Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 54 Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1888 times:
while it is not an action shot, nor is it with 2x converter, i must say Royal that your nef-jpg shot from the D100 is the best out of the camera output i've seen yet from anyone on these threads. It is quite good. My only problem is that your straight from the camera jpg is certainly lacking in the sharpness dept- granted, a good dslr raw/nef should look like your nef-jpg shot (slightly soft), not the straight jpg shot. This leads me to believe that there is a problem perhaps with your camera? not to belabor the D60 whichi ofcourse I tend to do, but when I shoot in raw or jpg fine, both outputs are exactly, I mean exactly alike. Perhaps our resident d100 gangsters maclaughlin or boreda can weigh in on this. I continue to believe that this ongoing dslr discussion is extremely beneficial to many folks here.
to quote: There is a noticeable difference in sharpness between JPEG Fine and RAW, the PC based RAW conversion software has much more processing power available and does appear to apply slightly more sharpening to the image before output (default settings were used to convert the RAW image).
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 54 Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1864 times:
Mike, its a personal preference, I know Andy Hunt shoots in jpg only. Like I told him, to me, thats photographic suicide, but Switzerland, like the U.S. is a free country and you can shoot in whatever mode your little heart desires
LGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1856 times:
" but Switzerland, like the U.S. is a free country " - Correct Joe - free, shame UK is only half free being that we seemed to be ruled more by the EU than our own government!
Anyway, back to the topic, I shoot only in jpeg fine on my DSLR because I need the CF space! I dont find any problems with shooting jpeg so far I will give RAW a try soon but you loose so much space on those CF cards!
Ouch! I thought the D30/60's where meant to be soft but that jpeg D100 shot is as soft as a marshmallow!
Is that the standard D100 jpeg sharpeness? If so then Joe has NOTHING to worry about, when he says the D60 is best
Mikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 55 Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1848 times:
A couple of definition questions. I assume "raw" is a TIFF file. Correct or not?
If I'm correct, RAW is not a tiff file. RAW is what the acutal sensors sees/records (untouched) and needs to be converted to a tiff/jpg/etc.
Wouldn't you (not direct at you Andy, more like everybody) want the best quality image possible and later reducing to whatever you need rather than taking a lower quality (while still very good) original?
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 54 Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1848 times:
Gentlemen, a most interesting discussion...
Canon RAW: roughly 6.5MB
when you take that RAW and convert to 16 bit TIFF, it becomes a 38MB file.
Technically, a RAW is not a TIFF, it is rather a compressed TIFF and as Colin has said in the past, permits you up or down a full 2 stops- thats TWO stops which is tremendous latitude which only a RAW offers in 16bit mode- something no jpg can give you, hence when I say that by shooting jpg you are committing photographic suicide.
Ben, get a 1gig microdrive and you can fit plenty of RAW's in there
Like I always say- I didnt just spend almost 4 thousand dollars to shoot jpg....
Wietse From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 56 Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1843 times:
I do plan to shoot in RAW, and for the reason you said.. Michael. No compromise in the beginning.. It may be the worst mistake you ever made... What if you need the best possible quality or what when those 2 stops are exactly what you need to save the pic.
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 54 Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1843 times:
Andy wrote: How big is a raw file on the D60. For an S1 the highest setting is: Hi(RGB) Image size 3040X2016 and the file size is about 16MB.
Andy, thinking about this some more- the D60 produces an image similar to your 3040 wide, but with a bit more than twice the MB at 16bit. What does Don's wonder machine do, I think its like 4000 wide with like 50mb in 16bit.
AAGOLD From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 545 posts, RR: 51 Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1843 times:
The D100 with an IBM 1GB microdrive gets 107 pictures in RAW format. TIF RGB image quality large 59 pictures. JPEG Fine Large 318 pictures. I fill the 1GB microdrive, plug it into the PC to download and have several CF cards to carry me over until it downloads. So far I've only shot RAW, no JPEGs to send as samples.
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 54 Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 weeks ago) and read 1841 times:
Mike goes to show you how interested people are in this, there are still alot of prospective dslr buyers here reading these words (including you and cairless, mike) and they are very very interested in output, thats why again, i'm very dissapointed that more folks are not showing off what their cameras can produce in order to help others make decisions. We've seen the DAS DC10 and Royal's offerings- we would like to see more.
Andyhunt From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1302 posts, RR: 53 Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1836 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
So guys, (agreed very interesting discussion, the learning curve gets steeper!)
TIFF is better than RAW...as RAW is a compressed TIFF file? This is slightly confusing.
Joe: WHat exactly is my disadvantage with jpg? The photos look fine, they print fine, the magazines accept them fine. Agreed, RAW/TIFF is better, no question, but is it like comparing a BMW (RAW) with a Mercedes (jpg) or a BMW with a Subaru???
Carlos Borda From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 538 posts, RR: 52 Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1832 times:
How come my name keeps getting involved in this?? I'm not a DSLR shooter... just a future prospective buyer of one also.
>>Mike goes to show you how interested people are in this, there are still alot of prospective dslr buyers here reading these words (including you and cairless, mike) and they are very very interested in output, thats why again, i'm very dissapointed that more folks are not showing off what their cameras can produce in order to help others make decisions. We've seen the DAS DC10 and Royal's offerings- we would like to see more.
Mikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 55 Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1831 times:
RAW is not a compressed TIFF as joe mentioned. RAW is just that, a RAW capture of the sensor, untouched. Anything other than a RAW requires the camera to "work on" the image to convert it to TIFF/JPG. With RAW, you have the power to "work on" it yourself.
25 Andyhunt: Then it looks like the S1 has no raw mode. Methinks.................. Andrew
26 Mikephotos: Yes, Joe people are very interested. But unless you have a fair test it's tough to view examples from a.net users to base your final purchase on. I kn
27 Joe pries: Carlos- because you are very strongly opinionated, frequently making comments about dslr output quality and hence that makes you involved. Andy- a TIF
28 Andyhunt: OK, Joe, Mike et al, Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. Ok back to some screening, time to reject all of your photos Andrew
29 Joe pries: I disagree Mike, I think alot of people have already made up their minds by seeing some of the output in this thread- whether you want to believe that
30 Mikephotos: Well, if it's true Joe then they are fools of it's based only on photos viewed at a.net. Yes, i said fool because if you are going to buy a $2000 DSLR
31 Clickhappy: sorry, I actually had to do some work! Microdrives are sketchy. I don't know that I trust them. It would suck to loose that many shots all in one "ban
32 Joe pries: Mike i think you're dead wrong. People here who are about to buy a dslr are far from fools by seeing whats being offered on ainet- especially out of t
33 Mikephotos: Joe, then you are truly a fool if you believe that. I know you don't. Show me one person who said "I purchased a D60 based ONLY on the few pics I saw
34 Andyhunt: Joe: I think Mike was more alluding to people making their own opinions based on testing the camera themselves. And why is the Japanese person obscure
35 Mikephotos: Andy, don't worry about Joe. He's just blowing smoke to get me (us) worked up. I just like to keep it going for a while but EVERYONE knows that only a
36 Joe pries: Andy, you are not 100% but 1000% right- maybe it was canon sponsored- youve proven my point- that you trust shots from every day people, shooting the
37 Carlos Borda: Joe you seem to think that everyone else out there lives on their PC's and reads the forums at a minute by minute pace every single day, day after day
38 Andyhunt: Conclusion: You're both right. A win / win scenario. perfect. Now we just need you two to agree! Andrew
39 Mikephotos: Ok, Joe so lets say you are in the market for a new D60 (you don't have one right now) You come to a.net for your idea of a review/test. You see these
40 Joe pries: Mike this is why i put up that CO737 shot- for you to see what the D60 can do in tough conditions- 2x converter, full 640mm. If the camera can handle
41 Mikephotos: What does it show? It shows me that the D60, D100 and S2 raws look so similar that to me in the end my purchase decision would be based on aspects oth
42 Joe pries: You're 100% right Mike, the CO737, DAS DC10 and the Thai 777 nose- they all look exactly alike. I need new glasses I guess.
43 Mikephotos: tough conditions? joe...please, it was sunny, clear and the temp was nice. lets get real, that was far from tough conditions. lets see blizzard shots
44 Mikephotos: You're 100% right Mike, the CO737, DAS DC10 and the Thai 777 nose- they all look exactly alike. I need new glasses I guess. I see you left out the BA
45 AAGOLD: OK, Joe, here's one to tear apart. Shot yesterday. Sorry it's not full bore, but it's from NET to TIF to JPEG and not post processing. The details ...
46 Joe pries: I think this shot is quite good Art, best "out of the camera" D100 ive seen so far on this thread- though I still think that if you examine your 757 w
47 Mikephotos: Art, THANK YOU BUDDY! Goes to show, the D100 is very much up to par. GREAT SHOT!!! and yes, I actually think it's better than the CO 737 shot. But aga
48 Carlos Borda: That one looks great Art... great job! And your shot is in exactly the same spot that Joe took his beige CO 737 shot from. Only difference is that yes
49 Joe pries: Mike while its good, its far from CMOS smoothness- not even close in that regard- go look at the CO737 again, like medium format.
50 Sukhoi: How many threads on the same subject? Andy no RAW on the S1 you need to get an S2, oh I forgot there crap oh and so is the S1 but you know that alread
51 AAGOLD: Joe, I'm not a hundred percent sure I'd call your shot of the 737 smoother. I think it has a little deeper color (look at the gold strip along the fus
52 Joe pries: Art, while you have presented us with the best image so far, still I have no regrets about my D60, I still very firmly believe that the CMOS chip is t
53 Mikephotos: Not depressed Joe just very disappointed that none of the D100 users posted the true quality behind the D100. It's nothing against them, they've only
54 AAGOLD: Joe, I didn't expect to change your opinion about your D60. That's the furthest thing from my mind. Personally you've taken some of the most spectacul
55 Carlos Borda: This is really the best way to slug this out.... Art, Joe and Don all very well experienced photogs side by side @ FLL in January taking the same exac
56 Db777: For those of you interested in RAW and TIF sizes, the S2 produces RAWs sized at 4256 by 2848 that are 12.4MB in size. I can get 79 or 80 of them onto
57 Tonimr: First, answering to Royal: I shot RAW whenever I can: 108 RAW photos in a 1GB Microdrive for a day out is more than enough for a normal day at my loca
58 Planephoto: Royal... have you compared the color modes (Color I (sRGB), Color II etc). Just wondering if you see any color quality difference in the 3 modes? I ca
59 JeffM: Scott, I can see the difference in Color II. That's what I used strright out of the box, until I read the manual. Color II is an Adobe color space pro
60 Clickhappy: good read: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond100/page11.asp Color modes: I, II & III Here's how the D100's manual describes each color mode: I - (