YYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 810 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 2345 times:
I was thinking, so many things changed after 9/11/2001 in our industry (for example, end of the SST, Decline of legacy carriers and rise of LCC's...) I was wondering what things would be like if 9/11/2001 did not happen. I saw a thread about this topic but it was from 2003 and I thought that almost 4 years later we might have a diferent perspective on the impact.
Would we be flying supersonic now? Would SWA and West Jet be doing so well? Would RJ's and EMB be so popular with airlines? Then I thought I'd ask here and get some differnt perspectives.
Metroliner From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 1058 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 2326 times:
we'd be allowed into the cockpit for a while during flight...
on a germanwings a319 last week the flight attendant told me that she'd gladly have let me take the jumpseat were it not for the 'new' regulations. such a shame!
speaking of germanwings and lccs in general, i think they'd have been a big hit, 9/11 or not. easyjet, ryanair and others (notably ba's 'go' franchise) began to grow in a big way before the attacks, and that's just talking about europe - in the u.s.a. you have southwest as the shining example of lccs flourishing.
personally i think lccs, using newer equipment, had the jump on legacy carriers bfore 9/11 - while southwest were buying up 737-700s, legacy carriers operated the 727 (as an example) in droves. rising fuel prices and reduced profitability sadly saw these beautiful jets disappear from the skies almost entirely after 9/11. disaster-accelerated progress...
TrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2099 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 2242 times:
Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter): I was thinking, so many things changed after 9/11/2001 in our industry (for example, end of the SST, Decline of legacy carriers and rise of LCC's...) I was wondering what things would be like if 9/11/2001 did not happen.
The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash. Remember, it was grounded for a year prior to 9/11. In the US, legacy carriers started having losses at the turn of the century. But 9/11 certainly increased the troubles in the industry expontentially.
There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11. Just the opposite. LCC's have come and gone since deregulation in '78. LCC's peaked in the mid '90s. The Valujet crash was a devasting blow, and 9/11 finished the job. Southwest is in another league; but other than that, JetBlue is the exception for being a LCC that succeeded after 9/11.
Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter): Would SWA and West Jet be doing so well? Would RJ's and EMB be so popular with airlines?
SWA and WestJet would be doing better if 9/11 never happened. RJ's and EMB would still sell but more routes would still be mainline aircaft like they were prior to 9/11.
Quoting Metroliner (Reply 1): on a germanwings a319 last week the flight attendant told me that she'd gladly have let me take the jumpseat were it not for the 'new' regulations. such a shame!
Such a shame indeed.
Quoting Metroliner (Reply 1): personally i think lccs, using newer equipment, had the jump on legacy carriers bfore 9/11 - while southwest were buying up 737-700s, legacy carriers operated the 727 (as an example) in droves.
Southwest is in another league, they are an exception to the rule. The large majority of LCC's had the oldest equipment of all the airlines. For example, I took a KIWI 727 once that an ex-EA jet.
The 727's lasted so long because they were mostly all paid for. They did their job well, and the airlines liked it. The plane had a nostalgic mystique about it. They could have been retired by the early 90's, as A320s and MD-80s were readily available. But I'm glad they didn't.
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2): I think TWA might still be around.
That's possible but not a guarentee. They were in a rebuilding process though and placed aircraft orders throughout the final 3 years. I wish TWA was still around. If nothing else, another 717 operator.
PC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2241 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2150 times:
The Boeing 757 would still be in production.
Quoting Qutaiba (Reply 8): 4. The 787 would remain as an idea.
Disagree. Airlines are always interested in something that will lower operational costs.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
Wrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2119 times:
If 9/11 hadn't happened:
I'd still be able to go the BA hangar tour.
I'd be able to visit the flightdeck inflight.
Jump-seating would still be allowed.
Some airlines would have kept their 'classic' airliners a bit longer.
Spotters wouldn't be under so much scrutiny from police etc.
There would be a whole lot of carriers still flying that aren't.
Airlines would be more profitable.
In conclusion, life in the aviation world would be different, most of it for the better.
wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
TrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2099 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2084 times:
Quoting Metroliner (Reply 5): Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash
yup, not to mention the costly and difficult modifications to tyres and fuel tanks, and the subsequent wane in public confidence and profitability...
Yeah it never was viewed the same in the public's mind.
Quoting Metroliner (Reply 5): Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11.
what about the likes of jetblue and frontier? they're doing well, opening up new markets and competing effectively in the post-9/11 climate.
Yes, as I mentioned JetBlue is one of the few to rise out of the ashes of 9/11. Frontier was around for many years before 9/11 but they also have been successful. These airlines have done a good job, both also large operators of the A32X family.
Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 9): The Boeing 757 would still be in production.
I don't know about that but I guess it's possible. I thought production ended because every airline who would've bought more 757's pretty much had enough. Not even orders.
Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 10): In conclusion, life in the aviation world would be different, most of it for the better.
wrighbrothers
HighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1236 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2040 times:
on the other hand, many airlines started their layoffs in the economical recession of 2001-2003, with airlines like UA for example started to lay off in may, june, and july of 2001. 9/11 simply sped up that process. didnt help any...
agree with everything said above too.
Professional people mover. A to B. CL-65 Type; CFI/CFII/MEI/AGI/IGI
JetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1613 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2018 times:
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1927 times:
UsAirways16bwi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1003 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1920 times:
-No(or not as many) Air Marshalls
-no US/HP merger
- 727s would still be in service with some airlines. and 757s would still be in wide production, with plenty of orders.
-People would be allowed back in cockpits, and down the terminal past security without tickets.
-Most if not all observation decks will be re-opened
-No, (or not as many) LCCs
-PIT would still be a main hub for US
-WN would not be as strong
-Not as many 757s flying transatlantic
-No 787 or 773
.
.
.
.
just a few i can think of for now.
Gunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3462 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1910 times:
I think we'd probably have enjoyed some older, noisier birds for a bit longer than we did...we might even have TWA around. I have to wonder if we'd be keeping track of 787 (at least as we know it) development right now...
If nothing else, non-av would be a lot less interesting!
TrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2099 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1903 times:
The 773 was already developed before 9/11. I can't see why Boeing would not push forward with the 787. It would have just as many orders if 9/11 didn't happened.
ReidYYZ From Kyrgyzstan, joined Sep 2005, 536 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1756 times:
Quoting WestJetYQQ (Reply 3): Perhaps JetsGo would still be flying. What about CANADA 3000?!?!?!
Jetsgo came after and as a result of the decline in high end business class expenditures. C3 died Nov. 8th. At just shy of a month after, 9/11 was only the straw that broke a very sick and dying camels' back. I have heard of many tales of 'open chequebook' expenditures at C3. Apparently a great place to work, sadly missed by many.
FlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 11 Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1719 times:
I thought AA had already signed the deal to buy TW in June 2001.
EDIT: Forgot to add, Airlines wouldn't be as tough on crew as they are now - there is pretty much no glamour in flying to the Canaries and back in a day, especially since there are little to no perks of the job - other than the job itself
Still that doesn't stop me flying, god I love it
Phil
FlyingColours
[Edited 2007-02-04 13:57:44]
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
Andz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8298 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1681 times:
I think we would have been referring to July 5 or March 23 instead. Let's be realistic, the terrorists would have gotten away with something, just on a different date.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
Swissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1677 times:
I personally think all these airlines were in trouble way before 9/11, 9/11 has been used to many times as an excuse for "bad" business practise.... and as we can see airlines are still in trouble/shut down even 6 years after 9/11
Cheers,
25 Xjramper: Here's my .02....... I think that we would have been attacked no matter by what means. Security at the airport was under close scrutiny and something
26 FRAspotter: If 9/11 never happened than the observation decks at FRA (both T1 and T2 by the McDonalds) would still be open!
27 Elite: Then something else would've happened. They have been trying to attack civilians via airplanes for quite some time now, and if this never happened our
28 Luketenley: PIT would still be a big hub for US Airways PHL wouldn't be as busy and a pain in the butt. Less airline mergers. Non traveling people would be allowe
29 1stfl94: I don't that a lot would have changed if 9/11 had never happened. Most of the airlines that went bust after 9/11 were well on their way there (Ansett,
30 JamesJimlb: what a great airline that was, i still have they're headphones. that would be so cool to see thoose thing still in production.
31 WestJetYQQ: Yes Indeed. I miss the days of more that 2 or 3 majors flying in Canada!
32 ERJ170: Unfortunately, Midway (JI) would still have dissolved due to bad management...
33 CupraIbiza: If 9/11 had not of happened I would consider flying to USA for a holiday. The stories of the treatment by US Customs has changed that. I fully underst
34 Zrs70: Has 9/11 not happened, thousands of lives would not have been lost or injured. Milllions of lives would not have been forever altered. And countless s
35 CupraIbiza: I totally agree. I answered the question relating to aviation. You may have confused my answer as trivialising the event.
36 CXfirst: this thread wouldn't be here.... security would be faster...... and easier to get through....which isn't all that good..... how much did it cost for a
37 Scott0305: Sonic Cruiser, anyone? filler filler
39 GQfluffy: Not to mention they were faster then all get-out. I remember a pilot once told me that he had a block time from SLC to HLN in a DL 727 that was just
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Yeah it never was viewed the same in the public's mind.
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