Ckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 530 posts, RR: 18 Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5975 times:
Well, I'm guessing they won't - or at least not a DSLR based on 35mm technology. I think they're simply going to licence stuff to Fuji and Kodak in the short term, and continue producing the Coolpix range. Then they will introduce something totally new, probably based on the new Kodak/Olympus 4/3 standard. I have no knowledge of this, pure speculation and deduction but consider:
1 - Nikon has stuck with essentially the same lens mount for decades - it is a "feature" to ensure backwards compatability, however, it is fundamentally limiting ... it simply can't handle the data flow required in modern cameras. This is why Canon did the infamous FD/EF mount switch - and clearly it has paid off. Nikon have reached the end of the road with their current system.
2 - The 35mm based system is less than ideal for digital - which is why the full frame sensor has been so difficult to produce - even the expensive 1Ds has some quality issues with wide angles at the edge of the picture. If Nikon are thinking about changing lens mount, why not go the whole hog and change the camera format - since no film is involved, there are no legacy issues associated with working with film manufacturers.
3 - Nikon has partnerships with Kodak, Kodak is partners with Olympus on the 4/3 format.
4 - I really doubt there is much profitable space for Nikon in the DSLR market at present. Canon, Fuji, Sigma and now Pentax would seem to have it covered - anything Nikon produced would be pressured price wise, and the profit margin small.
In short, I expect nothing from Nikon in the short term ... but then, look out
Sunilgupta From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 770 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5946 times:
Colin, spoken like a true Canon fan
I think that Nikon will introduce a new DSLR this year (again pure speculation). Nikon is not as big as Canon and can’t dump the kinds of dollars into R&D that Canon can. For example, we had to wait a long time for the F100 but it was well worth the wait.
I can’t see anything fundamentally limiting about the Nikon mount. Can you explain that more? Nikon has added features to the mount like the contacts for built-in lens electronics and removed obsolete features. The common lens mount has helped me out over the years by allowing me to gradually upgrade instead of tossing out an entire system to get a new one.
I’m not sure that the 35mm format is the main reason for the lack of full-frame sensors. It’s more of a yield issue with the CCD… the more pixels you have the more chances of having bad pixels and a useless sensor, thus driving up the cost of the remaining good ones. The same used to be true about LCD panels for laptops and flat-panel monitors. As manufacturing technology got better and demand went up, the prices dropped to the point where you can get an LCD panel almost the same price and a CRT.
Nikon’s D100 CCD sensor is rumored to be a Sony sensor. Kodak uses Nikon hardware but I’m not sure which sensor they use.
I’m patiently waiting for the F100 level DSLR from Nikon… it’ll be here sooner if not later.
737heavy From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 601 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5941 times:
And you have the price issue. Canon, with the 10D, are selling it for ridiculous money against what the D60's, D30's and D100's were being priced at. And with the better lens range will would-be Nikon digital buyers be switching over to Canon. I think the 35mm market is becoming over saturated anyway. I mean it's good to have choice and competition but Nikon needs either a cheap working full frame DSLR or something else to try and make an impact back in the digital market. Also aren't the Fuji DSLR's cheaper than the Nikon's and take the same lenses?
Could be a simple price issue that keeps Nikon out of the 35mm DSLR market.
Ckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 530 posts, RR: 18 Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5937 times:
Not sure about relative sizes - don't forget Nikon has a HUGE committment in "specialist" optics (eg. medical) - hell, even my eye-glasses have Nikon lenses! I doubt Nikon R&D is by any means limited.
With regard to mounts - its a combination of bandwidth and power supply - esp. the latter - the reason Canon is able to do USM, IS easily & cheaply is that the various camera functions are located in the part of the camera that does the work - Canon cameras are dependent on having a lens full of motors and electronics to provide full functionality ... the Nikon approach makes advanced functionality much more difficult, but less restrictive in choice of lens. Canon decided to abandon legacy support sometime ago, for which they received much criticism from dedicated FD users (like myself) - but, as a long term strategy, it may have been a wise decision.
CMOS/CCD - yes, size and yields are one factor, but the other is that neither sensor reponds well to light hitting it from an angle. Provided that sufficient density can be acheived and noise issues are put to one side, a smaller sensor should provide better image quality at the edges than a large sensor. This is the weak point of the 1Ds - while offering the promise of true wide angle performance, many reviewers have found edge quality to suffer when using ultra-wide lenses.
I don't think we will see a digital F100. Apart from lens compatability issues, there is absolutely no reason why digital should remain shackled to the 35mm format - and many good reasons to move to another format - look how innovative the Coolpix series has been. Canon made the decision to abandon a lens mount many years ago - I'd suggest Nikon has even stronger reasons for doing so now as they would be in a position to produce an optimised digital camera and lenses, and steal a huge chunk of market back from Canon, who are clearly solidly committed to the 35mm based format for the forseeable future.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5916 times:
Heard last year that Nikon is waiting for the next generation CCDs, probably the 14MP fullframe 35mm CCD that's under development by Kodak will find its way into the next generation Nikon DSLR.
Nikon, unlike Canon, doesn't believe in releasing a complete product range every 6 months.
If it ain't broke don't fix it is their strategy which rewards Nikon users with superior products and support (no "sorry sir, but that camera is 2 years old, we no longer carry spares for it. But we can give you a nice deal on this new one here").
The Nikon lensmount isn't limited because it's old. It's been enhanced greatly over the years, maintaining backwards compatibility so users can keep their old lenses and use them (with limited function of course) on new cameras.
It's not meant to provide forwards compatibility which would be a severely limiting factor as with that they'd still be stuck with manual focus lenses without aperture control by the camera.
As a sidenote, Nikon is licensing their lensmount and part of the electronics to Fuji for their line of DSLRs allowing for more sales of Nikon lenses.
Ckw From UK - England, joined Aug 2010, 530 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5893 times:
LOL, you Nikon guys are very defensive - I'm not even bashing them!
If Nikon do what I'm suggesting, they will leave Canon in the shade in a couple of years, with a new system with huge potential for development. Why is it so hard to accept that a technology which has at least 40 year old roots might just have a few issues?
As for the much vaunted compatabilty issue, well yes, most lenses sort of work on most bodies, but any Nikon manual I've ever seen seems to have an enormous list of exceptions and special conditions - "Some lenses cannot be attached to the F90"; "Set shutter speed to 1/125 sec. or slower"; "only on Tuesdays when facing in a Northerly direction".
By changing mounts, Canon was able to create a totally integrated system in which there are few exceptions to the rule, and even interfacing items like teleconvertors or bellows causes no problems - Nikon have struggled, and sometimes failed, to make everything work with everything, which I think has prevented, delayed or made very expensive new innovations such as IS, ultra fast lenses, full time manula focus overide etc. - there are still things Canon can do that Nikon can't - eg. auto optimum depth of field calculation.
In sticking with the basic F mount, Nikon kept a lot of existing customers happy, but the trade off was a development handicap. The fact that Canon bit the bullet and abandoned the FD mount is largely responsible for Canon eclipsing Nikon by the 90's in almost every field where Nikon had dominated through the 60s, 70s and into the 80s. Nikon need to do something dramatic to get the pendulum swinging back again.
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5882 times:
you have a wonderful way with words. You seem to utilize the enlish language to its fullest extent, your words are rich in character. My favorite is the last bulletpoint though
-any Nikon manual I've ever seen seems to have an enormous list of exceptions and special conditions - "Some lenses cannot be attached to the F90"; "Set shutter speed to 1/125 sec. or slower"; "only on Tuesdays when facing in a Northerly direction".
-Nikon have struggled, and sometimes failed, to make everything work with everything, which I think has prevented, delayed or made very expensive new innovations such as IS, ultra fast lenses, full time manula focus overide etc. - there are still things Canon can do that Nikon can't - eg. auto optimum depth of field calculation.
-The fact that Canon bit the bullet and abandoned the FD mount is largely responsible for Canon eclipsing Nikon by the 90's in almost every field where Nikon had dominated through the 60s, 70s and into the 80s
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 55 Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5865 times:
thadaboy Royal, i knew i'd get you do the right thing one day. Next victim is Sam, he's due for a conversion, he's just at the threshold of "ok ok let me just do it and take the abuse". Then Art. Mike and Carlos are going to stick with nikon even if kills them- hey, you can't change everyone
ADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5795 times:
What exactly has the 10D got that makes it better than the D100?
Joe: no one is getting nervous because you guys are merely speculating, time will tell what's going on with the cameras, until then unless the cameras offer something new a lot of people will stick with what they have.
Will the 10D fix the D60 flaw that all the photogs are bitching about?
(file writing problem and jumping/missing thumbnail defect)
Joe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 55 Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5805 times:
i dont understand, i've had my D60 since last april, have shot many many images with it and never had any of these "flaws" that photographers are bitching about and i never even did the firmware update. Royal is a knowledgable guy, apparently there are some outstanding issues with his current setup if he's looking at the D10, no nikon owner simply looks at a major changeover (body/lenses/etc) unless there are major issues he's facing. As far as what the 10D has got that makes it better- you're asking the wrong guy since i think the D60 is better and the 10D improves on the D60
not only a fan but major player in the n vs c wars.
JeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 53 Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5765 times:
I saw a nice article on you in one of the popular aviation magazines the other day. A good read, I enjoyed it!
I think what Royal is considering is something a lot of photographers are thinking about. Notice I didn't say Nikon users.....
You know I am a huge fan of the Canon d60 cmos chip. I had the money, had it's big brother the 1D in my hand, and almost bought one until I found out first hand about the poor low light focusing. Something I needed for other then aircraft shots. The D100 "fit" what I needed, and works very well in all situations I've used it in.
If the 10d is all that they say it will be, and time will tell, then why wouldn't anyone consider buying it? It looks good on paper so far. Equipment comes and goes. Nikon does not own me, nor will Canon.
Looking forward to seeing just what the new kid on the block can do!
DSMav8r From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 579 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5773 times:
In all honestly, despite my favortism towards Nikon, I would probably be very happy with Canon. The only problem is, once you have thousands and thousands of dollars in lenses and other accessories specifically for Nikon, it wouldn't make any sense to jump to another brand. Canon may have a slight edge on technology and a few other areas, but none are so far ahead of Nikon that it warrants a switch, IMO. I don't think the technology gap is wide enough to see much of a difference between competing models (S2, D60, D100)...
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5766 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
I'm all about having the right tools for the right job. When I snowboard I pick from powder boards, a "fun" board, or a "cruiser" board. I have a sports car, a sedan, and a SUV. I'm not loaded, but I believe in having what I want. Who says you couldn't use Canon AND Nikon?
25 Ckw: ADG - I think most of the D60 bugs were fixed with firmware upgrades. The 10D appears to address some of the more fundamental problems, most important
26 Sunilgupta: These conversations always degrade into n v. c wars... pointlessly. We nikon folks were not becoming defensive in the least... instead, we are merely
27 ADG: Colin, According to the forum i'm reading Canon won't even admit there is a problem even though lots of people have the issues. Generally the complain
28 Alaskaairlines: I also enjoy reading the N vs C wars. I can't really comment on the DSLR's, because I don't have one - but when it comes to SLR's. I would not want to
29 Jwenting: Hej Joge, good of you to drop in. I fully agree, my Minolta has worked without bugs for the last 20 years, and hasn't needed freshly charged batteries
30 Ckw: Sunil - really I had not intended this to be a Nikon vs Canon debate (well, OK, who can resist the odd bitchy remark) but really a consideration of wh
31 N178UA: I just saw this thread got 30 replies and no doubt I know Joey is start digging on Nikon again and hence the fun starts once again Next victim is Sam,
32 N178UA: Royal Further to your underperformed D100 is because you have the firmware 1.0 installed, you really need to send to Nikon do a firmware upgrade, the
33 Clickhappy: yeah but then I will be without a digital body for a week... part of the reason I am a little unhappy with Nikon, to tell the truth.
34 Timdegroot: "I would not want to part with my F5 for any reason - imo its the best Pro SLR out on the market" You know this is not true D, ever heard of the EOS1V
35 N178UA: I just love my F5....it is so fast, tight and weight that I won't even shake and blur the shot. It is a strongest built camera! Except I have problem
36 Alaskaairlines: Tim, ofcourse I have heard of the 1V, I have heard it fire - sounds good! We should have had a race with Joe when I was over there to see how fast we
37 Joe pries: So Joe, Tokina is good, don't know about Sigma. ---- Dmitry, you know my take- i want nothing to do with either one of those or kenko or whatever othe
38 DSMav8r: Tokina is good, but only the upper-echelon glass. I have a 28-70 f2.6-2.8 and it is actually sharper than a lot of my Nikkor short-zooms (and cheaper)
39 Alaskaairlines: Joe, its the lense Aric mentioned above. There is a difference between the $50 28-80 and the $500, and no way you could tell between to slides that wa
40 N178UA: Ditto to Dmitry I just bought 500 bucks or less a Tokina 28-80mm F2.8 it is fast, no vignetting and heavy but tight! I love it, and shame Nikon sell t
41 L-188: Enjoy it while it lasts guys! You know it will no longer be a N vs. C was after July. Pentax will have their DSLR out. So now we will have a three way
42 Timdegroot: I use an EOS33 Dmitry. Not top of the line but it gets the job done. Looking to upgrade to something heavier though. Didn't know you used a Tokina len
43 Joe pries: D, Sam, i appreciate what you say but for me personally, i only want something that says Canon L on it and the cost is not an issue because I use my e
44 Alaskaairlines: I fully agree with you Joe! I am just starting to get known around ANC and about, if I get to shoot as much as you do and commercially, no doubt I wou
45 N178UA: D- I also own a Mercedes Benz and shoot green! (I do not drive BMW and shoot yellow)
46 L-188: Yes. Dimitry. I heard you where snooping around where I work yesterday. Glad that you got on the ramp to take some shots but there was a discussion ab
47 Alaskaairlines: Hey Shawn! Oh is FS where you work at? Yeah I had a native guy escort me around, got one of the metros and one of the lears. Also got a couple shots o
48 L-188: No, it wasn't a problem. It's a weekend none of the bosses are around......
49 ADG: So now we will have a three way fight.... Fuji, Nikon, Canon, Kodak .. third? ADG
50 Alaskaairlines: Oh OK Shawn, well stay tuned - my photos should be up in about 2 1/2 weeks. -Dmitry
51 L-188: You should have went out today. You could have seen Village Air Cargo's casa slide off the end of the ERA ramp. It is still there tonight.
52 Alaskaairlines: Shawn, its kind of like a gamble - you hope for the best when your heading out! I shot lots of photos of the lear and metro, cockpit shots also. -Dmit