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SkyTeam - Who's Next?  
User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 775 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

With OneWorld bringing on JAL, Malev and Royal Jordanian, got me to thinking that SkyTeam still has some gaps to fill. Mainly South America and Australia and Asia.

To me Avianca (codeshares presently with DL, IB, Taca and Mexicana) makes sense. An extended code share with DL would seem to help Avianca grow and gain access to more customers but the drawback would be the business with IB. Mexicana and Taca codeshares could be replaced with AeroMexico and associate SkyTeam member Copa.

Also, what about Gol, could they be a candidate - no international but codeshared with someone like DL or AF could offer an entrance into some International destinations.

South Pacific - don't know there - maybe Virgin Blue if they decide to make a run to the US, Korea or Japan could be a candidate? Otherwise, I believe it will be a hole for a while. Any thoughts?

Asia - obivous choice for me would be China Southern and Air India for connections and entrant to large population of growing travelers.

Anybody else?


GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2382 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
To me Avianca (codeshares presently with DL, IB, Taca and Mexicana) makes sense. An extended code share with DL would seem to help Avianca grow and gain access to more customers

I just posted a thread about the enhanced code share agreement between DL and AV and I was thinking the same thing.

Also, remember that AV's group is also owner of OceanAir in Brazil, which will also be helpful filling the gap that Skyteam has on Brazil. Besides, OceanAir will become AV in a few months based on the comments made by the President of the group.



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineCessna057 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 439 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

I think Air India would be a good choice. If only SQ wasnt on the dark side...they would be the best with their long haul service out of the hub of the east.


Hold it . . . Hold it . . . HOLD THE FREAKIN NOSE UP!!
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
South Pacific - don't know there - maybe Virgin Blue if they decide to make a run to the US, Korea or Japan could be a candidate? Otherwise, I believe it will be a hole for a while. Any thoughts?

Korean Airlines is already a member and covers N. Asia quite well.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
Asia - obivous choice for me would be China Southern and Air India for connections and entrant to large population of growing travelers.

An Indian carrier such as Jet, AI or other would be helpful.

South East Asia and Oceana is where the hole in the route structure is. China Southern does not fill this very well outside of mainland China (due to their service levels, especially in J).

MH (relations with KL, CO, NW and DL already) has long been rumored to join Skyteam, but was allegedly blackballed by AF.

The middle-east is also largely a service void in the system and MEA does little to fill the gap. The addition of RJ to OW could open up EK to the possibility of joining an alliance such as ST as they have FF program relations with many of the current members.


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

KE is a member of Skyteam. It is a major airline with an extensive route network. KE is Skyteam's anchor in Asia. However, I agree with you that Skyteam should try to enlist other Asian airlines. I do not know which airline would be a strong candidate since so many different factors are taken into consideration.

In South America, I think that Skyteam would choose TAM before AV. TAM codeshares with AF. TAM has a strong domestic network in Brazil and it is expanding internationally. AM is already in Skyteam. If TAM joined, Skyteam would include major airlines of the two largest countries in Latin America.

In Africa, I guess that KQ, which is allied with KL, would be the prime candidate to join Skyteam. KQ, ET, and SA are considered the best airlines in Africa. SA joined Star Aliance. Of course, ET may be another candidate for Skyteam or One World.


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 3):
Korean Airlines is already a member and covers N. Asia quite well.

Sorry for the confusion, I was just saying that if Virgin Blue expanded internationally it would help to have destinations out of Australia to both the US & Korea/Japan.

Africa - KQ is an associate member, what would it take to help push them to a full fledged member? They have made some pretty significant investments in some T7's recently and the 9 orders for 787's.

Emirates and MH have long been rumored. With DL going to DXB now starting May 1st and EK stating an expansion to N. America could this be the beginning to a codeshare agreement and future SkyTeam alliance with EK? Also, with DL and CO now in India AI would make sense.
MH, I have heard of the rumors of AF blackballing MH, but why? Anybody?

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 4):
In South America, I think that Skyteam would choose TAM before AV. TAM codeshares with AF. TAM has a strong domestic network in Brazil and it is expanding internationally. AM is already in Skyteam. If TAM joined, Skyteam would include major airlines of the two largest countries in Latin America.

Yes, I know AM is already in SkyTeam. Presently AV has a codeshare with Mexicana, if AV should join SkyTeam I am sure that the codeshare would be severed and they could have an agreement with AeroMexico. Also, TAM would be a very interesting addition but they have agreements with AA in N. America. I do not which they have a stronger tie to - AF or AA. I believe that would dictate to some degree which alliance they would choose - if they do choose an alliance at all.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2382 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 4):
In South America, I think that Skyteam would choose TAM before AV. TAM codeshares with AF. TAM has a strong domestic network in Brazil and it is expanding internationally. AM is already in Skyteam. If TAM joined, Skyteam would include major airlines of the two largest countries in Latin America.

Must definitely, but AV has its strengths too: The Brazlian market covered with OceanAir but also most of the rest of South America better than TAM. Once OceanAir becomes AV will include some routes in Africa in AV's map routes, another plus.

Also, AV's hub BOG is in excellent geographical position for connections and its on the process of a big overhaul of US$650 million.
Besides, AV codeshares with TA and MX (Mexico and Central America) and also with AF, AC, DL and IB)



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4871 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3294 times:
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Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
Emirates and MH have long been rumored. With DL going to DXB now starting May 1st and EK stating an expansion to N. America could this be the beginning to a codeshare agreement and future SkyTeam alliance with EK? Also, with DL and CO now in India AI would make sense.

I don't think EK is in any rush to join any alliance; they're like VS..they don't believe they need to be in an alliance to do well. The relationship with DL has also cooled since EK is leaving the DL FF program.

AI will probably end up in Star as it already has a pretty tight relationship with LH.


User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

SkyTeam Signs Agreements With Three Associate Airline Candidates

Friday February 2, 10:00 am ET

Air Europa, Copa Airlines and Kenya Airways Reinforce Commitment to Join Alliance

MADRID, NAIROBI, Kenya and PANAMA CITY, Feb. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- SkyTeam, the global airline alliance, has signed agreements with three airlines -- Air Europa, Copa Airlines and Kenya Airways --indicating the carriers are on track for official Associate Airline status. The agreements are a formal step in the alliance's Associate process and outline the carriers' commitment to meet the standards to be recognized as official Associate Airlines.

Fyano


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4871 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3271 times:
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Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 8):
Air Europa, Copa Airlines and Kenya Airways Reinforce Commitment to Join Alliance

Interesting that there is no mention of Tarom, the fourth carrier mentioned initially as a candidate for the Associate program....IIRC, Tarom was being sponsored by AZ.


User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

China Southern is going to join the alliance very shortly

User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
MH, I have heard of the rumors of AF blackballing MH, but why? Anybody?

Apparently AF makes a lot of money codesharing with QF to Australia. They feel if MH entered SkyTeam the relationship with QF would have to be dissolved.



/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22718 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 8):
Air Europa, Copa Airlines and Kenya Airways Reinforce Commitment to Join Alliance

I was just going to ask about CM... you beat me to it (and they help a lot with LatAm coverage).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2181 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
Interesting that there is no mention of Tarom, the fourth carrier mentioned initially as a candidate for the Associate program....IIRC, Tarom was being sponsored by AZ.

Nor of MEA for that matter. I heard Tarom were reconsidering their choice of which alliance to join. The fact that there is much uncertainty around Alitalia must not help either.


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3123 times:
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Emirates or Gulf Air would be a great choice... wait and see....


El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineSkyone From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
I was just going to ask about CM... you beat me to it (and they help a lot with LatAm coverage).

I was also abouth to ask what about the skyteam gap in latin and southamerica. If Oneworld has Lan, Skyteam has Copa and Star has Va...., ups, those are the ones who need a new southamerican partner.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
got me to thinking that SkyTeam still has some gaps to fill. Mainly South America and Australia and Asia.

There you go, Southamerica covered for Skyteam with the Americas Hub in Tocumen, Panama. Great airline and now you can get to southamerica from Mexico without going through the US, jejeje. So this solves the Southamerica problem for Skyteam, no more gaps in this continent.

[Edited 2007-02-02 17:38:50]

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting Skyone (Reply 15):
There you go, Southamerica covered for Skyteam with the Americas Hub in Tocumen, Panama. Great airline and now you can get to southamerica from Mexico without going through the US, jejeje. So this solves the Southamerica problem for Skyteam, no more gaps in this continent.

The only draw-back for Southamericans with CM in SkyTeam would be that in order to fly SkyTeam between SCL/EZE and GRU/GIG, plus between LIM and GRU/GIG/SCL/EZE a big detour via PTY will be needed, still currently there's some minimal CM LIM<>GRU/GIG traffic.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSilver764 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Emirates recently stated that were not interested in join an alliance. I'll see if I can find the link..

User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
The only draw-back for Southamericans with CM in SkyTeam would be that in order to fly SkyTeam between SCL/EZE and GRU/GIG, plus between LIM and GRU/GIG/SCL/EZE a big detour via PTY will be needed, still currently there's some minimal CM LIM<>GRU/GIG traffic.

Exactly, intra-continental is the void. Someone such as Avianca, Tam or Gol would have to fill that void. As much as I like CM and fly them often on business to Maracaibo, San Salvador, San Jose and such you cannot efficiently fly from Lima to Buenos Aires via PTY.

Tarom I suspect is waiting to see what is going to happen to their sponsor, AZ. Besides that they are next door to Czech Airlines. I would think they compete for customers on a constant basis. That is the one associate mentioned beforehand that never made sense to me.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Quoting Silver764 (Reply 17):
Emirates recently stated that were not interested in join an alliance.

Honestly...I cannot see Emirates going sky team. I don't think they are sky team material. I can see them however as one world or as a strech, Star Alliance.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineAI From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2968 times:

Lots of people above have mentioned AI being a nice catch for skyteam.

AI has extensive arrangements with LH (including code share, FFP) & have lots of activities in FRA. There was a strong rumour that a formal announcement regarding AI joining star alliance would be made in Dec (2006). For reasons still unknown, there was no announcement made.

There have also been reports that skyteam have invited IC (Indian) to join skyteam. AI & IC are merging according to govt of India plans. the merger process is due to start from March 2007 & will be completed by middle - end of 2008.

So even though it was almost certain a few months ago that AI would join star alliance, now I wouldnt be surprised if somehow things have changed in last couple of months.

AI.


User currently onlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2540 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 6):
Must definitely, but AV has its strengths too: The Brazlian market covered with OceanAir but also most of the rest of South America better than TAM. Once OceanAir becomes AV will include some routes in Africa in AV's map routes, another plus.

Now that Copa is confirmed as an associate member for Skyteam, it is more likely that AV will join Star. The word is that both AV and AR have been in talks with this alliance (a short report in the travel section of the british newspaper The Independent). Between the two, they would cover southAmerica pretty well. I would like to see RG return to Star, but it seems now that it will go the LAN way.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2938 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
(codeshares presently with DL, IB, Taca and Mexicana)

AC also, and interlining and FF agreements with AF.

Quoting Skyone (Reply 15):
Great airline and now you can get to southamerica from Mexico without going through the US, jejeje

Yes, great airline. Only you have been able to get from Mexico to South America without stopping in the US for a while actually...AV, AR, MX, AM and LA have a great deal of SAm destinations from MEX.

For me, the next will be MH. Maybe AV, ME (i think they are already in the process). I would also say Ukraine International could be an interesting associate...



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2882 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 4):
In South America, I think that Skyteam would choose TAM before AV. TAM codeshares with AF. TAM has a strong domestic network in Brazil and it is expanding internationally. AM is already in Skyteam. If TAM joined, Skyteam would include major airlines of the two largest countries in Latin America.



Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 18):
Exactly, intra-continental is the void. Someone such as Avianca, Tam or Gol would have to fill that void.

I doubt about Tam in an alliance. But Avianca and Gol could become THE player SkyTeam is looking for in South America. Each one has advantages and limits. Gol is strong in Brazil and South Cone (mainly Argentina), Avianca is strong in the north of South America, keep a growing network in Brazil, but it lacks a strong south cone activity.

Gol is now looking for RG and it could also drive them in the direction of an alliance shortly.

IMO a future Gol/Varig goes to Star Alliance and Avianca to SkyTeam. And in one or two years, Tam will realize they need an alliance.. it could be too late.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineContinental123 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2871 times:

I say get rid of TAROM. They will do nothing for us and go for maybe El Al or Air India.

25 DeltaDAWG : I like Air India but El Al is too political. Invite them in and could have repercussions. Besides, El Al's addition would not bring a lot of new rout
26 9MMAR : MH. Hopefully someone/something can bring them justice. I just don't understand why would a Skytrax's 5 Star carrier with extensive network in South E
27 Norcal773 : Wasn't KQ supposed to be joining Skyteam?
28 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = More than CM, AV would make a much better fit for Skyteam. AVs service is usually a notch higher than CM anyways. However, CM (CO sponsored) is mor
29 JamesJimlb : is qauntas open? or are they oneworld?
30 DeltaDAWG : Qantas is OneWorld. I would believe they have no reason to leave, but maybe some a.netters down under could have some insight into that? If somebody l
31 Burnsie28 : China Southern is a likely canidate. I would see Jet Airways over Air India any day. MH, once AF gets its panties out of a waud. Kenya Airways is also
32 Post contains links CPH757 : CZ is not just a candidate. They have been in the proces of joining since 2004, and it is supposed to happen this year. http://www.skyteam.com/EN/abo
33 Post contains images Continental123 : I'd like to see VS join to open routes from UK. Also, it'd be cool to see WN join us
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