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Is It Me Are Is The 777 The Worlds Safest Airliner  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3757 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6282 times:

When I think about the Boeing 777, I notice it been in airliner service for 12 years now and never had a crash. It has rarely had a emergency landing. That is a long time for a jet to not have a major problem, this why I think the 777 is the safest airliner ever built. Do you agree, if not why?

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWestJetYQQ From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6275 times:

The 777 has an ultimately clean record. But I wouldn't put that label on it. I think it's just been by chance that it hasn't had a major accident yet.

 twocents 

Cheers
Carson



Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3070 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6275 times:

Perhaps so in several parameters, but consider this: The 777 is designed and for the most part used as a long-haul airliner, which means that the average 777 would have relatively few takeoffs/landings and pressurization cycles per miles flown when compared to typically high-cycle aircraft such as MD-80s (and related variants), 737s, and various RJs. As takeoffs and landings are when most accidents occur, I suggest the 777 simply may not have been subjected to the same number of cycles as shorter-haul aircraft models and therefore may have the appearance of a superior safety record.

I wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of the average number of accidents per pressurization cycle on individual aircraft models?



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User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11705 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

As I've said before, there are other airliners which have a similar and unblemished safety record to the 777, notably the Russian Il-96 which is of a similar size. So yes, it is currently one of the worlds safest airlines, but it does not hold the title on its own.


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3314 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

There are quite a few aircraft around without any hull losses, but the 777 is the aircraft with most airframes built. It certainly does look like the 777 is near the top of the safest commercial widebody table, if not already at the top! But perhaps it is hard to be certain until the 777 is close to the end of it's life which will not be for a good while yet thankfully.

The A330 has only had one fatal event that I know of and that was of a test aircraft, thus leaving no fatal events in commercial use. Also the Boeing 717 does not have any hull losses however it is virtually a DC-9 / MD 80 which has had quite a few fatal events. I do not believe the MD90 has any fatal events.

Other aircraft without fatal events that are worth a mention are the A318, A319, A321, 737-600, 737-700 and the 737-900



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineA340313X From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

The A340 has a couple of crashes but no fatalities to it's name. I'd guess ( i hope not, but) there will be some T7 incident at some point, let's just hope if it happens no-one is hurt.

User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6217 times:

Yes and no.

The 777 was at the time of its debut, the world's most tested airliner. I believe only the A380 has surpassed it. However, nearly 12 years later, the 777 is lucky enough that it hasn't suffered an incident...and as mentioned above, there are other things to consider when factoring the title as the world's most safest airliner.


User currently offlineTrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

It also depends on what engine type you put on an airframe. You could build the safest fuselage, but engine trouble for any reason can lead to disaster - and neither Boeing nor Airbus make the engines commonly used on 777s or their other aircraft.

User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2398 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6192 times:

A dozen years of service, several hundred off the production line, not one fatal accident. I'd consider it the safest airliner as well. Have other aircraft such as the 717, MD90, A319, and A340 have similar flawless safety records? Yes, but they haven't been in service as long and/or have far less airframes built.

Quoting TSS (Reply 2):
As takeoffs and landings are when most accidents occur, I suggest the 777 simply may not have been subjected to the same number of cycles as shorter-haul aircraft models and therefore may have the appearance of a superior safety record.

Think of all the accidents that plagued the DC-10 and classic 747's in their first dozen years of service. While true to an extent, I'd take that theory with a grain of salt.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
As I've said before, there are other airliners which have a similar and unblemished safety record to the 777, notably the Russian Il-96 which is of a similar size

Yes, but how many more 777's are flying verses Il-96's? It's not even close, therefore the 777 gets the nod.



There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6189 times:

Let's not jinx it.  Smile I had someone ask me the other day why every crash seems to be a Boeing 737, but one must remember over 5,000 have built and some operate on really short sectors.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 4):
737-600, 737-700 and the 737-900

Well, let's see. The -700 is in fact clean with the exception of WN sliding off the runway and running over a child at MDW, but I suppose that doesn't really count. The -600 and -900 have only 66 and 52 models in service respectively, so it would certainly be a bad omen for those programs if there had been an accident.



If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 6):
as mentioned above, there are other things to consider when factoring the title as the world's most safest airliner.

One of them is, how many aircraft have been built. I dont know how much the T7 production numbers are, but that is one decisive factor to look at.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 10):
I dont know how much the T7 production numbers are, but that is one decisive factor to look at.

I believe about 660 have been built.



If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

Quoting Acey (Reply 11):
I believe about 660 have been built.

and the 737 has over 5000 in use correct? I think there should be some sort of rate to determine what is the safest airliner.



"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6179 times:

I would expect the 777 to be safe, seeing as it is the newest all-new type (Boeing & Airbus) in operation.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

Quoting Acey (Reply 9):
Well, let's see. The -700 is in fact clean with the exception of WN sliding off the runway and running over a child at MDW, but I suppose that doesn't really count.

How does that not count? It's a fatal accident.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11705 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6144 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
Yes, but how many more 777's are flying verses Il-96's? It's not even close, therefore the 777 gets the nod.

Not exactly, if you're comparing the safety of two aircraft designs then they are perfectly equal, both having zero crashes to their name. Long may this continue as well for both aircraft!


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6096 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
How does that not count? It's a fatal accident.

It wasn't a hull loss, nor did anyone die on the aircraft.



If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5811 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6089 times:

What has to be taken into account when claiming an aircraft is safe or unsafe is whether an accident is the fault of the aircraft. For example, Aircraft A may have a completely clean record, whereas Aircraft B may have had several "accidents" through no fault of its own, ie: a terrorist attack, windshear or pilot error. Aircraft B may have had been involved in the deaths of several hundred people, but it is as equally safe as Aircraft A.

User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2398 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6081 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 15):
Not exactly, if you're comparing the safety of two aircraft designs then they are perfectly equal, both having zero crashes to their name. Long may this continue as well for both aircraft!

I disagree, the number of aircraft in service is completely relevant when comparing flawless safety records of different designs.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 10):
One of them is, how many aircraft have been built. I dont know how much the T7 production numbers are, but that is one decisive factor to look at.

 checkmark 

Quoting Acey (Reply 11):
I believe about 660 have been built.

 checkmark 



There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6073 times:
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The fact that the 777 has not had a hull loss or a passenger killed in commercial use is a testament to how great this airliner is. This plane has redundancy and back-up safety systems that aircraft from previous generations could only dream of. Credit must go to Boeing, the development, research and certification testing for the T7 was the most intense in the history of aviation, Boeing certainly did their homework well. Considering the fact that the 777 is flown by airlines from every corner of the globe in nearly every weather condition, it reminds you how durable and reliable this plane is. Touch wood this impeccable record is kept, but it takes one pilot error, one screw-up by a mechanic, or a fanatical terrorist to shatter this record.


In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

The 767-400 has a no accidents either.


You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6050 times:

isn't difficult to call a certain model the 'safest'? Is it not true that many aircraft accidents and incidents are related to the pilot's decision? I believe a pilot can make a mistake on ANY plane, no matter the three digits thats on the side, and maybe that is a testament to training companies have undertaken, or maybe because of the system's of the 777, or maybe its time just hasn't come up. Most other major airplane models have been around somewhat longer than the 777.

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11705 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6045 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 18):
I disagree, the number of aircraft in service is completely relevant when comparing flawless safety records of different designs.

Agree to disagree then. Both are certainly beautiful aircraft!

Other aircraft I can think of which have yet to encounter any significant accidents/incidents/loss of life etc... are;

A318
A319
A321
B717
B777
D328
EMB135
EMB140
EMB170
EMB190
F70
Il-96
Tu204


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1993 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

No some would argue the A340 is safer then the 777. Having had Major Accidents and yet everyone was able to get out of the aircraft safely (thinking AF in YYZ specifically) should mean alot to. Its like saying a Specific car is not as safe as another because of # of accidents, rather then how many people that second car has saved due to safety features that if where installed in car A could have saved lives, its all relative.


Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5962 times:

For the record, the Boeing 757 also went 12 years before its first hull loss (AA965), and they've made more than 1,000 of them.

25 Post contains links EWRCabincrew : The first hull loss for the 757 was a 757-21B (reg B-2812) from China Southwest Airlines on 02OCT90. It was struck by a hijacked Xiamen Airlines 737
26 747400sp : But the 767 family has had some crashes.
27 Post contains images Acey : This is entirely a dumb thread...Legoguy was picking out variants of the 737 that haven't had a hull loss yet...the entire 737 program has had some p
28 PC12Fan : I don't think there have been any hull losses of a 757 that have not been human error or human demise. (9/11)
29 Viscount724 : But it still counts as a fatal accident. And what difference does it make whether the person killed was on the aircraft or in a car hit by the aircra
30 Acey : And also the fact that most accidents occur in the takeoff and landing phases of flight...long haul jets like the 777 have longer flight times and are
31 Teva : There is one aircraft that will keep clean record for ever: the Dassault Mercure. Never had an accident during its years with Air Inter. And it is now
32 HAWK21M : True. As on date no Write offs for the B777s. regds MEL
33 Superfly : Keep in mind the DC-10 and 747 were also used on short and medium range flights back in the 1970s. Yes they were designed as long-haul jets but serve
34 TrijetsRMissed : Yes, but 777 flies some fairly short routes within the US for both UA and AA, the largest operators. ORD-DEN, ORD-DFW, etc.. Also, the 747's accident
35 Post contains links KhelmDTW : Not one incident? Ask the engineer killed in 2001 when the 777 sprung a leak, and he was killed in a fire ball. http://www.natasafety1st.org/f_mishaps
36 PC12Fan : True, but that had absolutely nothing to do with the aircrafts performance. It was stationary on the ground at the gate.
37 Post contains links TrijetsRMissed : That's like blaming the DC-10 for TZ's mishap with the ground fire at ORD in '86. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19860810-0
38 747400sp : DC10 was originally a medium range airliners. They was design to fly LAX-ORD or JFK-ORD, but MD saw a market for a long range airliner to fit between
39 Burnsie28 : I feel safest in a DC-9, that thing is a tank.
40 Post contains images Superfly : Point taken and happy birthday.
41 Post contains images 747400sp : OH! Thank You.
42 Mdodd : True...for the best results: "Only time will tell..."
43 Legoguy : Just to clear that up... I thought it would be interesting to know which aircraft model's have not had a fatal crash. I was not trying to apply that
44 Post contains images KPDX : The 757-300 has never had an accident either...has it? Im flying in one in about 2 weeks, CO PDX-IAH. KPDX
45 MEA-707 : We will never agree. The 777 has an impressive record. I think the A-330/340 family comes VERY close with no passenger fatalities and overall more dai
46 Post contains links Viscount724 : That was the 2nd 737NG fatal accident/writeoff. You are overlooking this one: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20070505-0 There was
47 TrijetsRMissed : " target=_blank>http://aviation-safety.net/database/...505-0 The GOL accident happened last September, therefore it was the first 737NG fatal accident
48 PGNCS : Explain this, please.
49 Viscount724 : Thanks. You're correct. I must have transposed the dates of the two accidents.
50 ZBBYLW : Was that not a 737 NG that crashed in Greece?
51 Post contains links Viscount724 : No, it was a -300. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20050814-0
52 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : No problem Viscount.
53 Post contains images KPDX : I ask again. Has the 757-300 ever even had a incident? I couldnt find any, at least in the US. KPDX
54 TrijetsRMissed : No hull losses, no fatal accidents. IZ had a couple incidents, one involving a near miss with two anti-aircraft missiles in Kenya in 2002. Another in
55 NA : The 777 is not only a very excellent piece of engineering, but also has been extremely lucky so far. Every type is now and then hit by bad luck which
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