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WBC - KL Or NW?  
User currently offlineAndriyko From Ukraine, joined Jan 2007, 49 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

To those who have experienced both KL and NW World Business Class. Granted the price is the same, which one to chose?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

I flew KL WBC on:
- AMS-LAX-AMS (multiple)
- AMS-ATL
- AMS-ORD-AMS (multiple)
- AMS-SFO
- AMS-YVR
- AMS-EWR
- AMS-IAH
- AMS-MSP-AMS (multiple)
and NW:
- AMS-DTW
- DTW-AMS (multiple)
- MSP-AMS (multiple)

Too be honest I don't think there is much of a difference, with the exception that KL will give you a small Delft Blue house. Food is good, seats are comfy, except for KL B767, but KL only has 2 left in the fleet and they will be retired next month. For m-class it's a different story, KL is a big winner in my opinion.

For more information see also the topic in Polls and Preferences:
Business Class: NW A333 Or KL A332? (by HT Feb 11 2007 in Aviation Polls & Prefs)

 

[Edited 2007-02-18 09:43:57]

User currently offlineRogerbcn From Andorra, joined Sep 2006, 1194 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

Hola!

I have flown both recently.

KL: AMS-YUL MD11 (Aug. 2006)
YUL-AMS B777

NW: AMS-SEA-AMS A332 (Dec. 2006)

I have to say that I find them to be more o less the same. Being a European I found service to be slightly better on KL. Seats were as comfortable on all flights; be aware that the MD11 has the old type of seats for WBC: less recline and old AVOD system.

If I had to choose one I'd go for the B777; it is just a personal crush on them.

Salut!

Roger



"At reise er at leve" H.C. Andersen (Travelling is Living)
User currently offlineAndriyko From Ukraine, joined Jan 2007, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

Greatly appreciated!

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Both products are supposed to be identical......and from my experience, KL and NW are equal. A lot does depend upon the crew, in general NW crews seem bit more casual-friendly where KL crews go the professional-reserved route, but again, it varies from flight to flight.

I think that the NW A330s and KL A332s offer the best all around product....2+2+2 seating and all of the newer IFE technology. Although I prefer Boeing aircraft and will go out of my way to catch a 777 flight, KL's 2+3+2 WBC seating on the 777 is behind the time and, in my opinion, unacceptable. A middle seat in J class....that sucks, plus it makes the entire J class cabin feet crowded. KL is not making a lot of friends with its WBC configuration on the 777 (which flies its most premium routes) and the sad news is that the new 773ERs will have the same layout.


User currently offlineLite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
A lot does depend upon the crew,

I couldn't agree with you more on that one. I generally prefer to take European carriers on longhaul flights, predominantly because their crews generally seem to take more pride in their service and appearance. I use the word generally because there are bad eggs at every airline in customer facing roles, but American carriers seem to put their most senior crews on longhaul flights, and on many occasions they are so senior they don't feel any need to provide good customer service.


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
777 flight, KL's 2+3+2 WBC seating on the 777 is behind the time and, in my opinion, unacceptable. A middle seat in J class....that sucks, plus it makes the entire J class cabin feet crowded.

There are not too many operators that have a J or C)-class 2+2+2 in a T7 ...
Sofar I have experienced this on DL only; the only other airline I have found is CO ( and some T7' s of SQ).
So, 7-abreast seems to be more the norm as 6-abreast ?
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1736 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting Andriyko (Thread starter):
Granted the price is the same, which one to chose?

I prefer the WBC seat on NW. However KLM wins every other aspect. This is an extract from a trip report I did a while back comparing both KLM's 777 WBC to NW's A330 WBC.

Ah, the joy of KLM! I have always loved the airline from the first time I stepped onboard one of their aircrafts three years ago. They have become my carrier of choice across the Atlantic and their cabin crew never ceases to amaze me. The KLM flight attendants always have a smile on their face and take pride in looking after their passengers. Service is a very important part of a flight for me and KLM has this art down to a tee. The food was excellent as always and the PTV was fantastic. I cannot describe how excellent it truly is. The new WBC seat on the other hand, KLM what were you thinking? 2-3-2 is a set up for failure to begin with; as no respectable airline with a premium Business Class sets it up this way. The lack of privacy was also a drawback for me. I am sorry to say, but NWA wins the seat category. KLM may be better in every other aspect; but they have quite a ways to go before they can match the competition when it comes to new generation business class seats. KLM, I hope you realize your mistake and rectify it as soon as possible. It seems such a shame to waste such a good product like this. While KL may not have that great of a seat, they still win the battle as they offer better amenities.

Hope this is of some help to you.

SR 103


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 7):
The new WBC seat on the other hand, KLM what were you thinking? 2-3-2 is a set up for failure to begin with; as no respectable airline with a premium Business Class sets it up this way.

Please help update my mind: Which airlines flying B777´s across the Atlantic apart from DL and CO have a 6-abreast seating in Business Class ?
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1736 posts, RR: 39
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 8):
Which airlines flying B777´s across the Atlantic apart from DL and CO have a 6-abreast seating in Business Class ?

There is something you have to keep in mind. The other airlines that offer 2-3-2 business class seating all have a First Class cabin. KLM on the other hand does not hence my comment. To make a fair comparison, you have to compare two class operators against other two class operators. Here is a brief list for you of airlines that fly 777's across the Atlantic:

2-2-2:
Air New Zealand, Alitalia, Continental, and Delta

2-3-2:*
Air France, Air India, American Airlines, EL AL, Emirates, KLM, Kuwait Airways and United
*All carriers here operate a First Class cabin with the exception of KLM.

2-4-2:
British Airways does have a First Class Cabin

SR 103


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Thanks for the overview.

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 9):
There is something you have to keep in mind. The other airlines that offer 2-3-2 business class seating all have a First Class cabin.

But as a customer, I am looking into prices and so I compare Business Class with Business Class, but not with First Class (= usually considerable differences in price) ...
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1736 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 10):
But as a customer, I am looking into prices and so I compare Business Class with Business Class, but not with First Class (= usually considerable differences in price) ...

I agree, hence my disappointment with the 2-3-2 selection by KLM. I think you misunderstood what I was saying above. I am not comparing Business Class to First Class. All airlines that have a 2-2-2 have no First Class thus making Business Class their "premium zone." All airlines that offer 2-3-2(with the exception of KLM) have a First Class which they consider their "premium zone." Thats why I believe KLM should have adopted a 2-2-2 layout rather than a 2-3-2 layout.

SR 103


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 11):

Okay. Understood.
And I just managed to read through that massive and very well written TR that you wrote on your AF-experience IAH-CDG-BOM. Copies my experience I had with old C-class on AF ATL-CDG though I was comparing them to DL´s B/E (all flights about 1 year ago).
Will compare to KL A332 and NW A333 in April/May this year, if I am not forced to cancel again (I am already getting a history for this).
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
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