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If Sept. 11 Never Happened...  
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3449 times:
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I was thinking, so many things changed after 9/11/2001 in our industry (for example, end of the SST, Decline of legacy carriers and rise of LCC's...) I was wondering what things would be like if 9/11/2001 did not happen. I saw a thread about this topic but it was from 2003 and I thought that almost 4 years later we might have a diferent perspective on the impact.

Would we be flying supersonic now? Would SWA and West Jet be doing so well? Would RJ's and EMB be so popular with airlines? Then I thought I'd ask here and get some differnt perspectives.

What are your thoughts?


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39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMetroliner From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 1067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3430 times:

we'd be allowed into the cockpit for a while during flight...

on a germanwings a319 last week the flight attendant told me that she'd gladly have let me take the jumpseat were it not for the 'new' regulations. such a shame!

speaking of germanwings and lccs in general, i think they'd have been a big hit, 9/11 or not. easyjet, ryanair and others (notably ba's 'go' franchise) began to grow in a big way before the attacks, and that's just talking about europe - in the u.s.a. you have southwest as the shining example of lccs flourishing.

personally i think lccs, using newer equipment, had the jump on legacy carriers bfore 9/11 - while southwest were buying up 737-700s, legacy carriers operated the 727 (as an example) in droves. rising fuel prices and reduced profitability sadly saw these beautiful jets disappear from the skies almost entirely after 9/11. disaster-accelerated progress...



Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

I think TWA might still be around.

That *#&$^@-ing Karibu agreement was set to expire in 2003. The 9/11 downturn was the pulling of the plug.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineWestJetYQQ From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

How many airlines would Canada have? Would all of those mergers and bankruptcies occurred?

Perhaps JetsGo would still be flying. What about CANADA 3000?!?!?!



Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2364 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3346 times:
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Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
I was thinking, so many things changed after 9/11/2001 in our industry (for example, end of the SST, Decline of legacy carriers and rise of LCC's...) I was wondering what things would be like if 9/11/2001 did not happen.

The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash. Remember, it was grounded for a year prior to 9/11. In the US, legacy carriers started having losses at the turn of the century. But 9/11 certainly increased the troubles in the industry expontentially.

There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11. Just the opposite. LCC's have come and gone since deregulation in '78. LCC's peaked in the mid '90s. The Valujet crash was a devasting blow, and 9/11 finished the job. Southwest is in another league; but other than that, JetBlue is the exception for being a LCC that succeeded after 9/11.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
Would SWA and West Jet be doing so well? Would RJ's and EMB be so popular with airlines?

SWA and WestJet would be doing better if 9/11 never happened. RJ's and EMB would still sell but more routes would still be mainline aircaft like they were prior to 9/11.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 1):
on a germanwings a319 last week the flight attendant told me that she'd gladly have let me take the jumpseat were it not for the 'new' regulations. such a shame!

Such a shame indeed.  sigh 

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 1):
personally i think lccs, using newer equipment, had the jump on legacy carriers bfore 9/11 - while southwest were buying up 737-700s, legacy carriers operated the 727 (as an example) in droves.

Southwest is in another league, they are an exception to the rule. The large majority of LCC's had the oldest equipment of all the airlines. For example, I took a KIWI 727 once that an ex-EA jet.

The 727's lasted so long because they were mostly all paid for. They did their job well, and the airlines liked it. The plane had a nostalgic mystique about it. They could have been retired by the early 90's, as A320s and MD-80s were readily available. But I'm glad they didn't.  biggrin 

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
I think TWA might still be around.

That's possible but not a guarentee. They were in a rebuilding process though and placed aircraft orders throughout the final 3 years. I wish TWA was still around. If nothing else, another 717 operator.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineMetroliner From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 1067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash

yup, not to mention the costly and difficult modifications to tyres and fuel tanks, and the subsequent wane in public confidence and profitability...

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11.

what about the likes of jetblue and frontier? they're doing well, opening up new markets and competing effectively in the post-9/11 climate.



Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
User currently offlineEGBJ From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 498 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Sabena may still be flying.....

User currently offlineSkyGourmet From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

I wonder whether Swissair would still be around?  cloudnine  frown 


Meine dispatcher says there's something wrong mit deine Kabel?
User currently offlineQutaiba From Kuwait, joined Dec 2005, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

1. Goofy upstarts would still entertain us in the news.

2. Most of the issues airlines would still contend with relate to labor costs.

3. Each airline would still think it is 'special' and a trend setter of some sort.

4. The 787 would remain as an idea.

5. Fuel prices won't take much space on the news.



When the tide comes in, all ships will rise
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2445 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

The Boeing 757 would still be in production.

Quoting Qutaiba (Reply 8):
4. The 787 would remain as an idea.

Disagree. Airlines are always interested in something that will lower operational costs.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

If 9/11 hadn't happened:

I'd still be able to go the BA hangar tour.
I'd be able to visit the flightdeck inflight.

Jump-seating would still be allowed.
Some airlines would have kept their 'classic' airliners a bit longer.
Spotters wouldn't be under so much scrutiny from police etc.
There would be a whole lot of carriers still flying that aren't.
Airlines would be more profitable.

In conclusion, life in the aviation world would be different, most of it for the better.
wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2364 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3188 times:
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Quoting Metroliner (Reply 5):
Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash

yup, not to mention the costly and difficult modifications to tyres and fuel tanks, and the subsequent wane in public confidence and profitability...

 checkmark  Yeah it never was viewed the same in the public's mind.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 5):
Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11.

what about the likes of jetblue and frontier? they're doing well, opening up new markets and competing effectively in the post-9/11 climate.

Yes, as I mentioned JetBlue is one of the few to rise out of the ashes of 9/11. Frontier was around for many years before 9/11 but they also have been successful. These airlines have done a good job, both also large operators of the A32X family.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 9):
The Boeing 757 would still be in production.

I don't know about that but I guess it's possible. I thought production ended because every airline who would've bought more 757's pretty much had enough. Not even orders.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 10):
In conclusion, life in the aviation world would be different, most of it for the better.
wrighbrothers

No question about it.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

on the other hand, many airlines started their layoffs in the economical recession of 2001-2003, with airlines like UA for example started to lay off in may, june, and july of 2001. 9/11 simply sped up that process. didnt help any...


agree with everything said above too.



121
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3142 times:

Quoting SkyGourmet (Reply 7):
I wonder whether Swissair would still be around?

han they were practically doomed...bakruptcy would have only been postponed...same for SABENA



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3122 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
SST

Ok, I feel kind of dumb for asking but what is SST?



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineRyan h From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 1551 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week ago) and read 3115 times:

Ansett might still be here, but I think it would have gone broke even if september 11 did not happen.


South Australian Spotter
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 14):
SST

SST=Super Sonic Tranport = Concorde and TU-144.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

The Thousands Standing Around wouldn't have ever been created!!

Im surprised no one has said this yet!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineUsAirways16bwi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1004 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

-No(or not as many) Air Marshalls
-no US/HP merger
- 727s would still be in service with some airlines. and 757s would still be in wide production, with plenty of orders.
-People would be allowed back in cockpits, and down the terminal past security without tickets.
-Most if not all observation decks will be re-opened
-No, (or not as many) LCCs
-PIT would still be a main hub for US
-WN would not be as strong
-Not as many 757s flying transatlantic
-No 787 or 773
.
.
.
.
just a few i can think of for now.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3506 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3014 times:

I think we'd probably have enjoyed some older, noisier birds for a bit longer than we did...we might even have TWA around. I have to wonder if we'd be keeping track of 787 (at least as we know it) development right now...

If nothing else, non-av would be a lot less interesting!  duck 



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2364 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3007 times:
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Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 18):
-No, (or not as many) LCCs

There were many more LCC's in the US before 9/11..

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 18):
No 787 or 773

The 773 was already developed before 9/11. I can't see why Boeing would not push forward with the 787. It would have just as many orders if 9/11 didn't happened.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineReidYYZ From Kyrgyzstan, joined Sep 2005, 536 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Reply 3):
Perhaps JetsGo would still be flying. What about CANADA 3000?!?!?!

Jetsgo came after and as a result of the decline in high end business class expenditures. C3 died Nov. 8th. At just shy of a month after, 9/11 was only the straw that broke a very sick and dying camels' back. I have heard of many tales of 'open chequebook' expenditures at C3. Apparently a great place to work, sadly missed by many.


User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 10 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

I thought AA had already signed the deal to buy TW in June 2001.

EDIT: Forgot to add, Airlines wouldn't be as tough on crew as they are now - there is pretty much no glamour in flying to the Canaries and back in a day, especially since there are little to no perks of the job - other than the job itself  Smile

Still that doesn't stop me flying, god I love it  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours

[Edited 2007-02-04 13:57:44]


Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8455 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2785 times:
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I think we would have been referring to July 5 or March 23 instead. Let's be realistic, the terrorists would have gotten away with something, just on a different date.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

I personally think all these airlines were in trouble way before 9/11, 9/11 has been used to many times as an excuse for "bad" business practise.... and as we can see airlines are still in trouble/shut down even 6 years after 9/11

Cheers,


25 Xjramper : Here's my .02....... I think that we would have been attacked no matter by what means. Security at the airport was under close scrutiny and something
26 Post contains images FRAspotter : If 9/11 never happened than the observation decks at FRA (both T1 and T2 by the McDonalds) would still be open!
27 Elite : Then something else would've happened. They have been trying to attack civilians via airplanes for quite some time now, and if this never happened our
28 Luketenley : PIT would still be a big hub for US Airways PHL wouldn't be as busy and a pain in the butt. Less airline mergers. Non traveling people would be allowe
29 1stfl94 : I don't that a lot would have changed if 9/11 had never happened. Most of the airlines that went bust after 9/11 were well on their way there (Ansett,
30 JamesJimlb : what a great airline that was, i still have they're headphones. that would be so cool to see thoose thing still in production.
31 Post contains images WestJetYQQ : Yes Indeed. I miss the days of more that 2 or 3 majors flying in Canada!
32 ERJ170 : Unfortunately, Midway (JI) would still have dissolved due to bad management...
33 CupraIbiza : If 9/11 had not of happened I would consider flying to USA for a holiday. The stories of the treatment by US Customs has changed that. I fully underst
34 Zrs70 : Has 9/11 not happened, thousands of lives would not have been lost or injured. Milllions of lives would not have been forever altered. And countless s
35 CupraIbiza : I totally agree. I answered the question relating to aviation. You may have confused my answer as trivialising the event.
36 CXfirst : this thread wouldn't be here.... security would be faster...... and easier to get through....which isn't all that good..... how much did it cost for a
37 Scott0305 : Sonic Cruiser, anyone? filler filler
38 Boeing7E7 : Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding....
39 GQfluffy : Not to mention they were faster then all get-out. I remember a pilot once told me that he had a block time from SLC to HLN in a DL 727 that was just
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