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What Are The Most Famous Feats Of Airmanship  
User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7368 times:

What are the most famous feats or acts of skilled airmanship? I know sometimes there have even been awards given to pilots for displaying amazing acts or airmanship which saved lives during emergencies. Can anyone share any info on some of these circumstances ? Maybe someone on here actually experienced one of these.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

Well, here are 3 to start.

1. Gimli Glider
2. United 232 at SUX
3. Dash 80 barrel roll.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1983 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7323 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
1. Gimli Glider
2. United 232 at SUX
3. Dash 80 barrel roll

While I am fimilar with the first two selections, does anyone know about this barrel roll? Also the Air Transat 332 that landed in the Azores.



Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7308 times:

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 2):
While I am fimilar with the first two selections, does anyone know about this barrel roll? Also the Air Transat 332 that landed in the Azores.

I didn't count the Transat flight because it was easier to get the aircraft down than it was in Gimli, which relied on the pilot's experience with gliders to slow down and lose altitude.

The barrel roll is quite famous in that it was done by Boeing's chief test pilot and was what really got airline executives interested in switching to jets.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7288 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
The barrel roll is quite famous in that it was done by Boeing's chief test pilot and was what really got airline executives interested in switching to jets.

It was over a boating event near Seattle in 1955. Tex Johnson was the pilot of the, then experimential B-367-80, the prototype for the B-707, B-720, and KC-135. The barrel roll is on film, and it was very impressive to Gen. Curt LeMay, the former CINCSAC and (at the time) AFCOS. He ordered the first 17 KC-135s the next day. Both PA and AA officials also ordered the B-707, within a few weeks, but wanted a wider body then the B-367 had (it could only fit 5 across seating, and AA & PA wanted 6 across).

I might add the Concord EIS as a significant event in airline passenger service, along with the Comet I EIS (although because of the loss of some early BOAC Comets, the B-707 later overshadowed the Comet, which never really recovered).


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7279 times:

-The Transat 330 Gliding incident
-BA009 the 742 with all engines out
-The UA 742 from HNL-AKL where part of the fuselage broke off in flight


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7245 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 5):
-The UA 742 from HNL-AKL where part of the fuselage broke off in flight

Along the same vein, the Aloha 732 that lost 20 feet of its fuselage and had to do a heavy landing in Maui.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSean1234 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 411 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

Gimli Glider is one of the worst for pilot error too.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7230 times:

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 7):
Gimli Glider is one of the worst for pilot error too.

Actually, the main error was with maintainance and the aircraft itself, which had a malfunctioning fuel system. The pilots were new to the type and did not realize that it calculated in metric and not in imperial. The aircraft should have either been pulled from service or the mechanics on the ground should have known to double the amount of fuel they calculated to put on board.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7216 times:

Perhaps not as well known as he might be, Alan Cobham was one of the world's aviation pioneers.

http://www.cobham.com/index.asp?pageID=27&menuID=2_1_3

After his flight to and from Australia, one million people lined the banks of the River Thames to witness his return!


User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

The pilots knew it was in metric, but the charts for the dipsticks were in pounds. they had to convert to KG, then to litres uplift required using an all-in-one chart that was poorly designed. There were schedule pressures as well. This accident wasn't a pilot error lesson, it was a systems/organisation/human error cautionary tale. The energy management skills of the crew, and the great good luck in not running out of fuel five minutes earlier kept them out of the obituaries.

The Azores Air Transat dead stick was cut from the same cloth...but perhaps bad judgement saved by great stick 'n' rudder.

I wonder what the state of ETOPS would be today if either of those twins had crashed?



Jets are for kids
User currently offlineONTFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 380 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7198 times:

Charles Lindbergh
Amelia Earhart
Voyager
PAL 434



Doin' just fine thanks...
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 10):
The Azores Air Transat dead stick was cut from the same cloth...but perhaps bad judgement saved by great stick 'n' rudder.

I wonder what the state of ETOPS would be today if either of those twins had crashed?

The Azores A330 incident happened well after ETOPS had been developed. ETOPS 207 was already in existance at that point. Further, a quad would have faced the same problems.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

How about Howard Hughes' acheivements back in the day??


Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7178 times:

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 10):
The Azores Air Transat dead stick was cut from the same cloth

Wasn't the problem with the Transat A330 a fuel leak -- not a miscalculated fuel load? I remember watching a Nat. Geo. program about this incident wherein it was stated that one of the fuel lines fractured and leaked. One of the results of this incident is that pilots are now warned by the computers if the fuel is being consumed at a rate greater than what the engines are capable of.



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7164 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
The Azores A330 incident happened well after ETOPS had been developed. ETOPS 207 was already in existance at that point. Further, a quad would have faced the same problems.

All true. How would any of that change the possibility that regulators would have had to bow to the vox populi and re-visit ETOPS if an airliner ended up in the water? If the laws didn't change, public perception would have and four engines would have become a sales tool.

The fact that the crew weren't in a quad is kind of a pivotal fact, and any post ditching claims that a 340 would have been at equal risk would have probably missed the point with the travelling public somewhat.



Jets are for kids
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7165 times:
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Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 10):
I wonder what the state of ETOPS would be today if either of those twins had crashed?

A remark that is worthy of a RU award !
The Air Transat would have gone down into some of the deepest seas in the Atlantic. Recovering the wreckage would have been at the very least a long process and long ETOPS could have been affected.
here is , from answers.com a summary of the incident which gets my vote :
22 November 2003: European Air Transport SA)">OO-DLL, operating on behalf of DHL, was hit by an SA-7 'Grail' missile after take-off from Baghdad International Airport. The aeroplane rapidly lost all hydraulic pressure and thus controls. The crew found that after extending the landing gear to create more drag, they could pilot the plane using differences in engine thrust and managed to land the plane with minimal further damage. The plane was later repaired and offered for sale
It gets my vote because knowing that they were too high for an immediate landing, the crew, very coolly, elected to fly a large orbit to come into final, knowing that the fire was raging in the wing and they ran the risk of losing it altogether.
As a last remark, journals of the 2nd WW are full of these stories.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineHardkor From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7160 times:

How about the BAE 111 that depressurized mid-flight over England due to an improperly installed windshield? The most impressive part of that safe landing was that the co-pilot had to work while the pilot was half-sucked out of the cockpit, and survived!
Great example of Piloting skills,
Hardkor


User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):
remark that is worthy of a RU award

Merci beaucoup, Pihero. You are going on mine too, for past posts.



Jets are for kids
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 14):


Wasn't the problem with the Transat A330 a fuel leak -- not a miscalculated fuel load? I remember watching a Nat. Geo. program about this incident wherein it was stated that one of the fuel lines fractured and leaked.

Gimili was a miscalculated load, Transat was indeed a fuel leak

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 15):
All true. How would any of that change the possibility that regulators would have had to bow to the vox populi and re-visit ETOPS if an airliner ended up in the water? If the laws didn't change, public perception would have and four engines would have become a sales tool.

The fact that the crew weren't in a quad is kind of a pivotal fact, and any post ditching claims that a 340 would have been at equal risk would have probably missed the point with the travelling public somewhat.

It was a fuel leak. The general public doesn't give a flying funk about flying a twin or a quad, despite what Virgin Atlantic and Airbus would like you to believe. If that aircraft ended up in the water, it would have been no different than if a leaking quad had ended up in the water.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7138 times:

Also, Apollo 13. In fact, all the manned space missions, of any nationality.

I have a story about a crew that saved an Electra in Canada back in the 80's:

As I understand it, they were westbound near CYQT when the #1 prop shed a blade. The blade speared the #2 prop shaft, severing the #2 prop, which then spun down the side of the fuselage, puncturing it in several places, finally clipping the top six inches or so of the fin for good measure.

The crew were presented with end-of-the-world vibration, power loss of #1 and #2, decompression and a general feeling of discontent. After they got squared away they managed a diversion to YQT, where, somewhere on final approach, they struck a Canada goose in the captain's windscreen, shattering it. They landed without, as they say, further incident. I think that's a good tale of airmanship (or enlightened self-interest), and I sometimes wonder how often that story's been told in bars.

Cheers

Cur.



Jets are for kids
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7135 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
If that aircraft ended up in the water, it would have been no different than if a leaking quad had ended up in the water.

Curmudgeon and I are not discussing the merits of ETOPS, but the fact that without the knowledge of what happened on that flight (as the wreckage would not have been available soon), it would have been listed as double engine failure, therefore posing a big question on twins over water.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7135 times:

Now THATS one for the logbooks!


Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7130 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

(Deleted double post)

[Edited 2006-11-21 10:14:23]


Contrail designer
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7131 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 21):
Curmudgeon and I are not discussing the merits of ETOPS, but the fact that without the knowledge of what happened on that flight (as the wreckage would not have been available soon), it would have been listed as double engine failure, therefore posing a big question on twins over water.

As opposed to a quadruple engine failure had an A340 or 747 been involved? Again, the general public wouldn't have cared one way or another how many engines the aircraft had, rather they would have wondered why it ran out of fuel and would have likely blamed the airline more than the manufacturer or the number of engines.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Pihero : N1120A, I agree that the public would not have cared. Probably. The newspapers might. And surely the certifying authorities, hence those remarks. Once
26 N1120A : I wasn't the one to take this off topic. The assertion that a crash due to fuel leak would have caused problems with certifying authorities is absolu
27 Pihero : And without the wreckage, how would you have known it was fuel starvation ? I could hear the A bashers claiming yet another cover-up. Do you ever lis
28 Post contains links Jonathan-l : DHL A300B4 landing in Baghdad after being hit by a missile http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20031122-0&lang=en
29 Keego : What about the hijacked Ghana Air 767 (I think it was Ghana) The pilot landed it in the drink just by a beach. It was his 3rd hijacking and despite ma
30 Post contains images Curmudgeon : Well, I stand corrected then. Because it's been years since I dealt with a certificating authority or worked in flight test I'll have to take your wo
31 EWRandMDW : Back in the mid 1960s a TWA B707 from California to New York City collided mid-air over Westchester County, NY with an Eastern L1049 Constellation fly
32 Post contains links and images NAV20 : I reckon that the achievement of Alcock and Brown (first nonstop crossing of the Atlantic, in a Vickers Vimy bomber in 1919) takes some beating. It's
33 Sprout5199 : Wright Bros. first powered flight Charles Lindberg's flight across the Atlantic Chuck Yeager's supersonic flight Apollo 13's return to earth(spacemans
34 TPAnx : Surprised that no one's mentioned the DC-10 crash out in the midwest. Plane lost all hydraulics..crew made it to the airport using only the engines to
35 SailorOrion : That WAS UA232, mentioned a couple of times already... SailorOrion
36 Yhz78 : That was actually an Egypt Air flight. Also, in reference to the ETOPS the Gimli Glider happened over the middle of the continent, how should that af
37 CM767 : What about the TA pilots with a double flame out on a 737, they had to land plane on a levy. It was on New Orleans, no major damage to the plane nor i
38 JAM747 : Thanks for this info . I did not hear of this before and always though that charles Linbergh was to first to cross the Atlantic non stop. I wonder wh
39 LTBEWR : I think we should stick to airline operations of the post WWII era here as to the point of these posts. There should be some record of their acts. Som
40 Post contains links CM767 : Actually it was Ethiopian http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19961123-0&lang=en Flight ET961 had taken off from Addis Ababa for a flig
41 Mptpa : In either case, how they managed to the aircraft down safely is pure airmanship. Otherwise, a lot of people would have died.
42 1stfl94 : Also in the Concorde crash in 2000, even though the aircraft was doomed, the pilot managed to save lives on the ground, as the last manouvres he made
43 ZKSUJ : Thats what I thought too. there was a breakage in a pipe or something. Can't remember what exactly went on, haven't seen the documentary in ages but
44 ZBBYLW : Yea thanks for that, i did not know that the 707 was previously revered to as a Dash-80 or that it still is... As for that you are correct. The pilot
45 Bushpilot : Chuck Yeager in the X-1, to be the first one to do it takes balls. Also an incredible feat, I have heard that is the only time a jetliner has managed
46 Lucky42 : Really what makes you think so? My understanding was that the air transat landing was at night with no power...Seems to me it was as difficult as the
47 Post contains images Riyadhnurse : #1 choice United 232 DC-10 crashed @SUX 1989,A true miracle of survival and unshakable confidence and pilot's skills saved many lives,despite cart whe
48 Post contains links GAIsweetGAI : A video of this can be found here (quality isn't the best though): http://www.aeroclubandernos.com/videos.html Scroll down almost to the bottom and l
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