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To Charge Or Not To Charge, That Is The Question.  
User currently offlineTappan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1538 posts, RR: 41
Posted (13 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

Before I start what might be a controversial subject, let me say I am a professional (deriving income..) photographer. That said....Should one charge money for the use of a photo or should one settle for a photo credit and an "'atta Boy!!" Let me also say this, I get rejected (sales wise) often due to the fact that I do not shoot that many "side on photos". Also, I give away (as I choose) my fair share of photos. To kids, non profits even a children's hospital.....
For those who say this site is turning into a pro only site, I can only repeat what I said above. I am rejected often when people tell me I should shoot "simpler, side on shots". Also, for those who say photography is being turned into a business when we choose to charge money for an image I say this. When a company that is listed on the stock exchange has a representative e-mail you and say: "we have no money in the budget for your photo but we would like to give you a photo credit". That person is lying to you...Plain and simple. Let's say it is a plane manufacturer's web site, you can only show this site (with your photo credit) to your friends and family so much before your typing fingers get tired, and your wallet gets thin.
So, cheers, to all the great photographers on this site. And make your choices wisely.
Mark Garfinkel

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

What else can be said. I agree with you 100%.

I have been contacted quite a bit for this VS shot

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Vasco Garcia


and a lot of them wanted to use it for their commercial website or whatever.
Whenever I bring up the money issue, people get really quiet all of a sudden.

Isn't that really interesting? I for my part give out "normal photos" to individulas but would never give out "the shot or "a shot" to a commercial institution which presumingly has no budget.
A couple of weeks ago I was contacted by someone of Boeing and they wanted to use one of my pic in a internal presentation. Same thing

SHOW ME THE MONEY ......like Jerry McGuire said one time......

Even though this is still a hobby, I am not a charity organization.

Just my opinion
Vasco


User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5576 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (13 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4906 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi all

I sometimes feel uneasy selling a shot.

Yes, I have sold a few. The ones I have sold to, they have offered the money first and if I feel the deal looks good, I will accept this.

I exchange shots with people over the world.

If someone asks me for a copy of a shot I do all my best to help out.

There was a guy who I had been talking to for about a year now who lives in Miami. I promised him a shot for months but I had never got round to looking out the neg to get the enlargement done. After another mail from him I decided to get the fleece jacket on and venture up to the attic to get the neg in question.

I then sent it on to him. What really made it worthwhile was the nice Christmas card he sent to me thanking me for my generosity.

Yes, it cost me money to get done but his thoughtfullness after receiving the enlargement was the best part.

A well known flight simulator company asked to use one of my shots on a box cover of some software. They asked how much I would want for the scan. As I am into flight simulators I asked for a copy of the software when completed as payment.

They were only too happy to supply this to me and even kept me up to date with the box cover design by e-mailing me copies!

I get lots of e-mail asking questions like 'please send me a copy of that shot'

I ignore requests like that.

So all in all, I think carefully before deciding if it's a sell or a donoation.

I have to say, I have more donations that sells  Sad

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland




User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5498 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (13 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

I just had a request a few days ago from a multimedia company in Austin TX for one of my DL MD-11 photos. It was going to used on some training peice for DL and would have been used on 1500 CD's. Turned out he needed the '97 livery, but I got the "if your terms meet the constraints of our budget". He offered $50 (which is fine by me though). Any money is money in my pocket in my opinion. Most of my offers though are people asking to use a photo in a brochure or magazine. I usually just ask for a copy for my collection.

User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

I agree 100%. I understand the excitement for new photographers to get published and most will usually "give away" a shot just for the thrill of emailing friends and family to show off the photo. True, there are times that you do need to give away certain shots (ie. non-profit website, enthusiast magazines or books, etc.) but please, please don't let a for-profit company convince you they do not have a budget for photography usage. I have received many request for usage, once I email them back with an estimated quote I usually never hear from them again. These are the people who know eventually they'll get someone to give it to them for free. (and usually get a lower quality image in return) The photogs that give away the shot might think "hey, I got accepted/published and you didn't" but later, when he/she gains more experience and decides, "hey, I work hard and deserve to be paid for my quality photographs" that's when they'll realize. Photography is fun and mainly a hobby for me, but it's also a business. I (as well as many of you) work very hard to produce quality photographs and I feel we all should get properly rewarded. Luckily, there are still many companies out there that understand this and are still willing to pay top-dollar for our work.

Giving away photos to or trading with fellow enthusiast has nothing to do with what I'm mentioning above. I also trade with many many people and have no problem with it. I also sell many photos to people who use them for personal use only (ie. hanging an 8x10 in their home office) and feel they should be charged. Obvisiously at a reduced rate which probably would only generate a small profit.

Michael


User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Sometimes it's really a random decision for me to charge or not. Recently I was asked by TAP Air Portugal for the conditions to use my photos, we change some emails but after I told them the price for each one, they told me "ok sir, when we find necessary, we'll contact you" until today...
I was not sure if my price was to high but I have sold photos in the past for that so I'm not sure what to do.

Luis


User currently offlineSkyliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 204 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

I agree that while it's OK to give away photos for personal use/charitable purposes, business enterprises should not receive the same treatment. They would, of course be shocked if you wanted their product for free! Barter is fine, if they have something you want, like the flight simulator program. I recently allowed a local industry group to use a shot for "One dollar and other valuable consideration". I support what they are doing, they really don't have the budget, and they will help me in ways I need. Non-photographers don't seem to understand that there are both direct costs (film, processing, travel, etc.) and intangible economic impacts, such as how the time spent becoming a good aviation photographer could have been put to use doing something else, possibly even for money. I have sold a number of prints over the years, generally at shows, and there are two reactions to the prices: why does it cost so much; and fine, I'll take these three; with little in between!
George Hamlin


User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

I agree with Mark, but must say I have terrible difficulties deciding a price... There are so many different ways to use a photo.
/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineAndyhunt From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1306 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4853 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I agree with Mike here. In the beginning, I would do it al for free just for the thrill of being published. But now, clearly if the organisation is profit making, then they should pay for it. Imagine how much it would cost them if they had to set up the shoot and pay a pro to get a shot they needed. Lots of $$$$$$. And they find an easy option in us and won't even consider say $50 which is nothing to them.

I wonder how many free subscriptions they give away in their magazines / CD Roms whatever? I wonder how many advertisers they allow to place ads for free. Not a lot methinks.

A couple of days ago a website contacted me asking to use my shots and stated "at this stage we are unable to pay royalties for any shots used". I asked why and she replied "because we can get all of our shots without paying!" At least she was honest!




Full frame always beats post processing
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

I asked why and she replied "because we can get all of our shots without paying!" At least she was honest!

Andy, that is exactly my point. As you are aware this is one of the main reasons most of us never hear back from the person after we give a quote. I understand everyones concern about how much/little you should charge. It's very difficult since there are many many factors involved. On my last quote to a major ad company, I was very unsure, I ended up quoting a very high figure that I felt was accurate based on usage. I figured I'd never get a reply or a "sorry, no thanks" email. Hours later I received a phone call with a very big "yes". So, my point is, there are legitimate companies out there that are willing to pay what we honestly deserve as long as you provide them with high quality work.

Michael


User currently offlineUSAir_757 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 996 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

This is off topic I know, but:

Gary, what is the photo ID of the shot they used on the box?


C. Wassell



-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
User currently offlineF27 From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

I have been approached by a few companys the first one i said yes to was for a photo to beused on the lid of a model. I had no worries with that as it was worth the publicity and cost me nothing to set it up as it was near my home, but one day last week i got and urgent E Mail from the USA from a company wanting to use one of my photos taken over the chequer board in Kai Taik i placed a price on this and received an E Mail back saying we will pass this on to our client. Glad i am not holding my breath as i am still waiting and they wanted to use it for a run of photos commercially




User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4014 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

Very interesting topic. Its a bit ironic that this was brought up, I was approached by BA, FEDEX and a graphic designer working on a Govt contract last week, well all had the gall to ask for 'freebies'...give me a break!

Suffice it to say, I told them who I was and what I do for a living, I gave them my fees, well at least FEDEX and BA had the professionalism to reply to my e-mail and both declined saying in effect that "they were not budgeted for that kind of expenditure" and I never heard fron the graphic desiginer. Let's see a huge worldwide airline and an equally huge small package carrier, can not budget for a measely $XXX.XX ea. Whats wrong with this picture ?

Like most out here, if there is a kid who wants one of my pics for a 'wallpaper' or someone else who wants a photo for their personal use, I have no problem with a 'freebie' here and there, but when a for profit organization has the b**** to ask for a 'frebbie' that ticks me off to no end. The belief from most companies towards photographers who present their work here and on other sites like A.net is ...'They will be so thrilled to have their photos in print..that they will give them away!'.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineTappan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1538 posts, RR: 41
Reply 13, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

Got one today that wanted to make a street billboard on a college campus out of one of my photos...I charge much less than the going rate (which is in the fifteen hundred dollar range) like I say I charge much less than that....I get a responding e-mail that says: we are not used to paying for our photos, saw your photo on airliners.net with the send as post card option, and was then surprised to see one has to contact the photographer. So, she contacted me and was surprised that I would charge a fee. She then said she could get the photo off somebody else on a.net for free. YIPPEE.....YEAH!!!
Sincerely,
Mr. Frustrated In Boston


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

Don't give up Mr. Frustrated, better times will come soon (er) or lat (er) .............



User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4014 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

Well there are some honorable buyers out there.Mike recenty sold one of his images to an AV firm in NY that was handeling an account for a major bank. I too was approached by the same firm on the same day ,and unknown to Mike and myself we were competing against each other. But the point is that there are some firms and publications that will pay, I have had more than my share. Sadly though that appears to becoming more of the exception than the rule.....we can praise the internet for the for the ability to show our work to world in such an manner that no one could have conceived just some 7 years ago, but in the same breath we can condem it to some extent for cheaping the value of our hard work.

I really do not have an answer, myself, I would like every photographer here and elsewhere to charge a 'for profit' organzation when they are approached by one, but I am realistic to know that this is not going to happen. I know that in my business when there are younger and hungrier photographers trying to establish themselves, they will work for lower fees, thus inticing AV agencies and other areas where most freelanced work is the standard, to threaten the more established photogs to lower their day rates and fees or they will go elsewhere...This like any business is very cuthroat and in recent years talent and creativity are much less important than the bottom line. Even the ASMP has little clout nowadays.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineTommy Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 912 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Absolutely....I have no problem with sharing my work with fellow photographers, spotters or non-profit organisations...But commercial companies have the budget. So, I run a business....so do they.

/Tommy Mogren



Flightdeck Action - Cockpit Videos on Blu-ray and DVD - Flights In The Cockpit- You're Invited!
User currently offlineRindt From Germany, joined May 2000, 930 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Very good topic... and I'm enjoying reading all the comments... and I have some of my own.

About two months ago I was contacted by a firm who wanted to use my AW CRJ shot for the front of a brochure. Before I replied, I took a look at their web-site to get some background on their credentials; first to see if they were legit (I still wonder about that) and to get an idea of their annual profit. After giving it some thought, I gave a figure of $1000US. They said they wanted to make 1000 copies, which in turn means they must have a very selective clientel. The project the firm was selling was something in the multi-million dollar range, so I figured if they win the order, what's $1000US to them? And what happened in the end? Like what happens to a lot of the frustrated photographers here, absolutely nothing. They didn't even have the courtesy to reply. It sounds like I'm charging a lot, but given the circumstances, and the firms apparent budget, the figure quoted seems just.

But as a guideline, what is the right price to charge? I'm not talking about the Joe Schmoe's who like aviation and want an extra print, but more along the lines of agencies, firms, airlines, etc.

Best Regards,
Rob





What other people think of you is none of your business!
User currently offlineTguse From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

I have no problem with people want to use my shots on their private, non-profit homepages! I do the same with shots of fellow photographers on my homepage!

But last year, one day after the crash of the Gulf Air A320 at Bharain, I was searching for informations on the net! The first I found was a picture on Yahoo's website which stated copyright by Reuters - but it was MY picture! After I found the same pic on many other german websites I decided to get contact to Reuters. After showing them my picture they said yes it's yours, but he have to ask his english colleagues from where they got the picture. Next day the picture was in all big german newspapers! The Reuters representant called me some days later stating that his english colleagues told him that they got the picture from Airbus Industrie!!! But he didn't believe his colleagues (and I did either)! I can't imagine that Airbus will distribute pictures without having the copyrights! Reuters offered to pay $50 for using the pic + $50 for using it without my permission + $50 for not crediting me! After some negotiations I got $250 for the picture (giving them the right for using it in the future, too).

So all serious companies who want to use your pics for commercial reasons have to pay for this. I they don't want don't give them the permission! I have been ask from United Air Lines if they can use one of my pics. After saying them I have to charge for it, I have never heard again from them!

Regards,
Torben


User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4798 times:

It must be possible to get way more from Reuters for that! That's peaunuts in a case like that!
/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineTguse From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

Jan, you may be right!

But I didn't want to take the opportunity to engage a lawyer and go to court! I didn't want to have a long and straining law-suit!

I was very happy about the money I got for it! That was my first pic I have sold for more than $3 (and without giving the slide/negative away)! That was a large increase for me!

I am photographing for my collection and not for selling the pics! But if I have the possibility to make a little extra money with it, I will take the chance!

Torben


User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4773 times:

Torben,
I totally see what you mean.

Wasn't it Reuters that payed extremely poorly for the crashing Concorde pix as well?

Honeywell asked to use one of my shots, I quoted a price, and today I got a reply from them saying:
"we got another photo at no charge"

/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4776 times:

But as a guideline, what is the right price to charge? I'm not talking about the Joe Schmoe's who like aviation and want an extra print, but more along the lines of agencies, firms, airlines, etc.


Rob,

This is very tough to answer, probably impossible. There are so many factors involved that you can't set a price/quote before the job. I would suggest doing some net seaches on stock agencies and some (very few) do have pricing guidelines for estimates. I don't remember the URL, but I once found a photographers' resource site that let you input usage information and it calculated a est. price high/low so you can determine what the industry average was. I'll have to see if I can find it and post it here. This is probably the toughest part of selling your images. You don't want to charge too high or too low. The bottow line, do some research and don't give away your photos for free.

$50 from Reuters is a disgrace.

Michael


User currently offlineNscaler From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 243 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 4770 times:

Rob, I too was contacted by that firm and with basically the same result that you had. I quoted a lower price (I think it was around $300) and they said they didn't have that in their budget. Like you, I saw how many millions they would receive if chosen, so I figured they could spend that measely amount. They did have the courtesy of replying to it though, something few now seem to do.

Saul


User currently offlineJoe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (13 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 4777 times:

guys, reuters is a client of mine and i asked them about the concorde shot just after the two hugarian guys were on TV and they told me that they got alot more than what the media was saying.

25 Skyliner : "Don't have the budget" is one of the cheapest excuses possible (pun intended!). Pricing of a product needs to be determined by supply/demand consider
26 Tappan : George, Funny you should talk about McDonalds...I now think (no I know) airliners.net is the Filet Mignon of aviation stock photo sites!!!! So, when I
27 F27 : It is unbelievable that these big companys want our photos for nothing but do not take into consideration all the hours standing around waiting and t
28 N949WP : Frankly, for any Kai Tak shots, one should be asking for a premium price, as no one could go there and take pictures of planes EVER again!! '949
29 Granite : Hi all Just a few weeks ago I received a very nice e-mail from a female asking to use one of my shots for an internal document. She then went on to sa
30 Post contains links and images PUnmuth@VIE : Hi! Just after I uploaded this picture Click for large versionPhoto © Peter Unmuth i was contacted by E-Mail from a guy who told me he was workin
31 Skyliner : Re Gary's "request for use in an internal document", since they don't budget for this expense, sounds like the company should rely on its internal res
32 Tguse : George, good point! I think to buy a picture from one of us might be cheaper for the companies than to use own staff to take the photo! Torben
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