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LH Economy- There's "a" Better Way To Fly!  
User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

Hi Everybody!

In this thread I want to share my experience on my LH long haul-flight LH 779 from SIN to FRA. Firstly I want to point out that I don't want to bash LH. From what I read and hear LH has a very good reputation for its First and Business Class. I would like to share my experience on my flight on economy class with everybody on this page and would like to listen to experiences made by others.

I came back this morning from a 1 month trip to Sydney, Australia. My flights were the following:

1. SQ 25 FRA-SIN B744
2. SQ 221 SIN-SYD A380
3. SQ 222 SYD-SIN A380
4. LH 779 SIN-FRA B744 ( D-ABVE)

To make a long story short, I was deeply disappointed on what LH is offering on long haul Y.
The seats on the 747 were very old and worn out and some appeared to fall appart already. There was no PTV and the IFE was in my opinion also very old and did not offer a wide variety. I could chose between 30 radio channels, that's it. They played 2 movies and one documentary, which could be watch on the overhead TV's in two languages.
We only got a blanket, a pillow and a headset. There was no little bag with socks, no sleeping-cover ( You know what I mean- the thing for over the eyes- anyway what's the English word for it?)) and no toothbrush with toothpaste.

I definetly don't expect every airline to have such a amazing IFE-System with PTV and AVOD like SQ has on its A380 and B77W, but I thought LH would at least have something similar to BA, QF or to the one SQ has on its 744s.
Sorry to say but the LH IFE remembered me on the one LT had on its MD-11 in 1997 when I flew them to the US.

I also know that the IFE on the LH A333 and A346 is better according to airliners.net.

So why is LH abandoning the economy section on its flagship? Is it not worth to offer a good product to economy passengers? I know that business class is the money-maker, but why do other airlines offer a better product in economy them.

Right now I will try to avoid a LH 744 on my next long haul trip, because right now I think, that "There's A better way to fly".  Wink

Let the discussion begin.

Best Regards

Tom


Tom from Cologne
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17063 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7188 times:

And this is exactly why I dont fly LH anymore to LAX. (fly with BA now days)


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7099 times:

oh no, not again a LH-PTV thread... Sad

in a nutshell: it should be quite easy to inform oneself about the IFE offering on a particular airline before booking the flight... it is certainly true that LHs Y product leaves a lot to be desired even when not taking the IFE into account compared with other European legacy carriers (and even more so compared with Asian and Middle Eastern ones), but if you don't properly inform yourself before booking, the only one you have to blame is yourself. It's not like LH would claim on their homepage they had an state-of-the-art IFE in Y.... in fact, even with the new product on the 333 and 346 they have a degraded system in Y compared with C and are quite open about it. Management decision I guess.... LH targets mostly business customers who couldn't care less about the IFE system and those German tourist travellers who chose a German airline over anything else come what may....



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

I think the reason is the 744s will be phased out from 2010 onward - as soon as the 748i arrives.

LH is renovating the whole Airbus longhaul fleet, but they seem to see no need into investing into airplanes that will only remain in the fleet for two years.


Perhaps for someone expecting good IFE/AVOD it is not good to fly LHs 744s. Wait till 2010 or 2011 then you can fly them again.

You can still fly their renovated Airbus products and from 2010 the 748i. And by the way, not everyone needs such IFE/AVOD products; ever heard of books, musik and magazines?


Personally, as much as i would love to see LH to update their 744 fleet one again before being phased out, i think it shouldn't matter if a flight has AVOD or not. I would use it, too, but if there is none, i read or sleep...

We are in a changing world, most of the airlines worldwide are putting good IFE systems / AVOD into their longhaul planes, some of them do it faster, some slower, who cares? In five years there won't be threads like these...


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7027 times:

It has become well known that LH has been living on its reputation in the past decade, especially concerning its service in Economy class.

The truth is that LH's Y product sucks ! Even my friends working as F/A and Purser for LH say it.
LH is overrated in many ways and they Y product is well below most other European carriers.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6552 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6989 times:

The one time I flew LH in longhaul Y (FRA-DEN on 744) I thought the in flight service more than made up for the lack of good IFE. In fact, the experience I had on LH was at least as good as the experience I had on BA and AF, both of which offered PTV's on their respective aircraft. All that being said, it would be nice if LH showed the big Boeing's some more Y-class love until the 748's arrive.

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

SIN-FRA I wouldn't choose LH, too, even if I don't mind entertainment junk at all. If somebody would give me a.net for 16 hours, I even wouldn't need a blanket...

User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6955 times:

Flying is not only about IFE. As Tom mentioned he missed also the amenity bag other carriers provide. I've been to GRU with Lufthansa twice this year, one time from FRA, the other from MUC, and there were also no amenity bags on these flights. And of course no IFE on the B744 and the A343.
On earlier flights with TAM I got a bag with an eye-shade, toothbrush with toothpaste and a comb. On Iberia they only had some socks.
As with the IFE this is something to take into consideration when making a booking, but can be taken care of very easily on a passenger's own preferences.
The important aspects of flying are of course safety, timeliness, overall service and price. And I must say that on these criteria Lufthansa rates top. I was even thinking about writing them to thank the crew for an exceptional good service on the flight from GRU to MUC (LH505, 26-May).
Rob


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2970 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6955 times:

The most important thing one fails to understand is that different customers have different requirements. The IFE or rather the whole inflight product maybe the decisive factor for many. But there are people who do not care much about the IFE.

Speaking from my dads perspective who makes frequent trips to the USA from DOH, prefer Lufthansa over any other carrier simply because LH has earned the reputation of being the most reliable airline in terms of its operations. We as aviation enthusiasts would like to enjoy every aspect of our flight, but I have known passengers on long haul flights who sleep for the entire 12-13 hours rather than bothering about the food/IFE et al. teh business passengers just want the plane to leave and arrive on time.

LH'sY product maybe mediocre to the best as reported by many, but yet it is the MOST popular airline out of India and almost India's defacto national carrier to the USA.

IMO a person regular on A.net should be well versed about the flight he is traveling and should know the offerings before hand.

SIN - FRA has LH,SQ serving and I'm sure SQ's Y maybe better than LH's Y. Else there are many options via the Middle east (EK/EY/QR) on which airlines have some really good IFE and overall a good Y product.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6897 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 2):
but if you don't properly inform yourself before booking, the only one you have to blame is yourself.



Quoting Ojas (Reply 8):
IMO a person regular on A.net should be well versed about the flight he is traveling and should know the offerings before hand.

Hey Guys!

Calm down. I am not bashing LH. I booked myself on the flight in order to get to know their product. And now I just took a resumé. And I am not blaming myself. I just wanted to know why LH doesn't offer a good all in all product in J in comparison to other airlines.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 8):
Speaking from my dads perspective who makes frequent trips to the USA from DOH, prefer Lufthansa over any other carrier simply because LH has earned the reputation of being the most reliable airline in terms of its operations. We as aviation enthusiasts would like to enjoy every aspect of our flight, but I have known passengers on long haul flights who sleep for the entire 12-13 hours rather than bothering about the food/IFE et al. teh business passengers just want the plane to leave and arrive on time.

True for business and First, but in Economy it is quite harder to get decent sleep. And I also appreciated that the flight was on time.

Regards Tom



Tom from Cologne
User currently offlineLH498 From Germany, joined May 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6868 times:



Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
I think the reason is the 744s will be phased out from 2010 onward - as soon as the 748i arrives.

It has been posted in past threads that the 744 will not immediately be phased out once the 748i start to arrive. They will stay for quite a while, at least the newer ones; look at their youngest 744: D-ABTL is only 6 years old.
OTOH, they will get new Y-seats with PTVs together with the A343s.

As said before, their safety, reliability and very professional service compensate their lack of PTVs.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5385 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6810 times:



Quoting LH498 (Reply 10):

As said before, their safety, reliability and very professional service compensate their lack of PTVs.

 checkmark 

LH is arguably the best-run airline in the world.

They are punctual, efficient, and extraordinarily safe. All of that matters much more to me than whether I get an eye cover or how many movies are on the IFE.


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2970 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6766 times:



Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 9):
IMO a person regular on A.net should be well versed about the flight he is traveling and should know the offerings before hand.

Hey Guys!

Calm down. I am not bashing LH. I booked myself on the flight in order to get to know their product. And now I just took a resumé. And I am not blaming myself. I just wanted to know why LH doesn't offer a good all in all product in J in comparison to other airlines.

Don't get me wrong it was just a point I made.

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 9):
but in Economy it is quite harder to get decent sleep. And I also appreciated that the flight was on time.

Exactly, for some that may be the most important factor that is all.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

The LH Y product is absolutely fine. Clean planes, good service, free food and free drinks, even alcoholic ones, a pillow and a blanket. No weird extra charges for checking bags or other nonsense certain airlines came up with. I also really don't understand where to get idea from that there should be an amenity kid in economy. This said the LH economy product is not the top notch economy product but compared to many other airlines it is a good product.

User currently offlineCityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6710 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 4):
It has become well known that LH has been living on its reputation in the past decade, especially concerning its service in Economy class.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 4):
LH is overrated in many ways and they Y product is well below most other European carriers.

I would have said the same of one of their main competitors, BA  Wink


User currently offlinePlairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6634 times:

There is one very important thing and this is reputation, worldwide even people that never fly LH before if you ask for a security and top profesional service, 90 % answer Lufthansa, and yes i feel safty with LH and for me this is the most important thing! I feel safe and I feel that I fly with a company that will take care of me so for me: There is no better way to fly!

User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

There is no better way to fly? No, in fact, there are many ways:
AF, BA, OS, LX, not to speak of QR, SQ, or EK...

all in regards of amenities, comfort on boards AND friendliness (I'm not saying that LH FAs are generally unfriendly, but they are not the friendliest around either...).

Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 13):
I also really don't understand where to get idea from that there should be an amenity kid in economy.

Because many competitors give one?
I always appreciate ear plugs, a sleeping mask and a toothbrush (since toiletries need to go into the checked baggage due to all these liquid restrictions...). And YES, I do base my carrier decision upon the availibilty of PTVs and AVOD, since it really helps spending many hours on board...


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5767 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6494 times:



Quoting LH498 (Reply 10):
As said before, their safety, reliability and very professional service compensate their lack of PTVs.



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 11):
They are punctual, efficient, and extraordinarily safe.

You guys are acting like Lufthansa is the only safe airline in the world. We're not talking about 1980s Aeroflot here, gentlemen, we're talking about state of the art competitors.
KLM comes to mind- quite safe, and a wonderful economy product in my experience. No amenity kit, but BRILLIANT cabin crews, WONDERFUL IFE, and meals good enough to eat.

Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 13):
I also really don't understand where to get idea from that there should be an amenity kid in economy.

He's already told you, if you'd open your mind a bit:

Quoting TommyBP251b (Thread starter):
other airlines offer a better product in economy

If other carriers, that are perfectly safe and reasonably punctual (you can't tell me LH doesn't ever delay a flight for MX, and if they do it's an unsafe practice) offer BETTER service, then this guy has a VERY LEGITIMATE QUESTION.

The question being, as near as I can tell:
WHY DOES LUFTHANSA Y SUCK, compared to competitors?


User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6460 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 17):
KLM comes to mind- quite safe, and a wonderful economy product in my experience. No amenity kit, but BRILLIANT cabin crews, WONDERFUL IFE, and meals good enough to eat.

However, in regards of seats and IFE, it's a question whether you'll be travelling on an A332 or a B777 (wheras the 772 with 9 abreast seems to be ways more comfortable than the 77W with 10 abreast) or a 744 or MD11.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6435 times:

Guys, some of you are mixing everything !

We are not talking about LH safety reliability here ! the subject is net even about IFE or no IFE !
It is just about LH level of service in Y. That's all.
And YES ! , compared to many of its European competitors, LH Y product is far behind.

Quoting Plairbus (Reply 15):
There is one very important thing and this is reputation, worldwide even people that never fly LH before if you ask for a security and top professional service, 90 % answer Lufthansa

Precisely ! LH lives on its good reputation.
Many people will say LH is super-wonderful even if they actually never flown them, those same people will say AF or IB or BA is crap ... even if they actually never flown them either !

Beside all this, LH is a great reliable and efficient airline ... who desperately needs to upgrade its Y product !


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6395 times:



Quoting LH498 (Reply 10):
As said before, their safety, reliability and very professional service compensate their lack of PTVs.

That's what we are made to believe.

Its not better then AF, KLM, BA, SQ, CX, AA, JAL, ANA, EK also not in the perception of people from outside Germany (that want LH to be best & that really helps perception).

LH has a good grip on the home market (also on the local perception) & that allows them to be savy in economy.

 Wink


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5420 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6395 times:

I will also chime in with my opinion. I have flown many trips from the middle east to Canada in LH Y. It compares with what I experienced with AC and BA...which is to say, not especially nice.

Perhaps BA has improved and I know AC has a much nicer product with their new planes but LH is being left behind. Their much touted Recaro seats on the 330/340's are very uncomfortable. AVOD is basically standard equipment on most airlines, if not now, then it's in the process.

I have no complaints about the service or the personnel.

FRA is a superior european hub but that may not be reason enough to fly substandard Y.

LH is making money now but competition is only getting more fierce. Eventually, the little things the others offer may come to haunt them.



What the...?
User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6305 times:



Quoting PA101 (Reply 16):
And YES, I do base my carrier decision upon the availibilty of PTVs and AVOD, since it really helps spending many hours on board..



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
We are not talking about LH safety reliability here ! the subject is net even about IFE or no IFE !
It is just about LH level of service in Y. That's all.

You got it! That's all I wanted to outline.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
And YES ! , compared to many of its European competitors, LH Y product is far behind.

Thank you guys for understanding what was really behind starting this threat. Furthermore Thank you for threating me respectful and welcome on my respected user list.

Best Regards.

Tom



Tom from Cologne
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6278 times:



Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 7):
The important aspects of flying are of course safety, timeliness, overall service and price. And I must say that on these criteria Lufthansa rates top.

Totally agree. I consider those things much more important than IFE. I doubt that even 1% of Y class passengers chooses an airline based on their IFE system.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 8):
SIN - FRA has LH,SQ serving and I'm sure SQ's Y maybe better than LH's Y.

There have been a few recent threads referring to shabby SQ 744s with seats not working and torn carpets etc. While every airline has occasional problems with such things, I have always found LH aircraft, even the older ones, to be clean and in excellent condition. Their cabin crews are also among the best-trained and most professional I have encountered.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 8):
Else there are many options via the Middle east (EK/EY/QR) on which airlines have some really good IFE and overall a good Y product.



Quoting PA101 (Reply 16):
There is no better way to fly? No, in fact, there are many ways:
AF, BA, OS, LX, not to speak of QR, SQ, or EK...

Since this thread involves Y class, have you flown longhaul on EK 777s with their 10-abreast seating? I would take a LH 744 any day over a cramped 10-abreast 777. EK's service is also overrated and inconsistent in my opinion. Even their premium class products vary widely from one aircraft type to another (and on different models of the same basic type).

LH obviously has enough satisfied customers or they wouldn't be one of the world's most profitable airlines.


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6262 times:

For what its worth, I enjoy LH's long haul economy product. I don't need PTVs, I am perfectly contempt looking out the window and catching up on some reading. The service is more than adequate, the food is fine and they fly me where I need to go via one of Europe's best hubs.

A long time KLM/NWA frequent flyer, I've switched over to LH and AC for my Trans-Atlantic hops simply because I find both AC and LH offer me more flexibility. Mind you, NWA still has one of the best FFP in the sky (unless thats going to change with the DL deal).

The best thing I can say about LH is that they have never left me out in the cold. I've had to get rebooked 4 times in recent years (twice on one trip) due to weather and strike action in Germany and they did an amazing job getting me where I needed to go as quickly as possible.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
25 ZKEOJ : the items you mentioned are not restricted at all! oh, really? I wonder where that reputation comes from? I guess from poor service and a bad Y-produ
26 PA101 : Maybe not the single items - but the overall content of such a bag (including nail-clippers/scissors, the contacts fluid, usually more than 100 ml, t
27 Singapore_Air : Perhaps, but I think what this thread, and a plethora of other threads including those regaring LH's Y product, shows is that different customers hav
28 Qantasistheway : A lot of people mention the great service on LH, and I am German and I do like them on short hops, however from 2007 we had a bad experience that put
29 SDLSimme : I flew LH this winter in Y, ARN-FRA-ORD-FRA-ARN. I have previously flown to ORD with BA and KL, and found LH's product to be good. There was no amenit
30 DABZF : I love it how people blame the airline when they they are late or what ever... it's never their own fault... oh no... it's always that the airline did
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