and a large number of database standardization editors. You have to understand these things take time though. You would not want me to hire screeners without first selecting them with great care, teach them the admin scripts and then see to that they comply with the standards we've set up. It's a lot of work and takes a lot of time. The last two weeks I've spent 100% of my time trying to solve the hardware problems we've had with the new server so everything has been postponed two weeks. I am sorry to say that the problems have not been solved yet but I hope (and belive) we are much closer to a solution.

If you feel like uploading your photos to other websites, please do, I do not want to stop you. Trust me when I say that other sites, if they ever reach our size, will go through the same growth related problems as we have. I do however want to keep Airliners.net as number one and belive that we will stay numero uno in the future as well considering the changes and new additions to the photo database that we are planning. Let me again point out though that these things take time but that we're working very hard to realize them.

Thanks,
Johan



Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
User currently offlineCkw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 713 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4500 times:

Johan - thanks for taking the time to reply, can I ask you to go one small step further and provide use with some time scales? I understand (only too well!) that server problems are largely beyond your control, however, on the matter of the screeners, I sure it would be much appreciated if you could indicate when you expect these folk to be fully operational. By end of ...?

A positive and realistic statement would certainly go some way to easing the current disquiet.

Cheers,

Colin



Colin K. Work, Pixstel
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 47
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4495 times:

After a downturn, if I can say that way, there will be an up turn again, sooner or later the website will be as popular as before maybe even more. With the additional help being recruited right now and new servers being installed I am sure a.net will easily compete with other websites out there!

It is really unfortunate that the picture processing does take that long right now, I gladly remember those days where pictures had a turn around time of less than 24 hours.

Even that I am sure will be solved soon!

Johan keep up the great work, airliners.net came a long way since I first have visited the site!

btw...competition never hurts

Vasco Garcia


User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

I upload to Airpics and I get my stuff uploaded in a manner of hours somedays. When people want to see what I have taken, I send them there. A.net has a ton of pictures but plane and simple, I would rather upload 5 photos to the other site and get it accepted than submit one here and wait to find out.


At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineDa fwog From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 867 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

I understand entirely the frustration of uploading pics here, and I feel it too. But we are comparing apples with oranges. Looking at PP.net, it has had 1500 visitors today - compared to about 100,000 for A.N. Hardly surprising that it runs faster, uploads get processed more quickly, etc. I would love to see a situation where we could all get our photos processed inside a day or 2 as a matter of course, but with so many visitors, and so many photos being added all the time, it's just not going to happen without both serious hardware and serious manpower being applied to the problem.

Like many things, A.N. is a victim of its own success. Everyone wants to visit and upload their photos here, so there's congestion. We just gotta get on with it, and do whatever we can to help the situation.

Incidentally, I've also uploaded a couple of pics to PP, just to see what sort of response I get. However, no question about it, Airliners.net remains my spiritual home!  Smile


25 Staffan : What about if the current screeners were used to train the new ones, that would at least get that load off Johan?
26 Cliffie : I also believe that competition is a wholesomely thing and the subject is quite overstated. Of course it's not the end of A.net when another site come
27 Sukhoi : Johan and Ingo, Nice to see constructive responses from you both, good to know that its friendly competition. Regards Paul
28 Fallingeese : I'm upload to both sites. I have photographs on both sites at about a 1:5 ratio. For every 1 on Airliners.net I get 5 at planepictures. What gets me t
29 Cliffie : Thanks Paul but I don't understand my post. What means "endorable"? Don't drink and type.. ADORABLE ! And yes, I see it as friendly competition. Ingo
30 EGGD : This is funny you should bring this up. I think that both sites are excellent. Airliners.net is no.1 I feel, Planepictures.net is not as developed, bu
31 Post contains images Apuneger : Well, I've given up the fact of trying to upload pictures at Airliners.Net, but then I've realized that almost every picture I tried to upload is alre
32 Post contains images FUAirliner : ... about 15 new screeners are being hired as well as 25 new forum moderators and a large number of database standardization editors That's great news
33 Skymonster : Airliners.net has given a lot back to the photographers who have contributed to the site over the years, myself included. Without it, I doubt very muc
34 Post contains images Gerardo : I second Andy's opinion. Without Airliners.net I probably wouln't have improved my fotographing skills, and my interest in fotography would not be the
35 Alaskaairlines : I don't think a.net will die. They are just struggling with a few problems. p.net has not yet gotten that big. Just give it a little time. -Dmitry
36 Galilee : Being a primarily non-av poster I have seen several threads like this recently. My thoughts are, I hope none of the forums disappear. I regularly chec
37 Post contains images ExitRow : Airliners.net is a wonderful website. Anyone who has ever been on the backend of a database-driven website will know how buggy and difficult they are
38 Post contains images ExitRow : Actually, I DO hate the carnival monkey "hit the ducks" banner. But only because it stalls the image loading!
39 Post contains images Granite : Hi all Just a quick note to say that I have not jumped ship over to PP.net Ingo has asked for my help on adding pictures as he is soon away on holiday
40 Post contains images Sukhoi : If it was not for Airliners.net I would not have been able to sell 300.00GBP worth of pictures this year so far You told me you gave them away for fre
41 Post contains images JetTrader : Careful Gary...apparently the Inland Revenue are regular readers of this forum! Good to see 'Granite' back in the 'Posted by:' column again. So how w
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