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Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlines  
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3742 posts, RR: 12
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10255 times:
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There was once a topic why no US airlines are operating the B777-300 aircraft. Since then I thought of other Boeing aircraft which never flew with US airlines.

I think of these three that never flew with US airlines:

Boeing 737-600
Reason: too heavy for its size (I think that's why Continental decided not to buy it) and too high CASM

Boeing 747-300
Reason: the 400 variant was announced just two years after the 300 entered service, Northwest launched it and United followed not long after, they only two US carriers operating large fleets of 747's to the Pacific Rim, so the 300 wasn't appealing to the US majors.

Boeing 777-300/300ER
300 non ER
Reason: the US majors don't need high capacity aircraft on domestic routes, they need increased frequency on their major trunk routes.
300 ER
Reason: it is offered only with GE engines. NW and UA would have considered buying it if it was offered with PW engines. The only airline I see buying that one is CO but they don't really need it for the markets they cover in their worldwide network.

Can you think of other Boeing aircraft which were never ordered by US airlines? I don't see any others besides the three above.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium


Ben Soriano
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10237 times:

747-200SR Only flew with NH and JL.

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
300 ER
Reason: it is offered only with GE engines. NW and UA would have considered buying it if it was offered with PW engines. The only airline I see buying that one is CO but they don't really need it for the markets they cover in their worldwide network.

UA and NW's 744s are aging quite fast and so far they are not interested in the 747-8. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly change their position of PW-only engines and order the GE 777-300ER.....

[Edited 2007-03-20 18:22:40]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6837 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10212 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 1):
7-200SR Only flew with NH and JL

I believe it was designed especially for them; wasn't wanted or needed by anyone else. The 787-300 seems to be following in its footsteps (or tiremarks).



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10195 times:

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
300 ER
Reason: it is offered only with GE engines. NW and UA would have considered buying it if it was offered with PW engines.

Where did you get that idea from? NW and UA didn't order it because they didn't need it. If they need the plane and it only has GE engines, well guess what...UA and NW are using GE engines.


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10195 times:

The 747-400ER comes to mind, since Qantas is the only operater of the type. The 757-200M (a combi version) is only operated by Royal Nepal Airlines, in fact only one was ever produced. 737-700C's fly in the United States, but not with airlines. The US Navy Reserve operates them, and they are replacing aging C-9B Skytrains.

User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10128 times:

The 747-400D is only flown within Asia (and I think more specifically Japan) if I'm not mistaken.

User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

There is also no US airline flying this version of the Boeing 767-300, (B767-3BG) which was I think the newest version available.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0573943/L/


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9968 times:

The 2707  airplane 

The 787-3 is one (for the moment)


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8664 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 6):
(B767-3BG)

BG belongs to flightlease according to Boeing codes. So AA, UA, NA, DL fly the 763ER.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8664 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9934 times:

No airline in the US has flown a C 747 model in pax config. They've flown them in (F) configs.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6837 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9921 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 7):
The 2707

Considering that it never flew, it's not all that surprising.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9908 times:

I think it's a safe bet we'll never see THIS plane operated by a U.S. airline:


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Photo © Martin Fenner




Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9908 times:

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 6):
There is also no US airline flying this version of the Boeing 767-300, (B767-3BG) which was I think the newest version available.

That would be considered a 767-300 of which there are many US carriers that operate it. Unlike Airbus the last two characters of the aircraft model are operator specific. For example DL is always 32, so a 777-200 with delta would be the 777-232 which is no different it is just delta's. CO is 24 UA is 22 Singapore is 12 when Boeing ran out of numbers they started using letters too. The identifier does stay with the airplane though like for example the 767s that delta has from gulf air are different identifiers than the ones that they bought. I identifier is used when it rolls of the line and it stays with it. I will put the disclaimer here that this is how I understand the system it may or may not be totaly correct if someone knows differently.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9829 times:

You can add the B747-100SR, B747-100SR/SUD, B747-200SR and B747-300SR- at least in passenger service although a 100FSR is currently with Kalitta Air and, of course, NASA's second Shuttle carrier is a 100SR.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9829 times:

Quote:
That would be considered a 767-300 of which there are many US carriers that operate it. Unlike Airbus the last two characters of the aircraft model are operator specific. For example DL is always 32, so a 777-200 with delta would be the 777-232 which is no different it is just delta's. CO is 24 UA is 22 Singapore is 12 when Boeing ran out of numbers they started using letters too. The identifier does stay with the airplane though like for example the 767s that delta has from gulf air are different identifiers than the ones that they bought. I identifier is used when it rolls of the line and it stays with it. I will put the disclaimer here that this is how I understand the system it may or may not be totaly correct if someone knows differently.

You are indeed correct in your point. After the Boeing model number is a three digit designation. The first number indicates the particular type of that model, and the second and third number and/or letter combination indicate the customer that this plane was made for.

A 767-222 indicates that the product is a -200 model (the first 2), and the second and third two's indicate United Airlines. A 767-231 would indicate a -200 model for TWA (31).

However, sometimes an airline cancels an order for airplanes and ends up re-selling them to someone else. In that case, the plane's designation can be changed; however, if the airplane is sold to another airline - whether new or used - it retains the Boeing designation throughout its life.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9821 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 14):
You are indeed correct in your point. After the Boeing model number is a three digit designation. The first number indicates the particular type of that model, and the second and third number and/or letter combination indicate the customer that this plane was made for.

A 767-222 indicates that the product is a -200 model (the first 2), and the second and third two's indicate United Airlines. A 767-231 would indicate a -200 model for TWA (31).

However, sometimes an airline cancels an order for airplanes and ends up re-selling them to someone else. In that case, the plane's designation can be changed; however, if the airplane is sold to another airline - whether new or used - it retains the Boeing designation throughout its life.

thanks for the clarification you are more articulate than I was.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9627 times:

How about the 737-100?

Although CO eventually ended up with a few (by way of PeopleExpress), it was only ever ordered by Lufthansa...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4627 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9593 times:

Boeing 707-138 and -138B - only Qantas.

Was the 737-100 operated by anyone other than Lufthansa?



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9559 times:
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SQ had several ( actually I think it was MSA which was the predecessor of both SQ and MH ) , I think AV had two new build ones for a little while as well


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6837 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9559 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
How about the 737-100?

I thought Aloha had some too; but in any case the thread is about Boeing planes that never flew for US airlines, not ordered by them.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9547 times:

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlines



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
How about the 737-100?

You answered your own question:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
Although CO eventually ended up with a few (by way of PeopleExpress),

They are both US airlines therefore the 737-100 wouldent count...



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9507 times:

There's also the -400 series 707's (RR Conway powered...) Very popular in former British territories  Smile


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9254 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 17):
Boeing 707-138 and -138B - only Qantas.

Sorry, you are wrong. The following US airlines flew B707-138s after QANTAS sold them:

Standard Airways
Alaska Airlines
Aeroamerica
Braniff

In addition a number of leasing companies in the US had various -138s at various times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
There's also the -400 series 707's (RR Conway powered...)

What about msn 18413 N4465C operated for over 6 years by Cobra Airways after Europe Aero Service sold it?
Also three of the ex Lufthansa machines operated for at least 2 US leasing companies and RDC Marine Inc operated an ex Varig machine as N59RD.

B737-100 US operators were:

Peoplexpress
Continental
America West
Challenge Air International
Air Florida

A number of leasing companies in the US held various airframes at various times and the 737-100 srs prototype was taken by NASA


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8996 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 3):
Where did you get that idea from? NW and UA didn't order it because they didn't need it. If they need the plane and it only has GE engines, well guess what...UA and NW are using GE engines.

Although that was not the premise for the 300 decision, NW did at one point have a policy that they would ONLY order aircraft equipped with Pratt & Whitney engines, no exceptions, so there is some truth to what he is saying. Of course, that policy is long gone.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8991 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 14):
You are indeed correct in your point. After the Boeing model number is a three digit designation. The first number indicates the particular type of that model, and the second and third number and/or letter combination indicate the customer that this plane was made for.

That considered, I wonder how they will handle the 787. For example, if DL orders the 787 would it be a 787-832, or would they drop the customer designation?



Good goes around!
25 AeroWesty : As were AirCal and American.
26 KhenleyDIA : I thought that the 737-600 was flown by AirTran... As for Qantas being the only airline flying the 747-400ER, I thought BA had them too, but disabled
27 Semobeila : Actually, these planes are operated for Boeing by Evergreen International!
28 AirTran737 : Evergreen Airlines will be doing the flying of these birds once they are certified. Nope, only the 737-700, and 200 in a past life.
29 Philb : They had 2 737-159s which were built for Avianca sold to the West German Air Force and then passed to Aloha before going to Air Cal who still had the
30 DxBrian : As AirTran737 noted, the Dreamlifter will be operated by Evergreen Airlines, which is a US based all cargo airline. Their HQ and base of operations ar
31 Bmacleod : Hopefully the 777-300ER will be deleted from this list soon. Has anyone heard what UA or NW will replace their older 744s with or do yet have a widebo
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