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How Would You Improve The U.S ATC System?  
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

The question is self explanatory. I read a lot of opinions on how antiquated ATC is in the United States but no-one offers real solutions. I only hear generic, off the cuff remarks such as "privitization" or a "satellite based system." So please be specific. Explain your reasonings. Also, if you dare to compare the FAA with NavCanada, NATS or Eurocontrol all I ask is that you take into account that they do not work the volume or complexity we do.


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

Thank you for this opportunity to finish where I left off

The ATC system is ancient, out of date etc.....whatever you want to call it. And just because a location got a touch display screens last week doesn't fix the problem. These things have been out for 20 years now and they just happened to be recently updated....That further proves that the ATC system is out of date.

First step would be to take a step back a admit to the problems and start from there.

[Edited 2007-10-29 20:07:56]


DCA
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8961 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Thread starter):
Also, if you dare to compare the FAA with NavCanada, NATS or Eurocontrol all I ask is that you take into account that they do not work the volume or complexity we do.

But do you really handle all that traffic? I mean, if you are starting this thread, it tells me something isn't right to begin with. And I think the problem is the handling.

Anyways, I have a question that may sound indirect:

Do airport fees/slots/costs vary during peak times and less busy times or are they flat all day long? I am particularly interested in airports like ATL, EWR, ORD, LAX, LGA, etc.

[Edited 2007-10-29 20:07:17]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Actually modernize it....

Outside of that.... Spend some money on new/existing airports. If unable to build new, then modernize older facilities for larger aircraft then....From the other thread....

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 72):
If people want to really cut flights at congested airports rather than lay new runways, the solution is rather simple. Blanket coverage of seat averages between types of airports. In other words, some simple language:

For all flights into and out of commercial service airports that are operating at 80% or greater than their peak operational capacity, the following minimum seat requirements apply during the peak time:

1. For all flights to Non-primary commerical service airports: 50 seats
2. For all flights to Primary Small Hub Airports: 70 seats
3. For all flights to Primary Medium Hub Airports: 100 seats
4. For all flights to Primary Large Hub Airports: 160 seats
5. For all flights operated by a uniform capacity carrier (single aircraft fleet): 80 seats
6. No more than one flight may be scheduled per carrier, or carrier group (including regional and code-share partners) to any point in a single peak hour.

This applies a minimum seat capacity to flights that applies to all carriers equally and is not arbitrary. Peak pricing schemes are a joke and any FAA mandated schedule reduction is short lived.


The definition of airports is already a matter of public law:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...ssenger_allcargo_stats/categories/

[Edited 2007-10-29 20:14:43]

User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 1):
The ATC system is ancient, out of date etc

What do you find "ancient" about it?

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):
Do airport rates/slots/costs vary during peak times and less busy times or are they flat all day long? I am particularly interested in airports like ATL, EWR, ORD, LAX, LGA, etc.

If you are talking about landing fees, I don't know. That is an airport management question, sorry.



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8961 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 4):

If you are talking about landing fees, I don't know. That is an airport management question, sorry.

Yes, landing fees.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 4):
What do you find "ancient" about it?

It is the same basic system that we have had around for years.... While some upgrades have been made they have not kept up with the booming aviation industry and there is no excuse for that.

[Edited 2007-10-29 20:37:59]


DCA
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 6):
It is the same basic system that we have had around for years

What do you want the system to do/handle? My friend at ZDC can't force Delta to fly through a level 2 cell.



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 7):
What do you want the system to do/handle? My friend at ZDC can't force Delta to fly through a level 2 cell.

Weather is not the issue here....... my friend.



DCA
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5255 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):
Do airport fees/slots/costs vary during peak times and less busy times or are they flat all day long? I am particularly interested in airports like ATL, EWR, ORD, LAX, LGA, etc.

That is a function of the airport operators. They should introduce peak time pricing to encourage the carriers to smooth out there banks. Market forces would solve some of the overcrowding.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 1):
The ATC system is ancient, out of date etc..

Along with P3, I'd like to know what you find ancient. Give me some specifics.

It's been under continuous rebuild for several years. In the future it will still have to be added to, rebuilt, replaced, whatever, a bit at a time. You can't flip a switch overnight and have a %100 new system on the next day.

GPS is a nice add, and should have at least an INS/IRS backup. PCDL should never have been de-funded. 8.33khz spacing! Europe did this 10 years ago, we should now. RNP is spreading. RVSM was sweet. Too bad no matching funds were made available to pour concrete.

Like I said, give some specifics.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5255 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8):
Weather is not the issue here....... my friend.

Then be specific. New RADAR displays, more controllers...what? This is what I am talking about. Everyone likes to take pot shots but has no specific ideas; just broad generalities and assumptions.



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 10):
Then be specific. New RADAR displays, more controllers...what? This is what I am talking about. Everyone likes to take pot shots but has no specific ideas; just broad generalities and assumption

Productivity of ATC employees.....Increase it. Im not talking about longer work hours. Finding ways to improve basic work out put during a shift.

More help from the Govt to find more qualified employees. Better schooling....more trade schools for HS graduates..financial aid etc. With this you get more employees to cover areas where man power is an issue.

Improve traffic flow programs in the congested NE United States.

A computer system that is current and up to date all over the board. Radar, Displays......The US should have the most up to date system in the world.

Airlines can't fly DC10's on routes like DFW-ELP anymore.....Times change systems need to updated to the latest and greatest.

Some type of improvement between general aviation and civil aviation. General aviation is growing at a ridiculous rate why major airlines are covering there cost.

Better communication between local ATC's and nation ATC's. If this means more national ATC centers then so be it.

Im no genius but I know things have to change for airlines and the travel industry to succeed



DCA
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Thread starter):
no-one offers real solutions

1) Congestion pricing for landing slots. ATC and airport capacity cannot be expanded overnight, airlines have proven they will not schedule to actual airport capacity, therefore congestion pricing is the only free-market way to get the delays under control in the short term. If you have a problem with congestion pricing, slot restriction achieves the same thing, although less efficiently.

2) Begin major infrastructure projects at all the major airports, primarily centered around more runways and improved ILS to allow improved spacing on all runways that don't already have it.

3) Develop RNP approaches for all runways in the US and get the carriers with RNP-capable aircraft to start using them.

4) Convert to a satellite-based ATC with centrally managed arrival scheduling.

There are reasons why I think this is what you should do, and why that's the right order, but I want to keep this short to get started.

Tom.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4827 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 4):
What do you find "ancient" about it?

Many systems in the US are 70's era computers. Often parts are hard to come by because they are no longer manufactured... whilst there has been some investment in recent times, it is generally accepted that the US system is quite dated compared to many other countries. Whilst Australia and New Zealand don't have the same population density etc as the US, between them they cover a larger area than the US and have much more modern systems with the likes of FANS fully integrated and a lot more point-point traffic because the system can handle it.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineFlyingClrs727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5158 times:

Privatize the ATC system.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

1) Get RNP procedures in place ASAP, and start using them to open up more flight paths in and out of airports (applies to SIDs, STARs, and IAPs). This would really help in the NYC area, where departure paths are limited by the limited number of navaids and the close proximity of three very busy airports to one another.

2) In order to accomplish #1, tell the NIMBYs where to stick it and design the airspace to be as efficient as possible.

3) Charge higher fees for airlines that can't use the RNP procedures at primary Class B airports.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 3):
For all flights into and out of commercial service airports that are operating at 80% or greater than their peak operational capacity, the following minimum seat requirements apply during the peak time:

1. For all flights to Non-primary commerical service airports: 50 seats
2. For all flights to Primary Small Hub Airports: 70 seats
3. For all flights to Primary Medium Hub Airports: 100 seats
4. For all flights to Primary Large Hub Airports: 160 seats
5. For all flights operated by a uniform capacity carrier (single aircraft fleet): 80 seats
6. No more than one flight may be scheduled per carrier, or carrier group (including regional and code-share partners) to any point in a single peak hour.

I think #4 should be 130 seats, so that it would include the 737 and A320 families for carriers like B6, F9, AS, NK, but otherwise it sounds good.

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 14):
Privatize the ATC system.

As the OP said, explain your reasoning.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 6):
It is the same basic system that we have had around for years..

So are the aircraft. Still using wings and a weight producing stabilizer system. What do you think should be done about this?

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8):
Weather is not the issue here....... my friend.

#2 cause of delays. It's germane to the thread.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Finding ways to improve basic work out put during a shift.

Sounds like a "Bean Counter" statement. The "Out put" is Safety. We don't produce Widgets or some other device that pops off an assembly line. When the traffic is there you work it. When it's not, you are like a Fireman waiting for a fire.
How would you improve the basic work out put of a fire station?

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
More help from the Govt to find more qualified employees. Better schooling....more trade schools for HS graduates..financial aid etc. With this you get more employees to cover areas where man power is an issue.

Sounds like more government hand outs to me. The FAA already backed the CTI program, then didn't hire the graduates coming out.
You want more man power in certain areas? Offer pay commensurate with the responsibility of the position in that local market.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Improve traffic flow programs in the congested NE United States.

Already being done.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
A computer system that is current and up to date all over the board. Radar, Displays......The US should have the most up to date system in the world.

Ever hear of ASR-11? STARS? ACD?

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Airlines can't fly DC10's on routes like DFW-ELP anymore.....Times change systems need to updated to the latest and greatest.

Airlines probably never should have flown DC-10s between DFW and ELP. But hey, when they did (pre-dereg) there were a regulated industry that could waste money left and right, then, with government help, gouge it out of the passenger.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Better communication between local ATC's and nation ATC's. If this means more national ATC centers then so be it.

What are you talking about? Be specific please.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Im no genius but I know things have to change for airlines and the travel industry to succeed

And that change has to be the ATC system? It's the root cause of their woes?

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
Tom.

Nice. A thinking man offering solutions. How'd you get in here?

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 13):
and a lot more point-point traffic because the system can handle it.

Point to point? How are you defining point. Point as in a NAV fix, or point as in a destination?

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 14):
Privatize the ATC system.

We privatized Flight Service. It's been an over budget, under performing nightmare. ATC doesn't belong there. Safety of flight has to be a higher priority than the stock price. In a private corporation, by law, stock value has to be maximized. Fiduciary responsibility would trump safety. It's a business thing. ATC is a service thing.

Fire the present leadership and hire competent leadership to fix the present issues.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5047 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Get RNP procedures in place ASAP, and start using them to open up more flight paths in and out of airports (applies to SIDs, STARs, and IAPs)

I will agree that a performance based NAS would open up more routes but all the RNP procedures in the worlds won't do much until a few things are addressed. Separation standards for RNP procedures should be based upon the containment required, Flight Standards dictates what separation ATC has to use so they have to buy into the concept first, then the operators must be certified for IAP's of which there are maybe 3 airlines that have RNP certification for IAP's.....heck some do not even have RNAV approach ops specs.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Productivity of ATC employees.....Increase it. I'm not talking about longer work hours. Finding ways to improve basic work out put during a shift.

Please give some examples of how you get more productivity at a facility where during an 8 hr shift the employee is on the position for 5+30 or more with breaks and a 30 minute break for meal?

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Better communication between local ATC's and nation ATC's. If this means more national ATC centers then so be

You really don't want more centers......20 is plenty! Better communication between local and national, would you be more specific as I am not quite sure what your point is?

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
Develop RNP approaches for all runways in the US and get the carriers with RNP-capable aircraft to start using them.

At airports which have traffic and parallel runways the .65 don't allow for independent RNP ops so change the book.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5035 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 16):
In a private corporation, by law, stock value has to be maximized. Fiduciary responsibility would trump safety.

If that's the case, then shouldn't all airlines be run by the government? Obviously, safety is pretty important for airlines too, yet they are public companies.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 16):
Fire the present leadership and hire competent leadership to fix the present issues.

But as long as its run by the government, you'll never get the competent leadership you seek. There's no strong incentive to be competent when you work for the government. As long as government runs ATC, it will always be behind the times in technology and always suffer with poor leadership.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
1) Congestion pricing for landing slots. ATC and airport capacity cannot be expanded overnight, airlines have proven they will not schedule to actual airport capacity, therefore congestion pricing is the only free-market way to get the delays under control in the short term. If you have a problem with congestion pricing, slot restriction achieves the same thing, although less efficiently.

Amen. I think it's pretty funny that the airlines so violently oppose congestion pricing, yet it's the same scheme they use to price their own product.

I agree with everything on Tdscanuck's list, but would add one more. I would advocate taking the Collaborative Decision Making process one step further and allow airlines at the 5-10 most congested airports to discuss scheduling in advance. While this clearly walks a fine line of anti-trust issues, the airlines could easily relieve congestion by simply reducing duplicate services and overscheduled time blocks.


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 9):
They should introduce peak time pricing to encourage the carriers to smooth out there banks. Market forces would solve some of the overcrowding.



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
Congestion pricing for landing slots.

Peak pricing has never worked. The airlines simply pass on the cost to consumers.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
Develop RNP approaches for all runways in the US and get the carriers with RNP-capable aircraft to start using them.

Unless you can develop variable glideslopes based on the approach category of the aircraft (which is the plan if the FAA gets it's head out of the sand on LAAS), this does very little to enahnce the operational efficiency of an airport due to wake turbulence separation requirements.


User currently offlineBAW2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
Productivity of ATC employees.....Increase it. Im not talking about longer work hours. Finding ways to improve basic work out put during a shift.

You can't compare this job with the rest of the world. Its not like a person working at mcdonalds in the drive thru department where you want him to talk to more cars and delivery more food in less time.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 11):
More help from the Govt to find more qualified employees. Better schooling....more trade schools for HS graduates..financial aid etc. With this you get more employees to cover areas where man power is an issue.

Lookup Embry Riddle, Community College of Beaver County, PA University of North Dakota just to name a few. Not to mention Military applicants

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 14):
Privatize the ATC system

Does not need to happen, shouldn't happen, and has been proven to be a huge mess. Lockheed/martin took over Flight service stations, pilots have to wait upwards of one hour now before being able to talk to a briefer, flight plans are getting lost or not being entered into the NAS. The briefers have no local knowledge about weather patterns in your area of the country. Lockheed has requested money above and beyond the original quote to both consalidate and take over the FSS division.

Privatizing ATC would also be a huge national security risk considering all of the military action that takes place as well as other areas of law enforcement. As well as for the reason's SPREE has already noted above.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 18):
As long as government runs ATC, it will always be behind the times in technology and always suffer with poor leadership.

Poor leadership because the oval office has an adjenda. The top faa jobs should be voted on from within not appointed. The individual to take the job, should be qualified in most of the jobs that they govern ie: Flight standards, Airways Facilities, ATC etc....(being an airline exec doesn't count, and the applicant should be disqualified if they have any affiliation with an airline or have worked for an airline).

If your thinking that poor leadership is just a government thing, let me point out other companies that had dismal leadership and were in the private--> MCI worldcom, Mcleod Industries, Enron, Kodak, USair (steve wolf)


The key to reducing delays is building more runways, getting the airlines to open their schedules up to 24 hours instead of 6am- 1030pm, and using bigger equipment other then RJ's and scheduling them less frequently or atleast stagger the departure/ arrival times better to be more steady instead of all in, all out (which is kindof taking place at JFK slowly)

Rgds

Baw2198



"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4974 times:

The American ATC system works pretty damned good. It handles the most traffic, as far as I know, than any other system, and when was the last time you heard ATC blamed for an accident?

The majority of delays are coming from too many slots being scheduled into the major airports at the the same time by the airlines, during peak periods. As was mentioned, weather is also a major cause of delays. Nothing can be done about thunderstorms, though.

The airlines insist they are mostly innocent. They are trying to blame ATC and General Aviation for the problems. Any routing delays that ATC has to deal with are usually because of airlines stacked up over airports they've overscheduled.

There just isn't enough runway or terminal space to accommodate the airlines. If you gave ATC magic wands, they still couldn't possibly cram any more tin onto the major airports, during peak hours.

As guilty as they are, the airlines do have some monkeys on their back. What airline would give up primo slots, unilaterally, just to ease congestion? At the same time, if they get together to work out something more reasonable, they come up against the monopoly watch dogs.

Forcing the airlines to space their flights better over the day, (and night but the nimbys would kill that), would help a lot but that would require the feds getting back into the airline business and the airlines would really freak at that. On the other hand, that's probably what's going to have to happen over the next few years.



What the...?
User currently offlineJ.mo From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

I think it has all been said here.

Privatization is not the answer. Ask the head of AOPA how well that turned out for him with Flight Service. Serves him right.

http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/articles/2007/071010lockheed.html

The FAA needs to put competent people in charge. From the top on down aviation or military experience should be a must. For some reason they keep hiring failed airline execs for leaders of the ATO.

We also just received a briefing on the future of the ATO and how it plans to work with the aviation community. I will tell you this, GA is not considered part of the aviation community. The focus is on airlines, airlines and airlines.

We are also moving towards a more business friendly approach. Pretty soon controllers will be "associates" or "team members." Airlines are already referred to as customers.

JM



What is the difference between Fighter pilots and God? God never thought he was a fighter pilot.
User currently offlineNucsh From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

Quoting J.mo (Reply 22):
I will tell you this, GA is not considered part of the aviation community. The focus is on airlines, airlines and airlines.

The day that the general aviation community is left behind and forgotten is the day that the airlines will start dying. They'll get their extra room in the skies, but they wont have a way of filling up those pilot slots that some regionals are already having issues filling.



If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

Quoting BAW2198 (Reply 20):
Poor leadership because the oval office has an adjenda.

Who's in the Oval Office has little relevance. The FAA has suffered from poor leadership for decades spanning all administrations.

And even if the FAA got a good leader, the person would be overwhelmed by the layers of bloated inefficient government workers that work for them. And being government, you can't fire them for being slow/inefficient...you can only hope they retire.

As long as government is in charge, the ATC system will be inherently inefficient. I'm not necessarily arguing for privatization, but if you want government in charge you will have to accept a large amount of incompetence and inefficiency.

Quoting BAW2198 (Reply 20):
The key to reducing delays is building more runways,

Not practical at some of the most congested airports (JFK, EWR, PHL).

Quoting BAW2198 (Reply 20):
getting the airlines to open their schedules up to 24 hours instead of 6am- 1030pm,

Who wants to fly LGA-CHS at 3am? No one. Not to mention that increasing flight operations at night would create a slew of lawsuits from the NIMBY's that live around these airports.


25 JoeCanuck : Major Asian airlines do a huge deal of their business at night. Most flights I've taken out of DXB, DOH and SIN have been in the wee hours of the mor
26 SPREE34 : That's the whole point. Joe consumer will take the off peak flight instead to save a few bucks. Peak time flights will be reduced due to lessening de
27 B777A340Fan : 1) Create a company funded by the FAA and the airlines to perform extensive research into more efficient navigation/sensory systems that would allow g
28 FlyPNS1 : It's always been this way....thought it has gotten worse in recent times. Even the NextGen system currently being worked on will be behind the times
29 Boeing7E7 : It doesn't work. The airlines redistribute that cost across the entire operation at the airport, including off peak operations that don't carry the h
30 FlyPNS1 : If you push the fees high enough, the fares will go high enough that consumers will start to look at other options. Many of the congested airports in
31 ShyFlyer : The primary job of an airline is to make money. An airline that does not make money will not be around for very long, regardless of its safety record
32 PanAm747 : Create a new FAA that functions like the United States Federal Reserve - independent, immune from any government meddling and interference, able to re
33 BAW2198 : We already have a great workforce of controllers, I wouldn't change that for anything. The problem is incompetent management who have no clue as to w
34 Nucsh : I know we're talking about controllers of busy and congested airspace for the most part, but I've had quite a few problems with local controllers (ap
35 AA777ER : Its very simple............................ Do NOT allow any AC Land at the 10 Busiest/ Major hubs Airports with less than 100 seats.................
36 SPREE34 : You are wrong. You may believe that is the reality, many do, and many want it that way. (even some ATCs) The FAA Order says "Safe, Orderly, and Exped
37 Post contains links Nucsh : Are you including GA and business into the equation? I can understand why you wouldn't let either into a top 10 airport, but into places slightly les
38 Mir : And many more problems created. -Mir
39 Boeing7E7 : In order for that to happen, the DOT would have to mandate it and that would be re-regulation. Setting a capacity standard is the only way to ensure
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