Scooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 822 posts, RR: 2 Posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3012 times:
Okay, I'm sick of the limitations of my Sony F707, and I'm ready to play with the big boys - I'm gonna bite the big one and get a DSLR.
As I don't have anything ialready invested (in terms of lenses), I've narrowed it down between the D60 and D100. Nobody has to sell me on the D60 - there is nothing about this camera I don't like. However, the D100 is $200 cheaper, and is in stock at many places. BUT - I'm almost afraid to admit that I'm not overly impressed with what I've seen from the D100. I can't explain it, but from what I've seen on this site, it just doesn't have the ability to create those "creamy smooth" images the D60 can. Let me just clarify that these comments are based soley on images I've seen on this site - I haven't had the chance to play with either in real life, so I could have my head up my ass and not know it.
My biggest concern is the 'oversharpened' look I see in nearly every D100 image - colors seem to be spot on, as does dynamic range.
So, here's your chance to plug yourselves silly - let's see some D100 images! Better yet, can somebody hook me up with an aviation-related image or two straight from your camera (un-edited)?
Thanks guys...at this point, I've got the cash in hand for the D60. But before I throw that down, I want to make sure that I didn't dismiss the Nikon too quickly.
Nscaler From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 243 posts, RR: 6 Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2950 times:
Well I haven't shot any airliners with the D100, but here is some other news and sports images that I have shot it with. All images on the page are shot with the D100:
You must remember that the lenses used make a difference. Try to only use high quality lenses.
One other thing to consider is that the D100 can go up to the equivalent of ISO 6400 (1600 looks great, 3200 decent), while the D60 only up to ISO 1000. May not be that important for airliners, but makes a world of difference for other applications.
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9307 posts, RR: 76 Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2936 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD SCREENER
if you see something oversharpened out of a D100 it is due to aggresive USM in Photoshop. The biggest complaint about the D100 while shooting JPEGS is the softness the camera creates. Shotting in uncompressed NEF gets rid of this problem.
Both cameras are top notch.
This is an untouched image. Shot in JPEG, with sharpening on Auto. You can always turn sharpening off.
Scooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 822 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2934 times:
Sam Chui's latest uploads are with a D100
Yea, I had a look at those last night - while his images are really nice, I was a little turned off by the jagged edges on most of his pics. I've yet to see airliner shots with the D100 that didn't do this.
You must remember that the lenses used make a difference. Try to only use high quality lenses.
Oh yes - i figure if I'm going to spend 2k on a camera body, I might as well buy a professional lens for it. I'm not sure what I'm going to get yet, but it's going to be top of the line! Thanks for the link, BTW. Good stuff in there...
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 58 Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2924 times:
200mm plus 2x converter (640mm) plus good sized crop -not D100 though.
Mikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 59 Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2859 times:
Scooter,
How the digital shots are processed (photoshop) have a great deal to do with final quality that you see here on a.net. Plus, seems like a few of the D100 shooters are doing .jpg's and not raw's so that also is a factor.
Do yourself a favor, when deciding between the D100/D60 search the web (for true test shots not reviews) or see if your local shop would be willing to give you a loaner for testing.
From what I have seen (non a.net photos) the D100's images are just amazing. And I've seen them first hand as we do a lot of that sort of stuff (tests/reviews) where I'm employed. (Some of you know where I work)
The D60 is nice too but be forewarned, get ready for a lot of abuse from the Nikon guys after your purchase. The Canon guys have been getting creamed lately.... bwhahahaha
Tonimr From Spain, joined Jan 2001, 324 posts, RR: 30 Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2847 times:
Scott
Let me add several important points:
I'm sure you know it, but have in mind that A.net are processed images. You can't judge the camera output for what we upload here, in fact some complaints from the D100 say its images are soft, and now your concern is that they are oversharpened.
A digital camera is not only resolution and sharpness. Color accuracy is an important point: The D100 has a wider gamut (even in RGB mode). White balance? I'm beginning to see many oak, yellow and green fuselages in airliners that three years ago were simply white, don't make me say the DSLR camera brand.
Buy the camera you prefer! My equipment and results satisfaction rates are not directly (or inversely) proportional to the number of Nikon users, and I don't get vouchers for photo material with every newcomer to the system, though I believe that -jokes apart- not every photographer here does the same. This statement can be applied also to Canon users!
Whatever you choose, switch to a DSLR soon, you'll enjoy a lot!
Toni
There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
N178UA From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1565 posts, RR: 73 Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2791 times:
Hello,
First appologize not to head up replying this.
But since I uploaded a few from Narita Tokyo trip using digital. I received quite large amount of emails regarding using D100 and its abilities.
In my opinion, the D100 is an absoluty fantastic and amazing camera! No way it is inferior to Fuji S2 and D60Canon really. Being a Nikon user for long do make this comment little biased I suppose.
Here are a few shots I have been very very happy about
I have yet to explore the setting of the camera (most on default color/balance...) I have seen shots are slightly underexposed on raw untouched up image. But I saw someone's S2 shot on A.net here the tone seems bit too srrong and color are too dense from what I see in digital shots. (almost like the greatness of Velvia slide film!!
I tried a D60 for 1 day lease, I cannot really tell that much a difference between D100 and D60, really I saw Dpreview, but as much as I concerned here (I am mostly using it shoot planes) I don't have any problem of D100.
I was using a Nikon F5 (and still shooting loads of slides with it). If you are previously using a F5, really there is quite a bit of downgrading on performance when using D100. i.e. reduced shooting fps, slower focusing,....etc.
I realize most people here gone to D60 Canon, however I think one reason is that, most people using Canon system shoot prints before, so straight easy jump over to D60. However you don't see most people using D100 here yet may be because of most Nikon (as far as I know the F5, F100 user) are still happily shooting slides. This may explain the difference in DB, so many D60 shots and so few D100 shots. It really doesn't mean D100 is bad at all!
In fact it is my best buy for years! But the choice is always yours
I always tend to be oversharpen little bit, I just think they may get rejected if not to be. Check the original version and play around see if youre ok!
I don't actually find the original version to be oversharpen, it is just me to over done it as a pratice and bad habit!
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 58 Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2759 times:
ok i'll play along. Here is a straight raw from D60 with absolutely nothing done to it- just downsized from 38mb TIFF to a JPG.
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 58 Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2747 times:
Scott- lets talk common sense pal:
D60, out almost a year now- still a huge line to get one as they fly off retailers shelves before they reach the shelves.
D100? you can go to many retailers right now and pick em up, they are sitting on the shelves.
you're a grown man, make of that what you will, though you've already made up your mind anyway. The wait is well worth it, believe me.
Vaman From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 328 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2730 times:
I was so sure that I was not going to get a cannon. I mean 100%. Then i woke up one day and said, what am i thinking.
usm glass cheaper and as good as or better than af-s.
tele con's cheaper.
silky cmos.
those eccentric white lenses.
1/200 flash sync
fast processing
3 fps
flash's are affordable
the body is much sleaker.
I mean c'mon. I went from hating canon to lusting for a D60 in about 24 hours.
Carlos Borda From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 538 posts, RR: 55 Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2721 times:
The only way to do a *true* test is to take the same exact RAW shot with all three DSLR's (D100,D60,S2) next to each other using equivalent type lenses. Because so far from what I've seen on here every photog has their own way of processing their DSLR images.... even with the same type camera taking the same type shot side by side, the results of both are quite different. See below....
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 58 Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2718 times:
You nikok guys just dont give up- cairless, i gave you what you wanted- not a final version dumbed down by mass manipulation done by 2 different guys, but a full, raw totally untouched image (co 737-700 at 640mm). Do you see why the more you write the more you bury your cause? McLaughlin is so embarassed now he's not even responding anymore- who can blame the guy?
Carlos Borda From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 538 posts, RR: 55 Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2707 times:
No offence Yev... but I think the colors on Tom's shot look better and brighter. But your shot does seem much sharper. If I had to decide on just those two shots which camera to go with... then It would have to be the D30. But again... I know that evey photog processes their images different than the next guy.
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 58 Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2711 times:
Carlos, listen to what mike wrote earlier- do not judge any shots that are post-processed, go with the raw, i gave you one- go knock that one, im ready to defend it
N178UA From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1565 posts, RR: 73 Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2693 times:
I forgot to add one thing is that no matter what D100 or D60 or S2 you have, having a shitty lense is not going to work 'great' (but it may) I have seen some fairly unimpressive shots out of using cheap lens, the f2.8 lens is still the best fit. Also the photographer mentality is important . SAM
Mikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 59 Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2714 times:
Yes Joe, I'm very embarassed...but for Canon users. You guys are so proud that it's very hard to get the D60 and think that is a good thing? Boy you guys are so foolish. There isn't a shortage of D60s because they are flying off the shelf, it's because Canon screwed up in production and can only put out so many a month. On the other hand, Nikon D100's are selling like hot cakes and Nikon is professional enough to keep up with demand.
usm glass cheaper and as good as or better than af-s.
You said it, usm/canon glass is cheaper but you're wrong when
you say it's better/as good as af-s. Wrong. Most Nikon AF lenses
(non AFS) are quicker (faster AF) then most Canon USM lenses.
Don't be fool...it's been proven.
tele con's cheaper.
Again, you're right. Canon has a shitload of cheap lenses and only a handfull of good (L). Yes, the L's are nice but most everything else is cheap consumer products.
those eccentric white lenses.
Well, Nikon has light-grey but it's only to please the Canon guys that switched over to Nikon when they wanted pro gear.
fast processing
Just make sure you have firmware 11.0
3 fps
So does the D100? But the D100 does true 3fps because the focusing is much quicker and doesn't lock-up.
flash's are affordable
The cheap ones, yes.
the body is much sleaker
Yes, plastic is sleaker but certainly cheap looking. Not sure if you should really be proud of that?
Carlos Borda From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 538 posts, RR: 55 Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2672 times:
Ok since you insist... I went and looked at it again and I think it's very soft, dark and has a bluish overall cast to it. And also if I remember correctly, Conti's color scheme is mostly "bright white", not beige or off-white or whatever white-like-color it is in that raw shot. The sky is cloudless in your shot, it wasn't a hazy day and I know the bright morning sun is right behind you so the excuse can't be that the weather was bad. And I know it's a raw, but the white still looks rather dull to me personally.... that's my opinion of the shot. Sam's and Royal's raw shots don't have dark, bluish tint and/or weird white-like colors like I see with yours... and those guys are still just toying around with the settings since they just recently purchased them. You've been shooting DSLR for some time now....
So far I love the warmer "true-to-life" colors the D100 produces over the D60 which I think produces a bit more exaggerated non-life-like kind of colors. That's just my *personal* taste... I'm not knocking it.
Both camera's (and also the S2) are mighty fine machines no question about it... so it all just really comes down to personally what one likes best they squeeze the trigger and see the end result.
To me... all this DSLR talk is very educational and absorbing, because I'm still shooting slides.
I've learned a lot about DSLR on here thus far and still have much more to learn. But I confident that when I do buy a DSLR (soon enough) I'll make the right choice.... and it definitely won't be a canon D60.
After seeing some of the nice early results and good feedback from AirNikon, Toni, Royal and Sam... looks like the D100 might just be the choice for me. Why? Because for me... this camera will have to serve other non-aviation everyday all around photo (family) purposes too, and it's in that regard where I think the D100 edges out the D60. Even your complaining that indoor evening shooting is difficult with the D60 and you even mentioned to me that you can't wait till canon comes out with something better... to me that's just unacceptable for paying 2K...
~Los
Joe writes:
>>Carlos, listen to what mike wrote earlier- do not judge any shots that are post-processed, go with the raw, i gave you one- go knock that one, im ready to defend it<<
AKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2533 posts, RR: 53 Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2645 times:
25 Vaman: Joe. Help me out here. Is there truth to what mike photos said. Say it aint so bad as he his trying to make it. Say it aint so. L
26 OH-LZA: Logan, Everybody here recommends the camera what they have, don't let people confuse you with their subjective opinions. Just try them out in a shop o
27 Joe pries: Scooter, more D60 action for you, still waiting for all the D100 guys to show us the money, so far they are bashing my CO737 shot pretty good though-
28 Joe pries: Sam, will you get mad at me if i tell you your original out of your D100 does not appeal to me at all? -I can only give you my honest opinion as you p
29 Joe pries: Sam says: I realize most people here gone to D60 Canon, however I think one reason is that, most people using Canon system shoot prints before, so str
30 Jan Mogren: Eh, well .. you lost me there.. /JM
31 N178UA: Joe No, don't worry I am not mad at all, infact I realize the Thai nose shot I put up there is NOT a very good shot generally to represent and I have
32 EGGD: Joe - whats with those jaggies on the numberplate?
33 N178UA: Well here I give my last shots try of D100 although I am very well aware even the best image will not alter Joe's thinking toward D100 But I do enjoy
34 Joe pries: Sam, if theres one thing in all this is that I too am enjoying this circus, its fun for us all and makes interesting reading fodder for the other folk
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