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My Removed AZ Picture  
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4550 times:

Guys,

Because the topic is locked (why?), I start another thread about the removal of my picture.

It is just in one word: ridiculous.

Badmotiv? I don't think so. I prefer shots like these, instead of the usual side shots.

Badpeople? For god sake, it is my sister!

What I want to say first: I look every day in the picture database. To all the new added pictures. And it happens at least one time each two weeks that I do not agree with an added picture. But do you know how I think? Congrats to the one who made the picture, but not 'let's start a topic to piss him off and to get the picture removed'.

It is a schame that the picture was removed! And once again (like always in this kind of topics), the photographers with the most pictures in the database are supporting the removal of the picture of someone else.

You guys are so frustrated in having the most pictures in the database, that other people don't count anymore. If you all would be in my situation, you would be happy that it was accepted. But no, let's spend our time in boycotting others.

In the past days, I got more than 15 mails of people who said that it was a great picture. I got one other mail which I want to share with you.

It was from Robin Banks (I hope you are a forum member):

dude i barely recognized your sister in the daylight.. tell her to check out
www.weightwatchers.com and then get a tan.

anyway, nice picture of the back of a tug... you're lucky you have a nice
camera, it's all you have going for you

RB


Well, is this the way that photographers and enthusiastics talk to eachother?

Taking pictures is still for the fun, uploading to airliners.net is a right, not an obligation.

You all need a life guys!!!

And the biggest dissapointment was that I even didn't get a mail of you Johan, that I had to hear it from someone else that my picture was removed.

I am highly highly dissapointed.

/Frederic


53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWietse From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

I feel sorry for you Frederic... The pic shouldn't have been removed.

Wietse



Wietse de Graaf
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9628 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4441 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I won't speak about the picture being removed, but don't let mean spirited people get you down. Most people in life are mean because they are jealous.

Don't let a couple of jerks ruin your airliners.net experience.


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

I think Johan does not have time to respond....

There is one golden rule on this site:

Play it by Johan's rule or leave. Simple as that.

If he or any screeners does not like the picture, so be it. You have to live with it.

I can feel your anger and pain.......

I personally did not care about the picture at all. Now you can say that another photographer with lot's of pictures on this site is critizing you.

Well I am not!

I am sure you were proud to have the pic on this site and it made your day that is did accumlate quite a few hits!

But ask yourself this.....can't you do better than that?
This is not an attack just a simple question?

Let this one go and go out and capture some other images....with or w/o your sister in the picture!

Vasco G.



User currently offlineTurbotrent From Belgium, joined Jan 2002, 152 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Frederic, I couldn't agree with you more. When I first saw the shot, I thought : nice, A.net seems to accept more and more artistic photo's. And by the number of hits of the pic to see, a lot more people thought it was a nice pic. The pic even stood in the top 10 from 'most popular shots of the last 24 hours'! But then a couple of frustrated guys seemed to disagree with the majority and started a topic to delete the pic from the database for some stupid reasons like bad people. You guys must be very happy!! That's the way to go!! Lets attack other aviation enthusiasts, because it would be a disaster if someone's pic should get more hits then mine. I am really disappointed. It thought that we aviation enthusiasts would stick together a help each other, but clearly I am wrong. It is become a real competition here, and that's a real shame.

Greetz,

Tom



Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge.
User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3032 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Sabvena 690:

I was also surprised to see your picture got removed because of the thread that some ... started. I thought that over here, people would just share experiences with each other, give constructive criticism to each other's pictures, instead of trying to get other men's pictures removed from the database.

As far as I'm concerned, this once more shows us what Airliners.net is heading for. More and more people are getting frustrated that their shots or whatever don't get accepted (or frustrated for whatever reason), so they start ridiculous topics. Airliners.net isn't about aviation enthusiasts anymore nowadays apparently, it's just about those few people that are trying to control everything.

I mean, a couple of years ago, I was really happy with the way things were going over here, but some incidents have really bumped the way I feel about this website.

But, don't let that get you down: upload it to planepictures.net. I'm sure it'll get accepted! And within a week or so, this little incident 'll be forgotten, and you'll have maybe even more great pictures over here, who knows?

anyway, if some of you guys have nothing else to do but to check pictures (that were added after two or three screenings) for bad motives and so, well, then, ...euh...you know what I mean probably!

Ivan

PS: Johan gave a brief comment in the thread that was closed.



Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4379 times:

Thanks for the support guys.

@Turbotrent and Apuneger:
Nice posting you guys made! I couldn't express what I think better.

@Clickhappy:
Yes, this is one of the main problems, jealousy.

@AKE0404AR:

I think Johan does not have time to respond....

Removing a picture only happens a very few times each year, and is very important. Sending a mail is the least you can do.

If he or any screeners does not like the picture, so be it. You have to live with it.

Don't forget that 3 screeners voted for my picture. 3 screeners! And it passed, like Ivan correctly pointed out, 2 screenings. And now it is suddenly removed for badpeople and badmotiv? Something is not right here, be sure of that.

But ask yourself this.....can't you do better than that?
This is not an attack just a simple question?


I have not permission to the tarmac, unless if I take a flight. And when I am in a situation like I was when I boarded my flight, I always try to take some shots which are not like the usual shots.

I found it a very good picture: with the truck of AZ in front of the nose of the MD82 of AZ with both doors opened. I found it a good composition, and so found (some of) the screeners too (at least 3).

Regards,
Frederic
















User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3032 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

Well, according to me, it was a pictures that really showed some of the 'spirit' when you take a flight.

Most of the pictures over here show nothing but aircraft. But I think more pictures should get accepted giving us some thought how it feels like to fly. you know what I mean.

Ivan



Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Sabena 690 and Turbotrent,

You're reading far too much into this... I don't think anyone set out to get your picture removed. The debate started out with a question about how the pic got into the database despite it braking the rules - other people have had pics like that rejected, so why not yours? The debate ended with the removal of the picture. Nothing malicious, just a question about a picture that slipped through the net.

You have two choices now:
1. Forget about it and move on - judging by your other pics, you've got plenty to contribute
2. Take the issue up with the editor in chief directly

I would strongly recommend the former - a single picture just isn't worth getting so steamed up about.

Andy


User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4366 times:


Jealousy? What are you kidding????

You're missing the point. It's not so much that you're shot was bad (it could have been composed better, like for instance not blocking out part of the plane with the tug, but the idea is creative), it's that there are other shots, artistic and otherwise, that get rejected here while others that aren't up to the standards or break the rules seem to find their way on here. Not to say you're pic was low quality but the point is that if something like your pic made it, why do other pics that are arguably better shots continualy get rejected? It's not an attack on you nor is it "jealousy" but rather a call for some kind consistency in the screening. I mean there's quite a few pics on here that leave me scratching my head sometimes as to why they were accepted. And then there are rejections that make you wonder too. I know the screeners are human and have a buttload of pics to go through and they do it for the love of the hobby, but come on now!



User currently offlineAdministrator From Sweden, joined May 1999, 3251 posts.
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4356 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
SITE ADMIN

It was unfortunate that the photo was added in the first place, as you might know such photos are not accepted at Airliners.net. We're an aircraft photo database, not a car or people database.

The thread that was started had nothing to do with it. Those of you that's been around for a while know I put little value in such posts. I noticed the photo early and kept it in the database around a day so that the screeners could have a look and learn from it.

It is again very unfortunate when photos have to be removed from the database and it happens very rarely. I apologize to the photographer and will work together with the screeners to ensure that our procedures for handling these situations improve.

I know some of you would rather see such photos added to the database but it's not Airliners.net material. I'm sure there's other sites out there with different criteria where the photo could be added.

Thanks,
Johan



Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
User currently offlineFUAirliner From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 538 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4343 times:

Can somebody please enlighten me which rules were violated by this picture?

Frederic clearly stated that the woman is his sister and that he has permission to publish it on the internet. So a rejection for "badperson" is not possible.

The other possible rejection reason that was discussed was "badaesthetics". I don't think it is possible to write down rules stating what should be considered as artistic and what should be rejected, so the fate of the picture depends on the screeners' point of views. In this case three screeners considered Frederic's picture as artistic and consequently it was added to the database.

The deletion of the picture by Johan was very surprising for me as there are many other pictures in the database that are far more questionable...

Another fact I noticed in the recent screening discussions: some people think that lower quality standards are applied on artistic shots than on "regular" ones. This is not the case.


Frank



Frank Unterspann - Hamburg, Germany
User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

Is the pic somewhere? I havent seen it. Been on holiday sometime.

Cheers,
Schreiner




Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineTurbotrent From Belgium, joined Jan 2002, 152 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4328 times:

Johan, thanks for your posting. Ok, if that's the way you feel about the pic, then it's your good right to delete it. I respect that. But that's not my point. What really pisses me off is that some people here have no respect for each other. IMO it is not done to start a topic about someone else's photo, and especially not when they say : this picture have to be deleted. And Johan, would you also have this picture deleted when there was no topic about it?
There have been numerous topics about :'this picture is not level' and indeed they weren't, I'm curious to see if those pics are going to be deleted...

Greetz,

Tom



Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge.
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

Johan, one question: why do you accept Sint Maarten pictures? Did you get permission of all the persons and naked women in the picture? Those St Maarten shots are artistic, but are not removed.

Maybe you can start a topic about Sint Maarten pictures, B-OTCH  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic

@Skymonster:
Take the issue up with the editor in chief directly

I sent Johan a mail about this. But I also wanted to discuss this with the people of the previous topic who stated that they wanted a deletion (what also has nothing to do with the original question).

@CactusA319:
It's not so much that you're shot was bad (it could have been composed better, like for instance not blocking out part of the plane with the tug

This is always easy to say if you have the Carabinieri running after you by saying that taking pictures is prohibited. And btw: how could I have composed it in another way? Thanks for additional advice.

otherwise, that get rejected here while others that aren't up to the standards or break the rules seem to find their way on here. Not to say you're pic was low quality but the point is that if something like your pic made it, why do other pics that are arguably better shots continualy get rejected?

Why did my picture get 3 screeners votes, and the others not?

I mean there's quite a few pics on here that leave me scratching my head sometimes as to why they were accepted.

I totally agree. But out of respect for the photographer, I don't start topics than, and I would never ask for a deletion.

@Administrator:

It was unfortunate that the photo was added in the first place, as you might know such photos are not accepted at Airliners.net. We're an aircraft photo database, not a car or people database.

This makes me laugh. Firstly: it got 3 screenersvotes. Secondly: maybe it is time for some variation in the database pictures? But this is only a personal opinion. I know, it is your site, but a little bit variation is always nice.

Those of you that's been around for a while know I put little value in such posts.

I don't understand what you mean here. Can you enlighten yourself a bit here please?

I apologize to the photographer and will work together with the screeners to ensure that our procedures for handling these situations improve.

As far as I know, you are the only one who can remove pictures, right? Well, if you would have been in the place of the photographer, would you appreciate it that you have to read in a mail of a friend that your picture is removed, and not in a mail of the one who removed it?

@FUAairliner:
Thanks mate. This is how I think too about this.

@Schreiner:
No, the picture is nowhere else online. A.net always got priority when I uploaded my pictures, so I did not upload it somewhere else yet.

@Turbotrent:
Thanks again for sharing your interesting point of view with us.

Regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineScooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4299 times:

Johan (Administrator) wrote:
We're an aircraft photo database, not a car or people database.

Huh? But, according to recent uploads, this place must be a hot air ballon and civil aircraft database though. I thought this was airliners.net - that Alitalia shot had more right to be here than any hot air balloon.

This is why I will soon give all my uploads to the "other" site...


User currently offlineB-OTCH From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4287 times:

OK, apparently you haven't read my other posts, but let me repeat myself...

You are taking this too personally. Let it go. You have to have thick skin to upload here. You win some, you lose some. No one is jealous, no one is out to get you.

Your photo is 80% plane and 20% tug. That's just a fact.

Mistakes were made all around, and I agree with Johan, it shouldn't have gotten this far. I applaud Andy for owning up to this. This is how improvements are made.

I just looked through a bunch of SXM "over the beach" shots. Don't see any planes blocked by tugs.  Big grin


User currently offlineWietse From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

You have to have thick skin to upload here

Because of some people you have to, indeed.

Wietse



Wietse de Graaf
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

B-OTCH, I am talking about all who asked for deletion.

And about the SXM pictures: so airliners.net is not a people database and a car database, but well a place for women with naked breast?

With what are we spending our time...

/Frederic


User currently offlineB-OTCH From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

CORRECTION: What I meant to say in my last post was 80% TUG and 20% PLANE. See, I makes 'em with the mistakes as for me. (Actually I just woke up)  Big thumbs up

IMHO, we need MORE photos of naked breasts on here!

Seriously though, I've said everything I have to say...Whats done is done, lets move on...


User currently offlineChris28_17 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1439 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

Sabena 690>>

DUDE!! get a life!! Face the fact that your picture belongs on "www.tugsandsisters.net" not "airliners.net"

Between you and me, let's break this down: how many hours have you spent boiling over this forum in the last two days? how many hours to write those huge posts your making? 2 hours? 3 hours?? 4, maybe 5 hours? 6 hours?? What could you be doing in that time? mowing the grass? doing the laundry? getting off your ass and going out with friends to pick up chicks and be a normal 16-20 year old kid?

seriously dude, there's more to life than this.

B-OTCH, I am talking about all who asked for deletion.

i dont remember anyone asking for deletion, i think everyone just wants to keep the screeners in check. yeah, they have a tough job, but critisism is part of it and if they are the supreme authority when it comes to critisism then they are mature enough to take it when it comes their way. (i think they ARE very mature about it too, my humble compliments)

Quite frankly, it just happend to be your picture.

simple as that

get over it.




Now, in regards to the SXM pictures-- find me an SXM picture with a tug that takes up 80% of the frame and i'll agree it shouldnt be added.

About my boy's SXM pic w/ the topless chick, you can hardly see her!! it adds a setting to the photo, it does not complete or make the entire scene in and of itself.

NO ONE IS BASHING YOUR PICTURE, and i can tell you for DAMN SURE THAT NO ONE is jealous of you. quite honestly your arrogance is pissing me off when at first i felt bad that you were put on the spot so much, now i dont care.

it builds character.

tell your sister i said hi



chris





User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3032 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

OK guys, everybody has made his point. This thread is going nowhere, as are most threads like this one.

I think it's time to chill. It is obviously clear that some people are at their boiling point...why don't we all have a break, go out and just watch aircraft flying over our head, huh? After all, that's the only thing we have in common: our passion for aviation!

Ivan

PS: thanks for Johan for making his point clear over here!



Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

Just to start with: I never understood, why this pic had made it into the database. It wasn't in no way artistic or whatever else. I once spent a few hours with Chris at ZRH and now know, whyt it takes to get some artistic shots  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. Remember, Chris?

But ok, there are many pics, which I can't understand, why they are in the database, and I'm sure, many people will look at some of mine and think the same.

Gerardo




dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

If you email it, I can make it online... and post it here. I would be pleased.


Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

Agree with Johan 100%.

-Dmitry


25 Post contains images Dazed767 : Can somebody please enlighten me which rules were violated by this picture? The tug blocked most of the aircrafts view (and the ramp lice too). I was
26 Post contains images Danny : Frederic, You have my solidarity! It is a shame that some people call for removal of the picture because they don't like it. Johan, what about all the
27 Mirage : It's hard to explain something to someone who doesn't wants to understand. If you at least could make an effort to see there's no logic for that photo
28 Danny : Mirage, I could list here easily 30 photos from the lasy month that we would find reasons for rejection. Does it mean I should do it and call for remo
29 Thomasphoto60 : I personally liked the photo and it is certainly the type of photo that I would have shot had the opportunity presented itself. I do feel that the rem
30 Mirage : "Mirage, I could list here easily 30 photos from the lasy month that we would find reasons for rejection. Does it mean I should do it and call for rem
31 Post contains images Chris28_17 : It's hard to explain something to someone who doesn't wants to understand. If you at least could make an effort to see there's no logic for that photo
32 Post contains links and images CactusA319 : No one actually ASKED to have the picture removed. And there have been times when the quality of a picture and the reason for it being here has been
33 Post contains images Dazed767 : I'd love to see those 30 photos, and yes, I do have the time. It is a shame that some people call for removal of the picture because they don't like i
34 Post contains links and images Chris28_17 : View Large View MediumPhoto © James Fullworth Hmmm... actually that VW might be an aircraft.... it has a rudder, and wings, it's even chocked...
35 Post contains images Jwenting : Just to play devil's advocate with some pictures from St Maarten that would have been rejected for "aircraft too far in the distance", "people in the
36 Skymonster : Jwenting, some pictures from St Maarten that would have been rejected if taken almost anywhere else But that's exactly the point... They're not taken
37 Post contains images EBOS : JTwenting What's the point? Do you want these ones rejected for 'aircraft to far in the distance' or 'not centered'?...
38 Post contains links AKE0404AR : I think SXM pictures are still special, they take up a small percentage of the whole a.net database. I am pretty certain if pictures from SXM become a
39 Administrator : As always, these discussions turn into valueless drivel and I'm forced to repeat myself over and over. >Johan, one question: why do you accept Sint Ma
40 FUAirliner : "That's your view Frank and you're entitled to it but don't come here and pretend it's the objective truth cause it isn't. There's no such thing. You
41 Jwenting : EBOS, you obviously didn't get it. I pulled those pictures as examples of things that should have been rejected if the standards were indeed applied e
42 Mirage : What's your point Joge? Airliners.net is one website and Justplanes is another completely different website, each one with different concepts, why tha
43 Post contains images Joge : Never mind, Luis. My point was, it's not just black and white, there are also those grey areas. I just wonder, if that photo would have been left to t
44 Post contains images Mirage : ah! yes that winner photo was very grey. I must convince some girls here to pose for me in front of some aircraft engine. But then it would not be an
45 Chris28_17 : As i mentioned in the other post (or was it this one? i forget) that justplanes contest was a joke. That picture never should have won. oh well chris
46 Post contains links and images Danny : A celebrities photo website? View Large View MediumPhoto © Brian Stevenson - SPOT THIS!
47 Post contains images Apuneger : OK, but that last pictures should've been on www.girlonbeachinbikinistaringatanaircraftonfinals.net instead of www.airliners.net Ivan
48 Flyer732 : The SXM pic in question is completly different than the AZ picture though. The girl is not blocking any portion of the aircraft, the entire aircraft i
49 AKE0404AR : Ryan, come on dude.....just be real! Even though it is SXM, the plane is hardly visible in the top right corner......... You cannot see her face, but
50 Post contains images Danny : To be clear - I love the pic with the girl. But thiis is excellent example that sometimes it is worth to upload pic that does not meet normal A.net st
51 Skymonster : I'd been waiting to see whether the pic with the girl in appeared on the database. I second screened it (it already had one HQ) and marked it HQ BEFOR
52 Post contains images NonRevKing : LOL....I knew it! I've kinda been monitoring this post as a lot of my friends have been replying to it. God, I've been working on that pic for so long
53 CactusA319 : So Vasco, you're saying that butt shots should be labled badpeople? The plane is off in the distance but you can see it completely. It's not like the
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