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Going To Australia  
User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

A friend recently asked me about the best flights from North America to Australia. Since I've only made the journey twice, I decided to ask the experts.

He does have one requirement. He flat out refuses to fly anything with less than 4 engines. I've tried explaning to him the advances in engine technology, but it's like  banghead . He has no problem with connections, or delays between connections. What are your opinions/suggestions?


Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3972 times:



Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
What are your opinions/suggestions?

Tell him to grow up about the 4 vs 2 engines and that the 777 has a spotless flight record and tell him to book:

14th December 2007 YVR-SYD on AC#33 n/s on the 77W.  yes  (First day they go n/s to SYD)



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17004 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3968 times:



Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
He flat out refuses to fly anything with less than 4 engines. I've tried explaning to him the advances in engine technology, but it's like

Wow, that is amazing. Did he explain why he dont want to fly with the 777 for example???



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3964 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):
Wow, that is amazing. Did he explain why he dont want to fly with the 777 for example???

Because it has only 2 engines. It might be a fact that 2 versus 4 engine aircraft are equally safe, etc... but many people of the general public, including this person, think the opposite.

The alternative is to get him fly a Qantas 747 from Los Angeles or San Francisco, that way he´ll get to fly in the four engines he wants, and experience the "Spirit of Australia" even before arriving "Down Under".


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17004 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3960 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 3):
The alternative is to get him fly a Qantas 747 from Los Angeles or San Francisco,

But if he lives in Canada, it is impossible to get him to LAX or SFO for the QF flight, because it is no 4 engined a/c that operates between LAX/SFO and Canada.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

I thought the 4 engine requirement was just for the Transpacific part of the journey.

User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

I should have specified he refuses to fly across the ocean on a twin engined aircraft. It's just the way he is.

[Edited 2007-12-04 12:02:21]


Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3941 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 3):
It might be a fact that 2 versus 4 engine aircraft are equally safe

Actually, I think a 744 that has lost one engine has a better chance of flying further than a 773 that has lost and engine.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17004 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3879 times:



Quoting Don81603 (Reply 6):
I should have specified he refuses to fly across the ocean on a twin engined aircraft. It's just the way he is.

Okey, then PlunaCRJs example can he take. He can fly into SFO/LAX and take the QF flight.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
Actually, I think a 744 that has lost one engine has a better chance of flying further than a 773 that has lost and

That is true. For example on a BA flight to LHR from LAX flew all the way to LHR with just 3engines. They had "lost" one of the engines near LAX, but they decided to flý all the way to LHR with just 3engines running.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3877 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):
That is true. For example on a BA flight to LHR from LAX flew all the way to LHR with just 3engines. They had "lost" one of the engines near LAX, but they decided to flý all the way to LHR with just 3engines running.

Now, I would prefer a thousand times to fly a twin engine 777 rather than a 3 engine 747.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17004 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3870 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 9):
Now, I would prefer a thousand times to fly a twin engine 777 rather than a 3 engine 747.

True, that feels much safer.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineECONOMICS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

Really depends from where to where he wants to go.

Unless wanting to go to SYD, avoid it like the plague. Terribly laid out airport & nightmare changing from international to domestic terminals & v.v..

Depending where in North America he's flying from, NZ now have services from YVR(3/week), SFO(daily) & LAX(~3/day), using a combination of 777's, 744's & 767(this on 1 LAX/AKL with a stop).

All obviously stop in AKL. Apart from fact the the Kiwis can no longer play & win top level rugby games, it's a interesting little country, worth a day or 1 on way to OZ. (altrhough the best part of NZ is 2 hours flying south of AKL, at ZQN)

Get over the 2 engine thing. The 777's are the best aircraft on route.

If want to avoid NZ, then QF fly nonstop LAX/BNE(soon to be daily I believe) & LAX/MEL daily(also via AKL), while QF do fly ~3 times/day to SYD, only do this later option if actually stoppping over in SYD. SYD is another big city & for a tourist can be knocked off in a couple of days max. The real place to see is Queensland, but it's a big state, ie. BNE/CNS is a 2 hour flight. Check out the reef (the Great Barrier Reef-if u believe all the global warming nonscience, it might not be there much longer), but beware of mid summer, DEC-FEB as it gets very hot & humid up CNS way. Whitsundays roughly 1/2 way between BNE & CNS worth a look. (closest airports HTI, PPP & MKY). Hundreds of islands, some with resorts.

Another more option is to fly FJ via NAN (great resorts near NAN airport on Denauru Island) Fijians are so laid back & friendly. Think u can now fly everyday LAX/NAN (NZ & FJ codeshare-think it's 4 days a week an FJ 744 & 3 day a week an NZ 763.) QF own a big chunk of FJ, so maintenance of aircraft good & believe u can fly FJ in 1 direction & QF in other if didn't want to stop in NAN in both directions, but hey, great place to stop (only 3-4 hours from BNE, SYD, MEL) & the Fijians need your dollars, QF don't. The Coup is a non-event. Staying at Denauru Island compound of Hilton, Sheraton, Radisson etc. u wouldn't know there was any coup. If anything ever was to happen to a tourist in Fiji, they wouldn't get any more tourists & economy would crash & the military know this.

Exchange rate is good too-last time I checked it was about AUD$0.80 for a Fiji dollar, so very roughly about USD$0.70 for Fiji dollar. When there drink local beer, Fiji Bitter & stay away from the Kava (ground out root of some plant with powerful effects). Presume that with FJ/QF being 1 world, that AA would have add on connections to LAX. AA codeshare some QF flights, but not sure about FJ.

Incidentally believe FJ 2 x 744's are SQ birds formally with AN.

! more option out of LAX is Air Tahiti Nui. All flight obviously via Tahiti, but here Tahiti is getting to be very expensive-might be cos to close to U.S..


User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3845 times:



Quoting ECONOMICS (Reply 11):
Really depends from where to where he wants to go.

He wants to see AC/DC lane in Melbourne, and visit his hero's grave site (Bon Scott), take the walking tour of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, see the Opera house, Great Barrier reef, Uluru, Australia Zoo, Walkabout Creek and Brisbane. I suggested the Aussie Airpass which he likes, but he wants a comparison between airlines. This guy has more money than he knows what to do with, so he's more interested in which airline treats you "best". For example, if Airline A costs $2.00, but has no IFE, he'd rather pay $2,000 for the chance to watch movies. He's the kind who dumped $5,500 on a 56 inch plasma TV for his bedroom



Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3837 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
Actually, I think a 744 that has lost one engine has a better chance of flying further than a 773 that has lost and engine.

Perhaps you should have a little more background knowledge before you make such a post  Wink

"a better chance of flying further??" You're kidding, right??  Yeah sure

That's the whole point of ETOPS certification. In the case of an engine failure, the specific aircraft has the systems, fuel, etc to be able to fly to a divert airport up to 180 minutes away. That means, 180 minutes with a lower cruise altitude, higher fuel burn, lower cruise speed, etc etc. That's the whole point of ETOPS, is to ENSURE that the aicraft will be able to fly up to 180 minutes to a divert airfield. "A better chance" is certainly not the point of ETOPS. The only way the FAA approved ETOPS to begin with is that because they knew WITHOUT DOUBT the planes could safety do it.

The only difference between a 777 or 744 would be where the final decision lies as to divert fields when an engine fails. In a 777, the plane MUST land at the nearest suitable airport, no matter what. On a 744, the captain may make an "executive decision" (wasn't that a Kurt Russell movie?!?!) to continue the flight if he feels it can be safely done as such. Just some time ago, a NW 742 lost an engine enroute MSP-ANC over Montana. Of course the crew could have landed at BZN, MSO, or any number of other airports, but the captain decided to continue onto SEA where there is NW MX and facilities better equipped to handle a 747.

A UA 777 might hold the current record for the longest divert while on ETOPS. While enroute AKL-LAX (when UA used to run the route), a UA 772ER lost an engine, and flew 192 minutes to somewhere in Hawaii....I think it was KOA. Keep in mind, AKL-LAX was an ETOPS-207 route, the longest ETOPS rating currently granted by the FAA. So, for over three hours the UA 777 limped on a single engine to Hawaii. Pretty impressive....

The planes are capable of it, not "a good chance of flying further".  Yeah sure



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5552 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3830 times:



Quoting Don81603 (Reply 12):
He wants to see AC/DC lane in Melbourne, and visit his hero's grave site (Bon Scott), take the walking tour of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, see the Opera house, Great Barrier reef, Uluru, Australia Zoo, Walkabout Creek and Brisbane. I suggested the Aussie Airpass which he likes, but he wants a comparison between airlines.

You don't say which city in Canada, but QF have code shares on AA from YYZ &YVR to LAX and YUL & YOW to LAX via ORD. Connecting to QF at LAX he can fly to SYD, spend 4-5 days (including a recovery day), fly to MEL for 4-5 days then on to Uluru for 2 days then to CNS spend some time on a reef island then BNE, do Sunshine/Gold Coasts from there and fly back to LAX from BNE.

There is no comparision between airlines for domestic Oz. From your remarks I assume he is flying business class. The only domestic class is on QF and not on all flights either. QF is the only full service airline in Oz. DJ calls it self a new world carrier, not too sure what that means exactly but it does not sound like your friend, everyone else is a LCC.

The Aussie Airpass would work well for such a trip, but make sure it's still on sale, I am not sure about that.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3786 times:



Quoting Don81603 (Reply 12):
This guy has more money than he knows what to do with, so he's more interested in which airline treats you "best". For example, if Airline A costs $2.00, but has no IFE, he'd rather pay $2,000 for the chance to watch movies. He's the kind who dumped $5,500 on a 56 inch plasma TV for his bedroom

That is interesting. Singapore Airlines Raffles Class from LAX to SIN (A340-500), and then hop in an A380 (suites, of course) to SYD. A nice (expensive) trip. And all in 4 engine planes  Smile (except the Canada- LAX segment)

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 13):
Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
Actually, I think a 744 that has lost one engine has a better chance of flying further than a 773 that has lost and engine.

Perhaps you should have a little more background knowledge before you make such a post

"a better chance of flying further??" You're kidding, right??

Well, I doubt the BA crew would have taken a 777 all the way to London after an engine fails jut after departure from Los Angeles. Transpac has a point.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3773 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 15):
Well, I doubt the BA crew would have taken a 777 all the way to London after an engine fails jut after departure from Los Angeles.

Your doubt would be correct, because they wouldn't have even been allowed to in the first place. In a twin-engine airliner, if you have an engine failure, at any point in the flight, you MUST land at the nearest suitable airport. So, if a BA 777 had lost an engine, the argument for pressing onward to LHR would not have even been up for debate, as it is mandatory that the 777 landing ASAP after an engine failure.

So, again, it is not a matter of which plane can go further, it's just a matter of what planes are bound by what rules. The 777 can easily longer than 3 hours on a single engine (ETOPS-207), and Boeing is even pushing for extensions on ETOPS, allowing the 772LR and 773ER to fly up to 5.5 hours away from any divert airport....ETOPS-330.

Keep in mind.....after the BA 744 continued onto LHR, the crew and BA both came under severe scrutiny in the press and from the FAA.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

Of course, the planes CAN continue flying, but the crews SHOULDn´t do it.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3764 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 3):
The alternative is to get him fly a Qantas 747 from Los Angeles or San Francisco,

But if he lives in Canada, it is impossible to get him to LAX or SFO for the QF flight, because it is no 4 engined a/c that operates between LAX/SFO and Canada.

Carriers operating via Asia (e.g. JL/KE/CX/SQ etc.) sometimes offer competitive fares from Canada to Australia with a connection at NRT/ICN/HKG/SIN etc. Many flights on those routes use 747s and A340s.


User currently offlineERJ135 From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 679 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

Ok, if the guy can get to LAX,
Singapore Airlines A345 and A380 or 747, Air China 747 and A340, Air Tahiti Nui A340, Air Pacific 747, Qantas 747 and United 747 Maybe Air New Zealand 747 but watch the connecting aircraft and they will all go to the 777 eventually. Or if he feels like going via south America he can get both Lan and Aerolineas Argentinas with A340s.



I remember when the DC-3 was new!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11848 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3747 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 3):
The alternative is to get him fly a Qantas 747 from Los Angeles or San Francisco, that way he´ll get to fly in the four engines he wants, and experience the "Spirit of Australia" even before arriving "Down Under".

NZ have B744s operating LAX-AKL-MEL. NZ is usually always the cheapest to Australia from LAX/SFO/YVR, with PTVs, and real flat beds in business. NZs laid back service is always a fantastic service, and a real kiwi experience. Some people I know who live in Australia, USA and Canada have said that NZs laid back kiwi service is better then QFs Australian style service.


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