NightFlier From United States of America, joined May 2004, 284 posts, RR: 2 Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8556 times:
I just saw a program on Discovery Wings that went over the history of MD company. At the end of the program the person doing the voice over for the program said that the MD-11 surpassed the brandnew 777 in many ways, such as passenger comfort,cargo capacity, and a few other things. I could not believe what I was hearing. Not that I don't like the MD-11 but I was always under the impression that the 777 was the jet of the future and was a much better airplane then the MD-11. Did that program make a mistake or is this true, and if it is why did Boeing stop making the MD-11 ?
Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
Flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6328 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8427 times:
Please the 777 have more range and more fuel effiecient then the MD-11. Passenger Comfort. The 777 got to be better. Atleast the ones I been on. And the 777 is fly by computers every single little thing is controled by one of the two computers on board. The 777 is far superior airliner in Design. But the MD-11 is much better for Cargo. Even though the Lower Cargo hold of an 777 can hold as much cargo as an DC-8F
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
FlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 15 Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8339 times:
Agreeing with what was said above. The MD-11 is a better aircraft for pure freight hauling. The 777 is more geared toward hauling people around. When the triple 7 came online, it rendered the MD-11 obsolete in many ways...and I'm going so far as to say the 747 is becoming something of a dinosaur because the 777 is more efficient in many aspects as well. Had Boeing kept the MD-11 line open, I dare say the airline cargo industry would have seen many more examples of the trijet. Hell, perhaps even the USAF would have bought 60 KC-11s, to supplement the KC-10 fleet, instead of causing an issue with the KC-767 program. Just my two cents worth. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
MD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 16 Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8297 times:
~"Had the program survived, the MD-11 would be holding it's own against the 777, probably beating it in some areas. "~
I definitely agree.. The thing that really pissed the airlines off and cancelled the orders was the MD11's inability to perform within the projected range. Had MDD designed a new wing, instead of using basically the DC10's wing, the airplane would have been a real keeper. Oh, well..
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8221 times:
Had MDD designed a new wing, instead of using basically the DC10's wing, the airplane would have been a real keeper.
MD's strategy was to be first on the market, and beat the A340 and 777 to the big sales. This was a huge risk in the first place, and might have worked had they gone through with the re-winged, twin jet called the MD-12.. but somewhere along the way MD lost their balls. In the end, airlines dropped the MD-11 for the A340 and 777 (hell SQ went through both) and the MD people were suddenly holding BA stock.
The MD-11 was nothing special compared to the all-new counterparts. Think re-engined A330 versus 7E7 rather than 737NG versus A320. As for the MD-11's wing, the loading was off the charts wasn't it?
Had Boeing kept the MD-11 line open, I dare say the airline cargo industry would have seen many more examples of the trijet
I'd say the only way Boeing would have kept it was if Airbus had put the A330 freighter on the market around the year 2000, because cargo airlines probably would have balked at the outrageous price tag for the 777. A 777-200LRF would make a very attractive cargo hauler, if it didn't cost an arm, leg, spleen, and kidney.
TrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 327 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7985 times:
The operating economics of the 777-200ER just killed the MD-11. The airplane as found a 2nd life as a freighter filling a niche just below the 747-200F, offering 100 ton freight capacity and great range with 3 engine operating costs that compare very favorably to the 742F.
Of the 200 MD-11's built, just about 1/2 of them are now, or are in the process of being converted to freighters.
Down the road I believe you will see the same dynamic happening with the 777-200 as Boeing decides to offer initially a production freighter of the airplane and down the road, a converted freighter.
Ejazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 705 posts, RR: 35 Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7930 times:
Not sure I'm convinced that the MD11 carries more cargo than a B777-200. The B777-300 carries 30% more cargo than a B747-400, or they do here, so I'd think the 200 and MD11 are quite similiar in capacity.
Airlines such as United have already prodded Boeing into introducing a B777-200 Freighter because of the huge capacity and economics.
Ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3494 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7845 times:
The MD-11 does not carry more cargo in the lower cargo hold than the 777-200. Both can carry 18 LD3s or 6 pallets in the front and 14 LD3s or 4 pallets and 2 LD3s in the rear. In fact, the bulk cargo hold on the 777 is larger than the MD-11. 600 cu. ft. for the 777 versus 510 cu. ft. for the MD-11.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9710 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7604 times:
The MD-11 is the only airplane I have only flown in first class (sadly I have to confess I usually fly economy!). And there the MD-11 falls way short of the 747-400. So its certainly not the best pax-plane.
Freighter capability: Freight-haulers love the MD-11. I guess that also has to do with its clearly lower aquisition price. I can´t see why a future 777F shouldn´t be better than the MD-11F. Size is similar, economics better (once you forget about the buying price!). But unltil most MD-11s haven´t been converted and Airbus doesn´t show a sign to enter the competition Boeing doesn´t need a 777F.
Greasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3054 posts, RR: 22 Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7324 times:
Passenger Comfort is solely dependent on the airline and has noting to do with the airplane. The airlines configure the cabins and not the manufacturer. If someone wanted to put sleeper beds in a MD 11 there is noting stopping them.
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
NIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7158 times:
Unfortunately the 777 is the only aircraft I have never flown
I have flown the MD-11 quite a number of times and it is one of the best aircraft! Quiet, comfortable etc. I too love 3 holers. Especially flying to Brazil over the Atlantic, it gives me more peace of mind.
LY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 851 posts, RR: 16 Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6881 times:
I've heard in the past that the MD-11, and I assume the DC10 was not a favorite a/c of pilots because of instability; the horizontal tail was designed too small and wasn't a favorite among pilots. Has anyone else heard this? If this is true, I would imagine that pilots favored the T7 over the MD-11 (although I agree with statements above that it is a beautiful a/c). I would also venture a guess that maintaining 2 engines is better than 3 for the MD-11 in terms of costs and reliability.
Alessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6882 times:
I don´t think MD11 going to be a common passenger plane in the future, the triple-7 are going to be.
But as freighter I think MD11 will be along for a long time and I don´t think the triple-7 freighter going to be a big hit...
25 Md80fanatic: Of course when Boeing bought out MD, the writing was on the wall for the underdeveloped MD-11. I still don't see that much of an efficiency difference
26 LY4XELD: When you have two trees growing side by side one usually must die in order for the other to prosper. Sadly we can see which one Boeing chose to take t
27 Bmacleod: It is sad to see such a beautiful aircraft like the MD-11 eventually wind up as a freighter. I agree that had MDD been more radical in designing the M
28 Ejazz: From Md80fanatic; ""The MTOW is much higher for the MD-11 compared to the 777-200 that it was designed to compete against and it can fly that same wei
29 Alessandro: I think all 3-holer are to become extinct, so MD-11 was doomed because of that...
30 Northwest717: In terms of beauty, probably. But in terms of fuel efficiency and comfort, probably not. The world is going to be empty when those gorgeous birds leav
31 Solnabo: Does MD-11 has the widest cabin among the 3-holers, or is it L-1011? Width of 777? Still think the DC-10/MD-11 have the biggest cockpit windows! Hell,
32 N328KF: I dunno, I think it would have been interesting if Boeing had only bought the McDonnell (defense assets) side of the company, which is what they were
33 Solnabo: Boeing kept the MD/Globemaster cuz that military-craft is a hit, and all of the jetliners (717 is actually MD-95) went down the drain!! How sad!! My $
34 MD11Engineer: From a maintenance point of view, computerizing the whole airplane brings certain disadvantages, like increased software hiccups and other, not reprod
35 ConcordeBoy: Simple question really... Which has sold nearly 700 units and is still backordered to the brim by multiple airlines? Which is the patch-job relic of a
36 Md80fanatic: From my perspective I see as many sources stating that no further orders were recieved once Boeing bought out MD as I see sources stating that no furt
37 MD11Engineer: Lufthansa had to INSIST that their existing contracts with Douglas would be honoured by Boeing. Boeing instead wanted to sell them 747-400 freighters.
38 Adriaticus: FedEx MD11F fleet comprises 30 birds. 29 additional MD10-30F integrate its MD family. In addition to those, there are 22 more DC10-10F's. __Ad.
39 MD11Engineer: Currently there are three ex-Alitalia MD-11sparked in storage at CGN. They have been bought by LH and are waiting to get converted into freighters. Ja
40 Bekol: So, it's just Boeing murdered the MD11s IMO.... I love this 3-holers!
41 Mbmbos: Did Boeing "murder" the MD-11 program or was it a mercy killing? Sales were weak. The whole program was jump-started by FedEx, and their explanation f
42 MD88Captain: I've flown the MD11 and MD88 (over 3500hrs). I've flown 2 Lockheed products and most of the Boeing jets. From this pilot's viewpoint I prefer Lockheed
43 Mbmbos: Did Boeing "murder" the MD-11 program or was it a mercy killing? Sales were weak. The whole program was jump-started by FedEx, and their explanation f
44 YEGspotter: MD88 Captain: Can you elaborate as to what it was about Lockheed products you liked?? and what it was about Boeing that you liked/disliked?? What are
45 Shankly: Well having flown on both the MD-11 and the 777 recently, from the pax point of view there really is not a lot in it. The MD's windows seemed bigger t
46 Whitehatter: The MD-11 was also powered by previous-generation powerplants, CF6 and PW engines. The 777 has more efficient, higher thrust GE90, Trent and PW4080 fa
47 Hamlet69: " I assume UPS would have prefered to buy new planes instead of taking those from bancrupt Brazilian carrier VASP." Though UPS does have 3 frames that
48 AmericanAirFan: Well in the cargo aspect of all of this maybe this isn't a good reason between the MD-11 and the 777 but FedEx is made mostly of MD-11's and DC-10's a
49 Whitehatter: There are no cargo 777s as of yet. Nor has Boeing offered a cargo conversion, or actively promoted a new build 777F. It'll happen eventually, just not
50 ATA L1011: RE: Salnabo The L1011 has the widest internal cabin of the 3 engined wideboys. L1011= 18ft 11inch internal width DC-10/MD-11= 18ft 9inch internal widt
51 MD11Engineer: Another advantage of the MD-11 compared to other airplanes is that the floor structure is strong enough for cargo operation without needing to be rein