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Which Is Better New Or Used Biz Jet  
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7142 times:

GoodAfternoon dear airliners.net members,,,

This is my first ever post after i just registerd, for long period i was a frequent visitor to this forum and today i finalized it and joined you guys.

I am working in a huge company (considered one of the biggest 25 in the world) at the last board meeting the top executive asked me to prepare a proposal to buy an aircraft that can fly from DXB to LHR without any stop.
I thought that you guys can help me with this.

Just for your information, at least 18 person will fly this jet (all together).
we would like to know how much it will cost and which is better for the next 20 years, should we buy new or a second hand aircraft

Many thanks

[Edited 2006-11-02 12:57:17]

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3076 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7134 times:

Yeah sure...So you come here.....If you are serious about buying a jet you would not come on here....people who are serious know where to find the information.....like oh say aircraft brokers...


I call bullshit on this one
GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7074 times:

Well my dear "Greasespot" i am not that low to reply you and say such things like you said.

The door is open to others who want to say something useful


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7053 times:

As I've had genuine business enquiries through stranger forums than this I'll go along with the enquiry.

If you want to fly "at least 18 people" in a degree of executive comfort and looking at the range involved, you are looking at an A319 or B737 in business jet format.

These can be bought from the manufacturer, both of whom have offices in the UAE.

Another way is to have the jet purchased for you (new or second hand) by an organisation such as Private Jet of Geneva who will offer a turnkey package freeing you from finding pilots, maintenance, hangarage etc.

The numbers to be flown and the range required dictates that you are going to spend in the millions of dollars over a short period to acquire and run the aircraft - then there are the ongoing operating costs.

Do a search on the Boeing and Airbus commercial sites and look at aircraft brokers as well.


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7027 times:

Philb
first of all thank you for your reply

secondly i belive that this forum is a method of sharing websites, for sure i contact Airbus regional office here in Dubai i will contact boeing too. I posted this thread here because i would be happy to get more information and what to take into considereation. Dont forget that me nor you who will decide to buy the aircraft.

As for our present time we are dealing with Royal Jet company, which is based here in Abu Dhabi, we always ask for the 737 BBJ, it is nice and very comfort. One of the senior executives suggested to buy and i was told to do the contacts, thats it no more no less.
if you want i will ask the moderator to delet it


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7022 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 3):
As I've had genuine business enquiries through stranger forums than this I'll go along with the enquiry.

Quite right -- you have no idea who is really sitting at the keyboard.  yes 


User currently offlineORDPIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6995 times:

UAEflyer,
From my experience the ACJ's and BBJ's are the way to go especially on a route like that, a Global express could do the job but from my experience they can get a bit cramped with more than 10 people (cramped in comparison to typical biz jet configurations, still comfortable but it felt like a conference in the sky, thank god it was only a 2 hour hop)

From what i've heard these both run about $30-40 million for the aircraft and the customization can be anywhere from $5 million and up. Getting one of these jets second hand could be very difficult, and in my opinion buying them new is simply the way to go, it is much easier to get it configured to your specifications from the begining, this is based on feedback from my company which has a fleet of Challengers for our use.

Both the ACJ and BBJ are great jets, personally I have used a BBJ more often because they are more readily available for charter when I need it, but from a passenger point of view I can say nothing bad about either of them.

Hope this helps,
ORDPIA



Concorde 146 727 737 73G 742 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 300 319 320 321 343 346 CRJ ERJ ATR ATP CL604 LJ45 LJ60 BD700
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6950 times:

From the Great Circle Mapper, the distance from DXB to LHR is within the Airbus A318 ELITE's range of 4000 NM. The passenger count also falls within the model's specified 14-18 people (Elite or Elite+.) And the accomodation is definitely more spacious than a Global Express or BBD 850 at comparable price.

http://www.airbus.com/en/myairbus/headlinenews/index.jsp

It also has the added advantage of imminent certification for operation into LCY. If the envisioned missions will not require many trips beyond the specified range, then a "green" A318 ELITE at roughly $10M below the ACJ's or BBJ's "green" list price would make a more economical investment for equal comfort levels. Maybe your company could even ask Airbus to fit in additional fuel tanks for a modest range increase.


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[Edited 2006-11-02 19:42:36]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6871 times:

Quoting ORDPIA (Reply 6):
Both the ACJ and BBJ are great jets, personally I have used a BBJ more often because they are more readily available for charter when I need it, but from a passenger point of view I can say nothing bad about either of them.

I always like to listen to someone who have experience

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 7):
the distance from DXB to LHR is within the Airbus A318 ELITE's

This is a very nice suggestion

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 7):
It also has the added advantage of imminent certification for operation into LCY

And most of our meetings are in the Canary Warff, which is few steps from LCY


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

I am not a broker and thus do not know for certain, but if airplanes are anything like cars, you may be able to find a decent and relatively young aircraft for much less than new. With your sepcifications you are definantly looking for a BBJ or ACJ of some sort as others have said. Your company could always make their own from a used 733 and save some  dollarsign   dollarsign  , but the range would be less than a new BBJ. By how much, I don't know; never bought one myself. Big grin

User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 7):
It also has the added advantage of imminent certification for operation into LCY.

UAEFlyer,

I agree that is a strong selling point. With 18 people, you are not going to be happy with something smaller than an A318 or 737, and if you can get into LCY, then you are SO much better off. Trying to get into LHR can be a problem, and if your business is near Canary Wharf, you should insist that the aircraft be LCY ready.

As for buying new or used, you have to answer the question of how fast do you need it. You can probably pick up a used A319 or A318 airliner, send it to the boys in Texas who do the interiors and have it in less than a year. If you buy new, you got to wait in line for the next available slot. That may be several years -- I don't know.

I have been in a couple of the converted airliners that the Silicon Valley moguels have, and I am sure your boss -- whoever he is -- will be very happy with your choice.

If you buy used, get a very reliable broker to help you to choose. There is a lot that you can do wrong in buying an airplane, so get expert advice.


User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 2):
The door is open to others who want to say something useful

That's the way, start arguing with the first post - love it!

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 8):
Canary Warff

Canary Wharf - Tower Hamlets. If you've been there a few times you should surely know how to spell it.

I with you on this one Greasespot.



What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 10):
As for buying new or used, you have to answer the question of how fast do you need it. You can probably pick up a used A319 or A318 airliner, send it to the boys in Texas who do the interiors and have it in less than a year. If you buy new, you got to wait in line for the next available slot. That may be several years -- I don't know.

It was just an idea and it may be fact, they have just asked for pricing, we will meet next time in London at December and by that time i will finish my research
BTW could a non-elite A318 land in LCY??

Quoting Poitin (Reply 10):
If you buy used, get a very reliable broker to help you to choose. There is a lot that you can do wrong in buying an airplane, so get expert advice

This is a must, and thank you for your advice


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6799 times:

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 11):
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 8):
Canary Warff

Canary Wharf - Tower Hamlets. If you've been there a few times you should surely know how to spell it.

I with you on this one Greasespot.

I'd be careful Cumulus, or you may be freezing in the dark this winter. Remember where your oil and gas come from  Big grin

Not all of us speak English as a first lanuage, and I dare you spell something in Arabic.


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

The Embraer Lineage 100 also can do DXB-LHR. With this type of interior configuration you can do 18 people easy:

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...ge1000_interior_configurations.asp

This might be cheaper than the Airbus and the Boeing. I am sure you can find one second hand.

There is an sales office in the UAE. This particular aircraft runs about 30-40 million.


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 13):
lanuage

lol we are equal now, check you language!!


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6780 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 14):
The Embraer Lineage 100 also can do DXB-LHR. With this type of interior configuration you can do 18 people easy:

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...s.asp

Really amazing machine, but i have heard that embraer aircrafts maintenance is bit expensive compared to it counterpart


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6775 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 16):
but i have heard that embraer aircrafts maintenance is bit expensive compared to it counterpart

Yea...my cousin just came over a few minutes ago and he saw the thread and he told me the same thing.

Shokran (I am from Lebanon)  Big grin


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 963 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6765 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 17):
Shokran (I am from Lebanon)

Afwan i am from UAE  Wink


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6759 times:

Aeieh shirkee bidoun tearaat?

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8876 posts, RR: 40
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6724 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 17):
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 16):
but i have heard that embraer aircrafts maintenance is bit expensive compared to it counterpart

Yea...my cousin just came over a few minutes ago and he saw the thread and he told me the same thing.

I don't know that much detail about maintenance, so I can't really comment on it, but as the world wide E-Jets fleet grow, its maintenance cost should come down significantly. Also, it weighs much less than the A318 Elite, which should yield considerable fuel savings as well as airport fees based on weight (I don't know if LHR/LCY have these fees).

Cheers  Smile



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 15):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 13):
lanuage

lol we are equal now, check you language!!

Just being a polite Irishman, I am Big grin Also, it proves one should use the spelling checker.


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 19):
Aeieh shirkee bidoun tearaat?

isn't Arabic supposed to be squiggly?


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6649 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 22):
isn't Arabic supposed to be squiggly?

Yes it is but, I wrote the words in English with Arabic pronociation.


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4650 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6638 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 10):
I agree that is a strong selling point. With 18 people, you are not going to be happy with something smaller than an A318 or 737, and if you can get into LCY, then you are SO much better off. Trying to get into LHR can be a problem, and if your business is near Canary Wharf, you should insist that the aircraft be LCY ready.

Problem might not be getting into LCY, but getting out of LCY with a fuel load for a flight to DXB



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
25 Post contains links DEVILFISH : http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...07%2c+denies+plans+for+larger.html http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...318+makes+mark+at+London+City.html h
26 JRadier : but it shares the same production line with the A319 and A321, wich have pretty big backlogs
27 Cumulus : Russia.
28 Fumanchewd : I have been involved in a few business jet purchases and you have failed to tell us the most important information. How much do they want to spend? No
29 UAEflyer : DEVILFISH Thank you, excellent links As stated before it is just a proposal, nothing will go into action at least for 2 to 3 years Than how much it co
30 Cumulus : Stop mucking about, stick a order in for a A380 with all the kit. Doesn't matter if it doesn't fit into LCY, LHR is just up the road. Alternatively, j
31 DEVILFISH : You're welcome. But I do wonder about your sudden interest in airliner A318 for LCY.
32 Uaeflyer : lol i like it DEVILFISH You will know in the proper time
33 Cumulus : What is that supposed to mean?
34 Post contains images DEVILFISH : Would that perchance be Dubai International Capital and the guy SaA? Or DAE?
35 Supa7E7 : Why not just continue to charter? A319 and 737 are designed to fly 90 hours per week. If you intend to fly 9 hours per week, that is incredibly low us
36 DEVILFISH : If my hunch is correct, you wouldn't be too far off. That may be rather awkward when you're leasing out the aircraft yourself.
37 UAEflyer : You are very close, our offices are somehow in the same district I think you are right, but we will buy the aircraft and will keep it with Royal Jet
38 Post contains images DEVILFISH : Drat, missed again. Tip us off which aircraft you finally buy, and don't forget to post pictures (in & out) when it gets delivered!
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