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Show Me The Money, But How Much?  
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

Hello,

I know that Chris just asked that question not too long ago, now I will bother you guys with mine.

This is the photo


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Vasco Garcia



Company who wants to use it is
http://www.sensis.com

and this is the e-mail, looks like they want to purchase the whole thing.


That is my initial e-mail:
Hello Dana,

thank you for your interest in using one of my pictures. Are you working
for the Sensis Corporation ( www.sensis.com) ?

As much as I would like to give you a price for the usage right now it all
depends on how you would use the picture?

Brochures? What would be the circulation / publication?
Ads? Where would these ads be seen? National, International?

Poster? Who would be the end user of the poster.

Would you like to use it in an ad, brochure, poster, or all the above?
What happens to the copyright? This will stay with me or would you like to
buy the copyright of the picture?
Would it be a one time use only?

Let me know and we can certainly work out a price which suits both of us.


and this is her answer:

She wrote:
the use would be exactly as I described, all kinds of things.
We'd like it to be unlimited. We are not big advertisers and our usual
brochure run is under 2000. But we want flexibility to use the image for
anything we want. Unlimited usage.



I guess the magic word here is unlimited usage and that pinpoints the price. But how much?

Are USD 250.00 in a range you would think is ok?


Thanks for the input.

Vasco





46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11955 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

Have you suggested that price to those who wish to use it?

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineJan Mogren From Sweden, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2043 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Vasco,
You should get way more than that.
In a Swedish brochure from the branch I read
prices like $1000 for this, $700 for that and so on.
Those are all one off. And you still have the copyright in those cases I read.

In your case they want it all!
LOTS MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Very hard to say just *how* much ...
/JM



AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5578 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3092 times:
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Hi Vasco

I don't really have an answer for this one.

I did sell a shot for unlimited useage a few years ago for 65.00GBP.

Possibly Lawrence Feir, Joe Pries or Jan Morgen might have a better idea on this as they have a lot of dealings with companies etc.

Whatever happens and whatever you get, save some of the money to buy me a drink if I ever come over to Boston  Smile

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland


User currently offlineScooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 857 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3083 times:

I'm a graphic designer, and here is what one of our suppliers usually charges for a "royalty free" image (an image that we buy the rights to and are free to use as we wish):

600K 72dpi:
US$29.95

10MB 300dpi:
US$99.95

28MB 300dpi:
US$179.95

Note that these prices are for stock photography. You might be able to get a little more...but I wouldn't think a smaller company would pay up to 1k(US) for an image. But who knows. Throw a price at them, and if they balk, negotiate a little.

Good luck!


User currently offlineJoe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3088 times:

Vasco,
She also contacted me for usage yesterday for one of my photos (similar to your photo but a day shot) and i gave her a price- but she didnt bite. btw 250 is nuts- unlimited means they can use the photo for what they want whenever they want forever- worth more than 250 no?

This is a message to ALL of you out there- DONT GIVE YOUR PHOTOS AWAY for just a few bucks. If they really want your photo they'll pay. I've been doing this for 12 years, i know.


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3074 times:

Joe,

I know what unlimited means and I guess USD250 are a joke, but how high can I go........similar what Jan said.........750USD range?

Vasco


User currently offlineBrownphoto From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 151 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3061 times:

Hello All -

Concerning an amount of money to charge for the release of all rights to a photo you must consider what you are giving away.

If I were in Vasco's position, I would be starting at $2500, and maybe accept $1500. I would also state that the photo can remain in the A-Net database. Remember, if you sell the copyright, you would have to remove it from the database, as it is not yours anymore.

As an aside, one of the photos I took of the USS Constitution sold to a military helicopter manufacturer, all rights and usage, and I got $5000. I'd show you the photo, but since I don't own it anymore...  Smile

Anyway, hold out for big bucks if they want the copyright. If they only want SOME usage rights, then negotiate in good faith for what you feel is reasonable.

If you need more help with this, please e-mail me directly, and I can help you out.


Joe Brown



User currently offlineJoe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3070 times:

because it is a small company that is not widely recognized like a GE or Honeywell i'd go in the 500-750 range Vasco. If it was GE or Honeywell the number would be around 10 times that.

User currently offlineJoe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3057 times:

to Joe Brown- you have to take the shot into consideration too when pricing- my shot and vasco's shot can be taken again any day- for Vasco's you need a rainy night, mine was a sunny day. If it was a shot that is hard to replicate or required travel to a far away (expensive) place then that figures in too.
This should be a lesson to all of you though that a company such as this is shopping around airliners.net with the different photographers hoping to grab someone who doesnt know any better and will sell them an image for 50 bucks. Dont be a fool and give things away for nothing.


User currently offlineScooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 857 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3034 times:

Joe just hit it smack on the head. If they don't like your price, they'll pick another photo from another photographer in search of something lower. After all, there are nearly 140,000 photos on this site alone to choose from.

Competition is a bitch, so you need to be considerate when you state your price. Throwing out a highball number without much thought to the actual VALUE of the photo will kill the sale.

I agree too that if this were a major corporation, you could get some big $$ out of it...but since this is a smaller company, don't expect a large amount. Even the fortune 500 company I work for would simply laugh at a quote of $1500 for a stock photo. Surely we could find something cheaper...


User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3036 times:

Unlimited can mean different things and you should have full terms agreed upon before proceeding. You can license (you retain copyright) the image for unlimited use but still set length restrictions. For example, one-year unlimited. Even for a one-year unlimited, I would say $250 to be on the (very) low end. Take Joe's (Pries) advice and ask nothing lower than $750. However, I would suggest going higher. I recently licensed a photo with very restricted one-year usage for several times that amount. Now, if they are asking for full unlimited length/usage and copyright release you'd be nuts to accept $250.

Good luck and hope it works out...

Michael


User currently offlineTomH From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Vasco,
This appears to be a shot you could replicate without too much trouble-or at least take a similar shot with similar subjects. The subjects are current, so it isn't an historic image. I would unhesitatingly jump at $250.00. That's 20 rolls of slides purchased, developed and mounted. Go for it now, before they settle on lesser quality for $25.00. And they will.
TomH


User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

I had nothing before and it seems that I have nothing now. I gained some experience though and that is priceless.

I took Joe Pries figure USD750, added USD 150 to have a range I can play with and it seems that I lost as they could not do it or did not want to do it.

Nevertheless I e-mail back and asked for the price they want to pay. Let's see what happens.

If they don't reply anymore, at least I have an idea now for any future requests.

Thanks to all for the immediate input.


Vasco Garcia



User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11955 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

Tell us how it ends.  Smile
This could be of help to others who wish to sell pictures, without knowing how much to charge.

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineAKE0404AR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

that was already the end of it. Did not sell it.

Vasco

p.s. Garry, don't worry about the beer. I still have some money left even w/o the deal.



User currently offlineA380-200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2987 times:

Hi Vasco,

Dean here, a friend of Gary's...

Have you seen Gary drink before...?

You'll need a few deals to keep this boy in beers  Wink/being sarcastic

Sorry Gary, am I exagerating again? (Don't worry though...I am saving for the Heathrow trip...lots of film and lots of beers  Big thumbs up)

Cheers (hic) all,
Dean


User currently offlineJoe pries From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1957 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Vasco,
They didnt get back to me either- but i wasnt really holding my breath. I've been doing this for a while now and i know that when they want it, they WANT it and they want it yesterday and want to know how soon they can ge me to go fedex them the slide. when they want to play the "we cant afford to spend alot" games, i already know that im probably wasting time.


User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Sorry to hear about the bust deal Vasco.
Your shot truly deserves the applaude by many,
Damm, this kinda surprises me that a cost of such an amount [5000] is recommended for a deal.
Wow.
But how do companies approach you to propose a deal to buy a photo?
is airliners.net the only resource companies use to get a photo they need? what are other ways?


Bo



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

I agree with Joe, when they really want something they want it fast. Recently I received an email from some advertising agency requesting a photo and the deadline was very tight for me as I received the email at 00:00 local time and they wanted the photo in the next morning but the problem is that I could not be waken more time and next morning I didn't have acess to internet so I couldn't discuss prices with them.

This is part of the email:

"...The ad itself is 5 inches square, but the jet would only occupy about 2 inches of that space. The bottom half of the ad is all text. I will need a digital file(300 dpi, approximately 6 inches wide) and you must be able to send it to me through email by tomorrow(Tuesday)morning. This is a very tight deadline, please let me know as soon as possible how much you want for the image and when you can deliver it."

I've send the picture but next day they replied to me saying that they have got another photo before mine.

Luis, Faro, Portugal


User currently offlineTappan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1538 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

This Economic downturn has hit some pretty good. I would have asked for $500.00 USD...Ihave been going for quantity...In other words, trying to get 4 or 5 "hits" (sails) a month...
Cheers
MG


User currently offlineTappan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1538 posts, RR: 41
Reply 21, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Also, In addition to asking for $500.00 I would have tried to get her to just take in a high res scan that I would e-mail her. That is all....No exclusive rights....I would still own it. I would get $500.00 She would get a web site photo a poster and a brochure...Nothing else...
Mark G


User currently offlineCarlos_borda From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

I'm still learning the aspect of "money-for-photos" in the hobby, but I can definitely back up what Joe P, Mike M and some others have said. If a company wants your specific photo, they'll pay good money for it.
First of all, try and make any serious deals over the phone and not via emails. If they are serious enough, they'll want to talk details with you over the phone. That's a sign sometimes if they are serious or not...

I sold this photo here
Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Carlos Borda

a couple months ago to an ad agency. They found it here @ airliners.net. I gave the guy a price and he said he couldn't do it. I nicely told him OK thank you, bye. He ended up calling me back two weeks later to try and negotiate some more. We agreed to a price and "a contract." To me, the contract was very important because I sold them the photo for a little cheaper than the original price I quoted them. But in return, the contract states that my full name will be credited, I retain ownership and copyright of my slide and the photo cannot be on display for more than a year. This photo will be on a large display in Terminal C @ EWR airport starting this week or next. The moral of the story... hang in there and try and get what you feel you deserve. Camera's, film and countless hours at the airport cost a lot of money too. Many ad agency's and companies cry poverty when it comes to paying you a fair price.... but after all, your photo is an ad for them so THEY can make money off of it! They have the big money to play, so hang in there and negotiate what you feel is fair for you.

Carlos Borda


User currently offlineTappan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1538 posts, RR: 41
Reply 23, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Nice photos you all have posted on this thread...good stuff to you Vasco....You know, I wonder how many legitimate big company aviation sites have posted airliners.net stuff and have not asked to....I wonder.....
Cheers
Mark G
I wonder if any of mine are out there without my knowledge...HMMMMM


User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5499 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

Damn, maybe I got ripped (I thought I got a good deal). I had eyeticket corp. use my Saudi Arabian 744 coach class photo. They were going to blow it up, and crop some of it down, so they could actually play a movie on the movie screen. They gave me a range on what they paid, and I figured $150USD was fine. I probably could have gotten a lot more. ARG!!! Lesson learned there!

"We have bought several photos from various online sources for this project and the prices have ranged from $89 - $200 per picture. I am not sure if that
is inline with what you have charged for the rights to use photos in the past or not. Please let me know.
We can FedEx you a check if you could FedEx (using our account info) us the photo ASAP.


25 Joe pries : i love it when a company says they're "prepared" to pay you x amount of dollars (usually not much of em)- you have the product and YOU make the price,
26 AKE0404AR : What Joe just described this is excactly where the market is headed in every field of business. It starts here or somewhere else and it ends at the de
27 Post contains images Scooter : Hmm... There is simply too much competition out there to be asking for more than $200 for just a picture of a modern airliner. I've said it a couple t
28 Tappan : Are you sure that Corbis/Sigma is only $50.00.....I don't think so MG
29 Mikephotos : Scott, Why charge more than $200? Because there ARE companies willing to pay what we all deserve. Of course it depends on usage. I just received a PO
30 Granite : Hi all I have just 'sold' a shot to a Russian aviation mag. Not sold as such. They said that they cannot pay real money for the shot(?) so I am happy
31 Post contains images Thom@s : To bad they didn't buy your picture Vasco. Oh well, Their loss. Thom@s
32 TomH : A little information for you to consider regarding profit. I had my first photo published in print around 1976. The majority of the 4000+ photos I hav
33 Mikephotos : I have never been involved in an aviation image sale in the hundreds of dollars, and have never even heard of an aviation image sale in the thousands
34 Skyliner : Gary: Even though the BBC subsequently removed the image at your request, in point of fact they did use it for their commercial purposes. You might wa
35 Post contains images Granite : Hi George Thanks for your reply. I actually worded my e-mail to the BBC along similar lines to your post It would have been a good idea to invoice the
36 Skyliner : Gary: A reasonable approach. While it's annoying to have a shot "pinched", it's also useful to consider both how much real damage has been done, and i
37 Post contains links Invader : A look at the recommended prices ("richtprijzen") of the Dutch Photographers Federation ("Fotografenfederatie") might be of some help. Look at http://
38 Post contains links and images AKE0404AR : I guess patience and hard work pays off: Finally sold this one for a good price (if you consider the time and effort I put in to take that pic) to an
39 Mikephotos : Congrats Vasco, seems like a nice going away present. Michael
40 Thomasphoto60 : Say Vasco, this agency wasn't a London based agency by chance ? Again Congrats. Thomas
41 AKE0404AR : Thomas, No it is based in Massachusetts.
42 Kd : guys, just make it easy for you: sell them royality free to them but tell them that the right remains with you, that they may not resell it and that t
43 Thomasphoto60 : In essence what you are referring to is also know as 'one time rights'. Most stock houses sell only one time rights, only in rare cases will a stock h
44 Thom@s : Nice photo Vasco, nice to hear you got a sale. btw. are you taking pictures for a living or just for fun? Regards Thom@s
45 AKE0404AR : Just for the fun of it, but a lot of friends and fellow photographers here asked me the same question as you did Thom@s. They suggested I should do it
46 Post contains images Thom@s : Vasco, in my humble opinion, you have alot of "the shot"s in here. They just have to be discovered by the right person, and ta-daa; You have a full ti
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