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Heavy Copyright Infringement! ("Blick")  
User currently offlineEduard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Hi all

Propfreak made me aware that in the today's number of "Blick" (Swiss newspaper with more than 300'000 copies daily) my photo of the Iraqi B727 got published on page 3 (size rather small: 3 x 8 cm):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Marmet



- I have not been asked for permission
- absolutely no credit given
- .... and of course no money.

Of course I will write to Blick to draw their attention to the copyright infringement. But which rights I have really?
How far shall I go ?
Any advice and comments are welcome. Thanks a lot.

Eduard

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9607 posts, RR: 69
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3893 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

How far should you go? Well, you are in the drivers seat, really. You can get a lot more from the shot now that it is published then if they had contacted you with an offer for usage.

It is a rare shot, plus they stole it from you. How about 500 euros as a place to start...


User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

Page 3? Doesn't look like the page 3 pictures we get here in the UK Big grin

LGW


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3824 times:

Eduard,

My opinion only

They are a commercial entity, they stole your image. Go the whole way. Find an address and send them an eMail/letter. Ensure they are fully aware that a copyright has been breached. Enclose an invoice (I always invoice for $500US when that happens to me). Sometimes I get lucky and they pay up, other times they don't.

Good luck.

My suggestion to everyone is not to let news agencies get away with copyright infringement. After all, it's not like they'd let you do it if the situation was reversed!





ADG


User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3812 times:

That is good advice from ADG. I agree.
/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5490 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

I think Gary Watt had a similar problem awhile back, and was rewarded handsomely. Haven't heard much from Mr. Watt since then, I hear he's livin it up in the French alps now  Big grin

User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3689 times:

Drive them man! I would think $500 is not enough....charge them more. But thats just my opinion.

-Dmitry


User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5293 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

I am no expert but I'd try a lot higher than $500 (Sfr 750). Multiply by 2 or 3, you can always come down later. After all, this is the Blick.

Jeremiah



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

Well, congratulations on getting your picture published! Big grin I agree with Teahan, but I would start out asking for $1500-$2000 considering that this is a major publication/newspaper. I dont know what the laws are like in Switzerland, but you should infer that you are willing to bring legal action against the publisher if you are not sufficiently rewarded monetarily.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineCarlos Borda From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 538 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

I can see it now... Gary skiing down the slopes in his Braveheart kilt.  Big grin

~Los

Justin writes:

>>I think Gary Watt had a similar problem awhile back, and was rewarded handsomely. Haven't heard much from Mr. Watt since then, I hear he's livin it up in the French alps now<<


User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11951 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

LGW, "Page 3? Doesn't look like the page 3 pictures we get here in the UK "

Nope, the birds there have larger...erm.. engines.  Big grin

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineEduard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3621 times:

Thanks a lot for your opinions. Yesterday evening I wrote a rather severe letter to them with threat of legal actions. I will keep you informed as soon as I have some news.

Usually I am very fair with requests for private use or even for small publications issued by individuals, but this one ... I cannot accept that!

Regards
Eduard

P.S. I am not a regular "Blick"-reader, but the well known "page-3-picture" was in this issue on page 9.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



User currently offlineAviator100 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2000, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3616 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Eduard,

For the publication of a picture with a diagonal size less than 13 cm and a max. size of approx. 8x10 cm in a newspaper with a print run of 300.000 to 500.000 the Dutch Photographers Federation recommends a minimal prize of € 127 excl. VAT.
Since Blick used the picture without your permission you can charge them a lot more, in my opinion. They must have been aware that they were infringing your copyright. Copyright rules are usually well known in the offices of a big newspaper!

Regards,
Ad


User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Eduard
Just sue them ...! I don't like Blick anyway ... But most Swiss Magazine don't know a lot about Aviation in general and it seems they don't know a lot about Copyright issues as well. Actually very sad ...



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineEduard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

I had just got an E-Mail from them: They offers me CHF 300.00 (=about EUR 200.00). What do you think, shall I accept ?

kind regards
Eduard



User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

In a word, NO !!

Don't take such a puny settlement, they've got deep pockets.

I've sold this photo for $500.00 before with permission, and your
shot is MUCH rarer than mine......

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=13461


Good luck!


Jay


User currently offlineFritzi From United Arab Emirates, joined Jun 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

Tell them to add another zero to that sum or otherwise they could expect some legal action. That ought to get their butts moving

User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

Eduard,

Personally I would accept that amount in good faith. You may get more if you stick to it or you may get nothing. Remember, the last thing you want to do is end up pursuing them in court. It's one thing to *threaten* legal action, but quite another to pay the lawyers fees.

But again, this decision is yours alone to make. If you asked for more then they shouldnt' have offered you less, if you want to ask for more you may try an eMail saying "legal advice indicates a fee of $.... is appropriate ....".

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. We can't even get the skanky polish press to respond to us at all, let alone pay for the image they stole!





ADG


User currently offlineRindt From Germany, joined May 2000, 930 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

ADG,

There's is absolutely no good faith here... you've completely missed the point.


Eduard,

$200Euros for such a shot is an insult. You tell them that - and don't forget, while some legal ($$) recourse on your part may be necessary, they're going to have pay legal fees also - and it's clear they would lose. They're just low-balling you to see if you're a sucker, because many would take the bait. Dangle $5000EU in front of their face, and don't be shy about it - this is YOUR picture they clearly stole.
I STRONGLY urge you to not take the pityful amount they are offering.

-Rob



What other people think of you is none of your business!
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5293 posts, RR: 61
Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3288 times:

Absolutely ridiculous. Definitely ask for another 0 on that. This is 300,000 copies we are talking about, not some 10,000 copy magazine/regional newspaper.

Jeremiah



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

Keep going...ask for more man...thats definitely not enough!!!!!

Good luck!

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlinePropfreak From Switzerland, joined Mar 2000, 157 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (11 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

hi there
I have a friend working in publicity and he states that you should get at least 2000 CHF (~€1300) - also because you didn't get any credit and it was in color too.
don't throw away your work - it's the biggest selling paper in Switzerland and they have the money... (AND they tried to cheat you) !
good luck
Olav


User currently offlineEduard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Hi all

thanks all of you for your opinions and suggestions.
Today I wrote again a letter to BLICK offering them 2 possibilities for reparation:

a) to pay CHF 1'200.00 or
b) to publish again the photo with full credit/apology and to pay CHF 300.00

I informed them to follow with legal actions and to inform the 'Schweizer Presserat' (Swiss council of press) if they do not accept.
Comparing your opinions above I feel that this is still a fair offer.

I keep you informed.
regards
Eduard


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

No Rob, I didn't miss the point. The one I was making is that if you demand to much from these people REGARDLESS of the fact that they are in the wrong, they MAY refuse to pay and suggest you hire a lawyer. How many people on this site have the money to hire a foreign lawyer to pursue a copyright case such as this?

There is a point where the individual must decide whether to fight on or just take the offered money. There is no set point, it's all up to the individual. whilst our first reaction is always "take them for all you can get", this isnt' always the best move as they make take the stand to just wait the person out and see if they are willing to go to a lawyer, many are not. Remember, the threat of using a lawyer does not automatically force a company to cave it, it's a risky thing to do and sometimes it pays off and others it doesn't. If a person is genuinely willing to hire a lawyer and to pursue it to the end then that's cool too (I like to see copyright infringers get their comeuppance).

Public opinion here doesn't agree with my stand and that's OK by me as it really is up to the original poster to decide what he would like but he needs to be aware of the risks that's all.

I note he's set out his demands and I hope he gets what he is after, and hope he lets us know when it is resolved.






ADG


User currently offlineSpotterboy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Man, don't give up!!!
one of the biggest newspapers from Switzerland had stolen something really RARE from YOU!!!!!!!!!!

If I were you, forgot about every other posibillity --> minnimum = 2000€ ! Or even more! You mustn't forget: Around 300 000 people or more saw your picture!!! You'll have to fight!!!

Good Luck anyway.
Greetings from ya neighbour.

Fl.Tr.


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

I finally got a response from the Polish online news agency that used Glenns picture, apparently their standard rate for image use is $5 US. No wonder they have to steal them!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy




ADG


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