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Is The MD-11 Better Then The 777?  
User currently offlineNightFlier From United States of America, joined May 2004, 284 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10783 times:

I just saw a program on Discovery Wings that went over the history of MD company. At the end of the program the person doing the voice over for the program said that the MD-11 surpassed the brandnew 777 in many ways, such as passenger comfort,cargo capacity, and a few other things. I could not believe what I was hearing. Not that I don't like the MD-11 but I was always under the impression that the 777 was the jet of the future and was a much better airplane then the MD-11. Did that program make a mistake or is this true, and if it is why did Boeing stop making the MD-11 ?


Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10733 times:

The MD11 is better for cargo, so far. The Triple7 surpasses the MD11 in range and efficiency and is therefore better for the airlines..


Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
User currently offlineNightFlier From United States of America, joined May 2004, 284 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10698 times:

Thank U MD11LuxuryLinr, so the program was telling the truth about the cargo part. Smile. Maybe some else can help us with the other question?


Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
User currently offlineFlymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10654 times:

Please the 777 have more range and more fuel effiecient then the MD-11. Passenger Comfort. The 777 got to be better. Atleast the ones I been on. And the 777 is fly by computers every single little thing is controled by one of the two computers on board. The 777 is far superior airliner in Design. But the MD-11 is much better for Cargo. Even though the Lower Cargo hold of an 777 can hold as much cargo as an DC-8F


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineMd80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10613 times:

Had the program survived, the MD-11 would be holding it's own against the 777, probably beating it in some areas.

User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10566 times:

Agreeing with what was said above. The MD-11 is a better aircraft for pure freight hauling. The 777 is more geared toward hauling people around. When the triple 7 came online, it rendered the MD-11 obsolete in many ways...and I'm going so far as to say the 747 is becoming something of a dinosaur because the 777 is more efficient in many aspects as well. Had Boeing kept the MD-11 line open, I dare say the airline cargo industry would have seen many more examples of the trijet. Hell, perhaps even the USAF would have bought 60 KC-11s, to supplement the KC-10 fleet, instead of causing an issue with the KC-767 program. Just my two cents worth. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineMD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10524 times:

~"Had the program survived, the MD-11 would be holding it's own against the 777, probably beating it in some areas. "~

I definitely agree.. The thing that really pissed the airlines off and cancelled the orders was the MD11's inability to perform within the projected range. Had MDD designed a new wing, instead of using basically the DC10's wing, the airplane would have been a real keeper. Oh, well..



Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10473 times:

Why exactly is the MD-11 so much better at cargo than the T7?

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10466 times:
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I dont think so, I believe the triple 7 is highly efficent compared to the MD-11. But I would love to see as many MD-11's as they there are 777's.


Earned PPL June 26, 2007
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10448 times:

Had MDD designed a new wing, instead of using basically the DC10's wing, the airplane would have been a real keeper.

MD's strategy was to be first on the market, and beat the A340 and 777 to the big sales. This was a huge risk in the first place, and might have worked had they gone through with the re-winged, twin jet called the MD-12.. but somewhere along the way MD lost their balls. In the end, airlines dropped the MD-11 for the A340 and 777 (hell SQ went through both) and the MD people were suddenly holding BA stock.

The MD-11 was nothing special compared to the all-new counterparts. Think re-engined A330 versus 7E7 rather than 737NG versus A320. As for the MD-11's wing, the loading was off the charts wasn't it?

Had Boeing kept the MD-11 line open, I dare say the airline cargo industry would have seen many more examples of the trijet

I'd say the only way Boeing would have kept it was if Airbus had put the A330 freighter on the market around the year 2000, because cargo airlines probably would have balked at the outrageous price tag for the 777. A 777-200LRF would make a very attractive cargo hauler, if it didn't cost an arm, leg, spleen, and kidney.


User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10396 times:

From an airplane enthusiasts perspective the MD-11 is a much more unique and exciting plane both to look at and to fly aboard. i think the MD-11 is one of the most beautiful airliners ever built.

User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10335 times:

Well, I think the MD11 is a much sexier airplane than the 777, but, the 777 is a much better aircraft than the MD11.


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User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1140 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10332 times:

<< Why exactly is the MD-11 so much better at cargo than the T7? >>

Two main reasons: First, at this point in time a T7 is considerably more expensive than an MD11.

Second, assuming acquisition cost could be the same, the T7 would need a costly additional reinforcement of undercarriage, wings and fuselage, that and MD11 doesn't need.

Both will need the cargo door and the reinforced rollerbed cabin floor, though.


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User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10308 times:

One reason why ....... Its a Douglas. A real airplane.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineTrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 336 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10212 times:

The operating economics of the 777-200ER just killed the MD-11. The airplane as found a 2nd life as a freighter filling a niche just below the 747-200F, offering 100 ton freight capacity and great range with 3 engine operating costs that compare very favorably to the 742F.

Of the 200 MD-11's built, just about 1/2 of them are now, or are in the process of being converted to freighters.

Down the road I believe you will see the same dynamic happening with the 777-200 as Boeing decides to offer initially a production freighter of the airplane and down the road, a converted freighter.


User currently offlineEjazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 725 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10157 times:

Not sure I'm convinced that the MD11 carries more cargo than a B777-200. The B777-300 carries 30% more cargo than a B747-400, or they do here, so I'd think the 200 and MD11 are quite similiar in capacity.

Airlines such as United have already prodded Boeing into introducing a B777-200 Freighter because of the huge capacity and economics.



Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3015 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10146 times:

I've flown on both, and to tell you the truth I felt more comfortable in the MD-11. I really don't know why, since many people say the 777 is. But that's just my opinion.
Aeroflot777


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3672 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10072 times:
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The MD-11 does not carry more cargo in the lower cargo hold than the 777-200. Both can carry 18 LD3s or 6 pallets in the front and 14 LD3s or 4 pallets and 2 LD3s in the rear. In fact, the bulk cargo hold on the 777 is larger than the MD-11. 600 cu. ft. for the 777 versus 510 cu. ft. for the MD-11.

User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9831 times:

The MD-11 is the only airplane I have only flown in first class (sadly I have to confess I usually fly economy!). And there the MD-11 falls way short of the 747-400. So its certainly not the best pax-plane.

Freighter capability: Freight-haulers love the MD-11. I guess that also has to do with its clearly lower aquisition price. I can´t see why a future 777F shouldn´t be better than the MD-11F. Size is similar, economics better (once you forget about the buying price!). But unltil most MD-11s haven´t been converted and Airbus doesn´t show a sign to enter the competition Boeing doesn´t need a 777F.


User currently offlinePaxromana From Italy, joined Mar 2004, 36 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9705 times:

AZ is replacing 5 MD11 in fleet!!!
I dare welcome with a certain joy!!!


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3086 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9551 times:

Passenger Comfort is solely dependent on the airline and has noting to do with the airplane. The airlines configure the cabins and not the manufacturer. If someone wanted to put sleeper beds in a MD 11 there is noting stopping them.

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2969 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9454 times:

I'd take an MD-11 any day.
But it's mainly due to my passion for the three-holers.
It's really sad that it didn't sell more frames, but I guess that did both Airbus and Boeing some good.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9385 times:

Unfortunately the 777 is the only aircraft I have never flown  Sad

I have flown the MD-11 quite a number of times and it is one of the best aircraft! Quiet, comfortable etc. I too love 3 holers. Especially flying to Brazil over the Atlantic, it gives me more peace of mind.


User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 858 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

I've heard in the past that the MD-11, and I assume the DC10 was not a favorite a/c of pilots because of instability; the horizontal tail was designed too small and wasn't a favorite among pilots. Has anyone else heard this? If this is true, I would imagine that pilots favored the T7 over the MD-11 (although I agree with statements above that it is a beautiful a/c). I would also venture a guess that maintaining 2 engines is better than 3 for the MD-11 in terms of costs and reliability.


That's why we're here.
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9109 times:

I don´t think MD11 going to be a common passenger plane in the future, the triple-7 are going to be.
But as freighter I think MD11 will be along for a long time and I don´t think the triple-7 freighter going to be a big hit...


25 Md80fanatic : Of course when Boeing bought out MD, the writing was on the wall for the underdeveloped MD-11. I still don't see that much of an efficiency difference
26 LY4XELD : When you have two trees growing side by side one usually must die in order for the other to prosper. Sadly we can see which one Boeing chose to take t
27 Bmacleod : It is sad to see such a beautiful aircraft like the MD-11 eventually wind up as a freighter. I agree that had MDD been more radical in designing the M
28 Ejazz : From Md80fanatic; ""The MTOW is much higher for the MD-11 compared to the 777-200 that it was designed to compete against and it can fly that same wei
29 Alessandro : I think all 3-holer are to become extinct, so MD-11 was doomed because of that...
30 Post contains images Northwest717 : In terms of beauty, probably. But in terms of fuel efficiency and comfort, probably not. The world is going to be empty when those gorgeous birds leav
31 Post contains images Solnabo : Does MD-11 has the widest cabin among the 3-holers, or is it L-1011? Width of 777? Still think the DC-10/MD-11 have the biggest cockpit windows! Hell,
32 N328KF : I dunno, I think it would have been interesting if Boeing had only bought the McDonnell (defense assets) side of the company, which is what they were
33 Post contains images Solnabo : Boeing kept the MD/Globemaster cuz that military-craft is a hit, and all of the jetliners (717 is actually MD-95) went down the drain!! How sad!! My $
34 MD11Engineer : From a maintenance point of view, computerizing the whole airplane brings certain disadvantages, like increased software hiccups and other, not reprod
35 ConcordeBoy : Simple question really... Which has sold nearly 700 units and is still backordered to the brim by multiple airlines? Which is the patch-job relic of a
36 Post contains images Md80fanatic : From my perspective I see as many sources stating that no further orders were recieved once Boeing bought out MD as I see sources stating that no furt
37 MD11Engineer : Lufthansa had to INSIST that their existing contracts with Douglas would be honoured by Boeing. Boeing instead wanted to sell them 747-400 freighters.
38 Adriaticus : FedEx MD11F fleet comprises 30 birds. 29 additional MD10-30F integrate its MD family. In addition to those, there are 22 more DC10-10F's. __Ad.
39 MD11Engineer : Currently there are three ex-Alitalia MD-11sparked in storage at CGN. They have been bought by LH and are waiting to get converted into freighters. Ja
40 Bekol : So, it's just Boeing murdered the MD11s IMO.... I love this 3-holers!
41 Mbmbos : Did Boeing "murder" the MD-11 program or was it a mercy killing? Sales were weak. The whole program was jump-started by FedEx, and their explanation f
42 MD88Captain : I've flown the MD11 and MD88 (over 3500hrs). I've flown 2 Lockheed products and most of the Boeing jets. From this pilot's viewpoint I prefer Lockheed
43 Mbmbos : Did Boeing "murder" the MD-11 program or was it a mercy killing? Sales were weak. The whole program was jump-started by FedEx, and their explanation f
44 YEGspotter : MD88 Captain: Can you elaborate as to what it was about Lockheed products you liked?? and what it was about Boeing that you liked/disliked?? What are
45 Shankly : Well having flown on both the MD-11 and the 777 recently, from the pax point of view there really is not a lot in it. The MD's windows seemed bigger t
46 Whitehatter : The MD-11 was also powered by previous-generation powerplants, CF6 and PW engines. The 777 has more efficient, higher thrust GE90, Trent and PW4080 fa
47 Hamlet69 : " I assume UPS would have prefered to buy new planes instead of taking those from bancrupt Brazilian carrier VASP." Though UPS does have 3 frames that
48 AmericanAirFan : Well in the cargo aspect of all of this maybe this isn't a good reason between the MD-11 and the 777 but FedEx is made mostly of MD-11's and DC-10's a
49 Whitehatter : There are no cargo 777s as of yet. Nor has Boeing offered a cargo conversion, or actively promoted a new build 777F. It'll happen eventually, just not
50 ATA L1011 : RE: Salnabo The L1011 has the widest internal cabin of the 3 engined wideboys. L1011= 18ft 11inch internal width DC-10/MD-11= 18ft 9inch internal widt
51 MD11Engineer : Another advantage of the MD-11 compared to other airplanes is that the floor structure is strong enough for cargo operation without needing to be rein
52 MD11LuxuryLinr : ~"JAL and have PW4058 "~ Do you mean PW4460s?
53 Post contains images Undies737 : 777. 1 aircraft i've yet to fly on, a big fan of this flying technology marvel. i also really like the MD11, they look awsome & unique in it's own rig
54 BigB : From my perspective I see as many sources stating that no further orders were recieved once Boeing bought out MD as I see sources stating that no furt
55 Caribb : I like the large windows on the MD-11. I'd be curious to know if they are significantly smaller than the proposed supersized windows on the 7E7. Compa
56 Tristar100 : Yes. Cheers, Steve.
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