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Which Aircraft Is The Most Diffuclt To Land?  
User currently offlineScoliodon From India, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 11673 times:

Hi All,

Seeing the bad landings thread..I was wondering ..under perfectly normal conditions, which aircraft is the most difficult to fly an approach by hand and land ? (I presume it would be one of the heavies..or is it one of the bantamweights?)

Would be great if the pilots out there could throw some light on this...

From what I've read on this forum, the 767 seems to be one hell of an animal to land..is that so?

Thanks for ur input.

Regds
Balki

P.S: I searched for older threads on this topic..but cudn't find any. Pls bear with me if this has been discussed already  Smile


JFK-LGA-EWR-DTW-IND-PHX-CLE-SFO-LAS-SEA-ORD-MCO-MIA-DFW-ATL-CDG-FRA-BOM-MAA-DEL-TRZ-DXB-CLT-CVG-DEN-MSP
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5254 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11623 times:

A friend of mine, who flies for AA, thinks that it is easy to make a good landing with a 727, but very difficult to make a great landing.

When he was an F/E, there was an F/O that made the softest landings. No one knew that the main gear were on the runway, until the F/O started to put the nose down.

Despite watching the F/O, my friend never figured out the secret to making a great landing in the 727.


User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11590 times:

For me the MD11 was the hardest to land by far. 767 never seemed difficult. The 727 could be landed well almost every time, but it could also bite you. You couldn't take it for granted or you'd prang it. When flying the 727, everyone seemed to have a different technique. MD80's are a bit unstable, but not that difficult to land. 737's are easy.

MD11's sucked to land followed by the 767-200. Everything else lands fine.


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11567 times:

I have only landed the CRJ and the SAAB2000 among transport category airplanes. They both have their tricky things, but both can also be greased on. The key to ultra smooth landings on both is a slight crosswind, about 7-10 knots. That way you can put one gear down before the other one and that really tends to have a smoothing effect on the whole thing.

The difference between a real greaser and a seemingly rough landing might only be a couple of inches or knots on the speed.

The CRJ does have to be handled carefully in really strong crosswinds to not dip the wing too much as it has very little clearance on the 50-seat versions.

[Edited 2006-09-12 18:12:32]


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1572 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11566 times:

Quoting Scoliodon (Thread starter):
Which Aircraft Is The Most Diffuclt To Land?

The one you haven't been trained on.  Smile



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineScoliodon From India, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11472 times:

Gr8 guys..thanks for the answers. The MD-11 and the 727 and the CRJ..interesting..

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 4):
The one you haven't been trained on.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 



JFK-LGA-EWR-DTW-IND-PHX-CLE-SFO-LAS-SEA-ORD-MCO-MIA-DFW-ATL-CDG-FRA-BOM-MAA-DEL-TRZ-DXB-CLT-CVG-DEN-MSP
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11448 times:

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 2):
MD11's sucked to land followed by the 767-200. Everything else lands fine.

I always thought the 767-200 was easier to land than the -300. Neither one was hard to land, but was not easy to get a super smooth landing like you could on a 757.

I agree. The MD-88 is a bit quirky. The same method does not always produce the same results.

[Edited 2006-09-12 18:13:28]

User currently offlineKaukau From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11418 times:

The HA pilots put down their 767s smooth and pretty! (But they never feel "greased"!)

[Edited 2006-09-12 18:46:50]

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12593 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks ago) and read 11312 times:

Probably the Gee Bee Racer:



 Smile



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11276 times:

I have spoken to pilots that flew the Mitsubishi MU-2 and I have been told its a real treat to land.

User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11245 times:

I guess this seems the right thread to ask this question.....

What is it like landing an aircraft? I mean, can you see the runway at all or do you rely complete on instruments, even during good conditions? I would imagine that you can bare see the runway infront of you.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11220 times:

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 2):
For me the MD11 was the hardest to land by far

Coincidentally I have heard that the DC10 is a real handful. Would you put it down to these two being so tailheavy?


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11219 times:

N1819U was difficult to land.

User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11114 times:

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 10):
I guess this seems the right thread to ask this question.....

What is it like landing an aircraft? I mean, can you see the runway at all or do you rely complete on instruments, even during good conditions? I would imagine that you can bare see the runway infront of you.

It depends on the weather conditions, but pilots tend to land the aircraft using both visual and instrument references. I am looking both in and out to check that the airspeed is where it should be. The visual slope and laterally it is fairly easy to check visually, but airspeed can be way off and you would never know it by looking out the window.

When flying a 'real' ILS down to a low decision altitude, you are 'inside' the plane. Then when getting towards the DA the non-flying pilot is looking out for the needed visual cues (lights, runway environment, etc.). It can be a bit tricky transitioning from monitoring only instruments to looking outside.

I tend to monitor the instruments a lot when 10 miles out visually. Then as you get closer you look more and more at the runway environment. My last instrument/airspeed check is at about 100 feet. Checking airspeed is the biggest thing when visual. Checking everything (speed, altitude, glideslope and localizer deviation, etc.) is important when flying in IMC - Instrument Meteorological Conditions.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2901 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11042 times:

Quoting Scoliodon (Thread starter):
under perfectly normal conditions, which aircraft is the most difficult to fly an approach by hand and land

What about Concorde?



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10934 times:

I land visually with an in and out scan that on references the airspeed and dounut. Mostly the donut (alpha/speed bug). The flare is based on visual cues. On the big ones (767) you start to flare at an altitude callout like 30' and gradually pick up your visual cues with experience. Wind, Wx, Cg, and many other factors mean that it is always different to some small or great extent.

User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2454 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10818 times:

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 9):
I have spoken to pilots that flew the Mitsubishi MU-2 and I have been told its a real treat to land.

I've heard the same thing.


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Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineAJO From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10753 times:

Without a doubt the Lockheed U-2 ("Dragon Lady"). It only has wheels in the center of the fuselage:


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Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images



(the small ones under the wing drop off after take off)



bla
User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10720 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
N1819U was difficult to land.

And the good guys up front did one hell of a job. They deserve all the credit they can get for the number of souls that made it out of there alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_flight_232


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12482 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10691 times:

Yes, the MD11 is certainly a handful and its record shows that there have been quite a few landing incidents. The 767-300/300ER has also had a few incidents, with American and Alitalia being among those stung.

By contrast, other widebodies - particularly the 777 - seem relatively easy; by all accounts I've heard, the Triple is a joy, but I guess the same thing can be said of all aircraft; plan your approach, flap extension (and yes, gear extension certainly contributes to a smooth landing) and be focused and even an MD11 can give you a decent landing; treat any aircraft casually and it'll bite you back ...


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10572 times:

One thing most people don't know, including even controllers, is that the CRJ is a Category D aircraft. The approach and landing speeds are similar to those of the MD-11. I have never flown an aircraft as heavy as the MD-11, and I am sure it is a challenge, but I always find it interesting that many people think that the larger an aircraft is, the harder it is to fly. Not always true.


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8677 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10576 times:

What about the Airbus A320 series a/c. They tend to flaire in at angle slightly higher than the B737.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 39
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10502 times:

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 13):

Thanks for the reply. I can understand the need to keep track of the aircrafts speed and height whilst landing hence looking at the gauges. Although, is it actually physically possible to see the centre of the runway whilst landing. The height of the aircraft dashboard and the angle the aircraft is landing at seems to 'block' the view. I ask this because landing in MS Flight sim with the cockpit view on in nearly impossible as you cannot see the runway.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10388 times:

Yes, it is possible in the CRJ to see the runway. The CRJ lands very flat with very little nose up attitude. I understand your question though. I cannot say for larger planes like the MD-11 or 747 or A330, which all land with quite a bit of nose up pitch.


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2714 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10316 times:

I spoke to an Air Wisconsin CRJ pilot once and he said the CRJ is very tricky to land because the wings are so close to the ground.

25 Post contains images MCIGuy : Viper (F-16), don't know about airliners.
26 Legoguy : Again, thanks. I have heard that any commercial aircraft with engines mounted at the back (meaning wings closer to the rear) are hard to land in cros
27 Post contains images Saab2000 : I have met several hundred Air Wisconsin pilots.
28 Happy-flier : I don't know this as I've never had the chance to fly in one, but I remember hearing that the Stretch Eight (DC-8) is difficult to land smoothly. Fran
29 Yellowtail : Space Shuttle qualifies as an aircraft.
30 Legoguy : No, it qualifies as a brick.
31 CFTOA : I always wondered, whether or not its trickier landing an aircraft with a side-stick, instead of a yoke. Is it trickier?
32 BoeingOnFinal : I figure that the Antonov 225 isn't very easy to land. Seem like you can't control the pitch when on short final, only control sink rate with the thro
33 ETA Unknown : I heard the VC10 was very difficult, especially compared to the 707.
34 DashTrash : The Dash 8 is awful. I don't know anyone who can make consistantly smooth landings with it. That tall main gear doesn't help, and there isn't much tra
35 Lospaziale : I've heard that the AWACS airplanes are quite hard to land because of the big radar and its aerodinamical effects, especially with some crosswind...
36 SimProgrammer : More like a glider. My vote goes to the DC10
37 Post contains images SlowBus : Looks quite obvious, but I`ve read about one guy, who tried a spectacular landing and he really did it - just because he forgot this elementary proce
38 SNfreak : The 320 lands pretty easy in my opinion. Don't know about the 318/319/321 though. Most of the time I land the 320 softer than the Archer/Arrow/Seneca
39 Kaukau : Island Air (WP) pilots drop that Dash-8 down to Kapalua/West Maui JHM in serious 35+mph windage doing a 90+ degree left turn steep dive approach down
40 Floridaflyboy : I've heard from a few pilots that the ATR-72 is tough to land because of its narrow width between the main gear and the length of the wing. They say i
41 ZRH : I spoke with some A 330/340 pilots of Swiss which were flying MD 11 before. They all said that it does not matter at all if it is yoke or side-stick.
42 Post contains images Nkops : I had a pretty difficult time landing the 737-400 on the aircraft carrier on the FS... but I guess thats not considered normal conditions!!
43 Post contains images SP90 : What about carrier landings? The ship is always turned into the wind for launch and recovery so there won't be much crosswind but I'm sure landing on
44 Post contains images Antoniemey : A Lego brick? The only supersonic glider known to man. I imagine it's pretty hard to land, since if you oops, you can't go back around and try again.
45 Post contains images N1120A : They also seem to bounce more in the cabin Gee, I wonder why
46 Post contains images Swissy : First thanks for all the nice insight you pilots gave to us, always a pleasure hearing what the pros. think.... Spoke to MD11 pilots of LX/MP and they
47 MCOflyer : I would think that the MD-11 and the CRJ-100/200 series are hardest. I would think the 700/900 series is easy due to the angle of the rear section of
48 Bucky707 : I flew the AWACS in the Air Force. Very nice landing airplane, even in a crosswind.
49 Legoguy : Hahahahaha YEs I would have to agree the space shuttle would be hard to land but it isn't a commercial aircraft. Not at the moment anyway.
50 Post contains images AirWillie6475 : As far as commercial airliners, I would say from what I've heard and seen, it's the CRJ. The crj has no slats and it has a higher speed when it comes
51 Post contains images Scoliodon : Great to see the answers from the ppl upfront! Thanks for the info. never knew that. Looks like the CRJ is more of a dog than I thought. I know exactl
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