LVZXV From Argentina, joined Mar 2004, 1899 posts, RR: 32 Posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1345 times:
A S I A ’ 0 9
Greetings and salutations!
I’m starting here what could go on to become a lengthy thread in which I would appreciate as much advice and feedback from those able to help me as possible:
I am planning my first serious trip to Asia next year (since Turkey hardly counts…) and all I really have is a faint outline for it and not really much of an idea of if it is a good idea or not. I require input on times of year, where to go, where to avoid (i.e. Serious tourist traps), how long for ideally, and of course, being an aviation forum, airlines that you do and do not recommend. Here goes:
LHR-ALA
-Air Astana OK?
-How long in Almaty?
-Almaty close to any other place of interest in Kazakhstan?
ALA-URC
-China Southern?
-How long in Urumqi?
-Urumqi a nice introduction to China?
URC-ICN
-Korean Air?
-How long in Seoul?
-Is Seoul expensive?
-Worth moving around S. Korea a bit?
ICN-PVG
-Asiana? China Eastern? Hainan?
-3 days OK in Shanghai?
-Shanghai significantly less polluted than Beijing?
PVG-HKG
-Cathay Pacific?
-5 days too much in Hong Kong?
-How expensive it is these days?
HKG-HAN
-Vietnam Airlines?
-What to do/how long in Hanoi?
-Dien Bien Phu or other parts of the North worth a visit?
-Vietnam expensive?
HAN-VTE
-Vietnam Airlines or Lao Airlines?
-Good route? Or better to fly to Luang Prabang?
-Once in Laos, worth staying in Vientiane or moving around?
VTE-PNH
-Vietnam Airlines or Lao?
-Again, Phnom Penh best landing point in Cambodia? Or something closer to Angkor Wat or Siem Reap?
PNH-SGN
-Vietnam Airlines?
-Always been intrigued by this city. Deceptively so?
-Side trips in the south worthwhile?
SGN-BWN
-Royal Brunei?
-Know so little about Brunei and so few people who have gone. Is it worth it? Expensive? How many days?
BWN-KUL
-Malaysian?
-Would like to see a bit of this city, though don’t know much else about Malaysia. All pointers welcome!
KUL-SIN
-JAL?
-I’d imagine Singapore to be a little pricey, and in my mind thought it would not be a bad finishing point to the trip.
SIN-LHR
-Why not—Singapore A380?
Like I said, the above itinerary I have drafted out of the depths of my ignorance and imagination. As I would be planning to start this trip in either July or August ’09, it is a bit soon to go checking fares on the respective airline websites so any of you who have flown these routes might have a better idea of ticket prices (or tips on how to lower them). As all flights are one-way, I’m quite tempted by the idea of trying as many different airlines as possible, but again, if this is a bad idea and some airlines offer “passes” I could reconsider.
Likewise, if certain routes are all the more spectacular along the ground, then I could also bear that in mind. Not much of an expert of distances or road conditions in East Asia, and ideally I would not like to be travelling for more than a total of 6 weeks.
I am seriously grateful for any help/advice I receive on this and hopefully by the time the thread closes I can have a pretty serious trip planned!
-Asiana? China Eastern? Hainan?
-3 days OK in Shanghai?
-Shanghai significantly less polluted than Beijing?
I think I would go Asiana. Don't know why, but I'd chose them. 3 days is OK for Shanghai. Lots to see but you can do the most important things in 3 days there. Never been to Beijing, but Shanghai can be pretty polluted but I have seen some clearer days as well.
-Cathay Pacific?
-5 days too much in Hong Kong?
-How expensive it is these days?
CX for sure! 5 days sounds good! SOOO much to do in Hong Kong. I really like this place and it is not too expensive. I always enjoy Hong Kong, great city.
-Asiana? China Eastern? Hainan?
-3 days OK in Shanghai?
-Shanghai significantly less polluted than Beijing?
3 days is fine for Shanghai, as long as you don't mind long days. There is lots to see very early in the mornings and late at night. The polution can make the city look spectacular early in the mornings. I will link to a couple of my Shanghai galleries over the weekend (they are offline at the moment)
PVG-HKG
-Cathay Pacific?
-5 days too much in Hong Kong?
-How expensive it is these days?
The route is an expensive one. Expect to pay €200-€300 for a return. Usual rules for a single; it won't just be half the price.
Actually, CX operate very few flights a week. The 16 daily flights on KA are a better bet, on either a 330 or 320. Still, they codeshare with CX of course, so you can book through either.
BNEFlyer From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1260 times:
Sounds like a great trip!
I leave for Vietnam tomorrow (SGN to HAN and a few cities in between!). Happy to let you know what they're like when I get back.
Never been to PNH but been to REP. Great town and country, lovely people.
If you want to go to Angkor Wat and are short on time then you'd need to fly straight to REP. If you have time, why not go into PNH then get to REP overland?
Just remember that Vietnam and Cambodia (and perhaps Laos) use US$ almost more than their respective currencies.
Haven't been to BWN but know that it's not the cheapest place in the region. It has one of the highest GDP's in the world thanks to oil production and a small population.
Not that it may be important, but Brunei is a dry country. Unlike other Islamic nations there is no alcohol whatsoever in Brunei.
I didn't like KUL that much. To me it was definitely Singapore's poorer cousin. Have you considered BKK? In my opinion that is an amazing city!
SIN is a fantastic city, and you're right, it would be a nice finising point to the trip. Most probably one of the cleanest, modern and westernised cities on your itinerary!
Hope that helps a bit. If you need anymore specific info on Singapore, REP or Vietnam i'm happy to help where I can!
Allrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1238 times:
Some thoughts:
Beijing is a much more interesting cultural experience than Shanghai, there is so much to see (and if you are up to it I thoroughly recommend the Jinshanling-Simitai walk on the Great Wall).
I've only done two transits of Seoul, one overnight. I quite liked the city and had a lot of fun at the Dongdaemun markets late at night, just wandering around. See the Korean National Tourist Organisation website for more info. Their brochures are very detailed.
Singapore is a very modern and convenient city with good food. It's good for place for a mental break from "Asianess", though I find it a bit artificial and soulless in comparison to other parts of Asia.
Kuala Lumpur is more chaotic than Singapore, but if you are prepared to rough it a bit at hawker stalls then the food is better (I claim Malaysian food is the best in SE Asia, but then I'm biased) and the modern architecture spectacular. You can get surprisingly cheap 5 star accommodation in KL. If you go, make certain you visit Melaka and try some nonya cuisine.
I agree with an earlier poster about Bangkok and Thailand. There is so much to see!
Hong Kong is another place that's good for a "western" break while still retaining its own culture. There a surprising amount to do, but 5 days is plenty.
My favourite country in Asia is Japan - it's probably much cheaper than you think and there are an infinite number of things to see (and buy).
You might find my travel blogs and photos a useful resource:
-Air Astana OK?
-How long in Almaty?
-Almaty close to any other place of interest in Kazakhstan?
You could take an internal flight with Air Astana on most of their fleet, I think they operate everything between Almaty and Astana, and then there is SCAT who fly Yak42D and An24's internally and to other cities in neighbouring countries; Dushanbe (+Tajikistan as a whole) is supposed to be amazing, but really you'd need a week at least to see it.
LVZXV From Argentina, joined Mar 2004, 1899 posts, RR: 32 Reply 8, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1151 times:
OK, I see there is progress!
Quoting Swiftski (Reply 4): The route is an expensive one. Expect to pay €200-€300 for a return. Usual rules for a single; it won't just be half the price.
Point taken, but return trips I think would slow me down quite a lot. And plus, supposing a single is 60% of the return fare (assuming it's not in Y fare a single in this can exceed certain return ones), I am still paying 40% less than a round trip, no?
Quoting Swiftski (Reply 4): 5 days is a good amount of time in HKG.
OK.
Quoting Swiftski (Reply 4): Actually, CX operate very few flights a week. The 16 daily flights on KA are a better bet, on either a 330 or 320. Still, they codeshare with CX of course, so you can book through either.
I noticed this on the CX website. I would love to try the CX product, but if my dates really do not end-up matching, I'd have no problem flying on Dragonair.
Quoting Swiftski (Reply 4): As with PVG, I'll post some pics over the weekend if you wish.
Would very much appreciate that, whenever you have the time.
Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 5): I leave for Vietnam tomorrow (SGN to HAN and a few cities in between!). Happy to let you know what they're like when I get back.
That would be great!
Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 5): Haven't been to BWN but know that it's not the cheapest place in the region. It has one of the highest GDP's in the world thanks to oil production and a small population.
Not that it may be important, but Brunei is a dry country. Unlike other Islamic nations there is no alcohol whatsoever in Brunei.
That much I imagined, but I was thinking of maybe 3-4 days in the country. No idea when I would next be travelling out to SE Asia, so while I'm there...
Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 5): I didn't like KUL that much. To me it was definitely Singapore's poorer cousin. Have you considered BKK? In my opinion that is an amazing city!
Good to know. BKK--as with Thailand in general--I was initially trying to avoid as it sounds like too much of a tourist trap, but if it is really worth visiting then I may reconsider.
Quoting Allrite (Reply 6): Beijing is a much more interesting cultural experience than Shanghai, there is so much to see (and if you are up to it I thoroughly recommend the Jinshanling-Simitai walk on the Great Wall).
Again, I'll take note of this. Would you recommend Beijing over Shanghai or in addition to?
Quoting Allrite (Reply 6): My favourite country in Asia is Japan - it's probably much cheaper than you think and there are an infinite number of things to see (and buy).
Japan definitely intrigues me, but maybe to the point of doing it in an entirely separate trip or combined with Mongolia. All of Asia is new to me and thus I don't think I should visit all of it in one fell swoop.
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 7): You could take an internal flight with Air Astana on most of their fleet, I think they operate everything between Almaty and Astana, and then there is SCAT who fly Yak42D and An24's internally and to other cities in neighbouring countries; Dushanbe (+Tajikistan as a whole) is supposed to be amazing, but really you'd need a week at least to see it.
Astana I may consider (to compare and contrast to Almaty, since I hear they are very different), but the neighbouring CIS republics I would prefer to visit in a separate trip.
Once again, thank you all very much for your help!
On an aviation note, can anyone vouch for Vietnam Airlines and Lao Airlines being OK/recommendable/best avoided?
Allrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1134 times:
Quoting LVZXV (Reply 8): Good to know. BKK--as with Thailand in general--I was initially trying to avoid as it sounds like too much of a tourist trap, but if it is really worth visiting then I may reconsider.
I have limited experience with Thailand, but I think the tourist trap experience is up to you. If you want to hang out with all the western tourists you can, but you also have the choice to experience local life if you want. I generally hate over touristed areas and guided tours but we enjoyed those we did in BKK as well as just wandering around through temples and other locations by ourselves. And I must recommend the Mahachai Shortline.
Quoting LVZXV (Reply 8): Again, I'll take note of this. Would you recommend Beijing over Shanghai or in addition to?
I found Shanghai had few genuine sights (would have liked to visit nearby Suzhou and see the gardens, however), but that it was a reasonably "comfortable" city by western standards and the skyline is quite spectacular at night. This may not be a factor for you - but when we got to Shanghai we were a bit Chinaed out. It can be a frustrating place to get around independently - but you might encounter this in Central Asia anyway.
Beijing has probably improved even further with the Olympics for easy western access, but it has a lot of really worthwhile sights - the types of sights you won't see elsewhere in the world. We had four days there and it wasn't enough. You don't need to join tours either, though you may want to hire a driver to take you to a more distant part of the Great Wall.
-Air Astana OK?
-How long in Almaty?
-Almaty close to any other place of interest in Kazakhstan?
Almaty is really nice, but quite expensive. Go to the Kyrgyz Republic (not Kyrgyzstan as everyone calls it), which is an hour away from Almaty. Relly nice there, and cheap.
CZ on this route are a rip-off, but has no competitors. Flying is the best way between the two cities, unless you like the train. Urumqi is ok - spend a few days in Turpan (3 hours away). Lots of other places to explore in Xinjiang.
-Asiana? China Eastern? Hainan?
-3 days OK in Shanghai?
-Shanghai significantly less polluted than Beijing?
I flew PUS-PVG last year (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/116581/). The flight was excellent. Asiana are really good. I imagine the ICN-PVG flights are similar to PUS-PVG except for tha aircraft type (larger on the ICN leg). Shanghai is less polluted than BJ, but BJ has so much more to do there (a week is great for BJ, 2/3 days for SH). Lots of other interesting places to see on the way. XIan, Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Qingdao, 3 Gorges etc).
-Cathay Pacific?
-5 days too much in Hong Kong?
-How expensive it is these days?
It's cheaper to fly into Shenzhen (SZX) than HKG. SZX is connected with downtown Hong Kong by bus and ferry. There are far more flights on the SHA-SZX route than PVG-HKG. If you go to HK, spend a couple of nights on Lantau Island (try the Silvermine Bay Hotel). CHeaper than staying in central HK, but with good transport links to the city. HK isn;t too expensive, but is more than China.
Angkor Wat is AMAZING. Phom Penh is a really nice city.
-Royal Brunei?
-Know so little about Brunei and so few people who have gone. Is it worth it? Expensive? How many days?
Brunei itself is a bit boring. If you do go, book yourself onto a tour iorganised by the tourist office. They had some quite good day trips into the jungle etc. You should extend ur trip into Malaysian Borneo seeing as you'd almost be there.
KL is a nice city, very modern, not too expensive. Singapore is sinilar, but perhaps too ordered and well planned - it's nice if you find the rest of Asia too hectic though. SIA, MAS and JAL all do very good value o/e premium fares. MAS has the best lounge in KL, but it's always nice to say that you've bought a full fare First class ticket (about GBP 100) on Singapore Airlines! JAL is quite a cool choice though. Service on the route is very limited though as the flight is often barely 30 minutes.
Instead of going URC-ICN-PVG or PEK, perhaps it'd be cheaper (at least from the visa perspective as you'll need a double entry CHinese visa), you could do URC-PEK-SHA/PVG-ICN-HKG. Good luck!
NorthstarBoy From United States, joined Jun 2005, 828 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1049 times:
Sounds like an amazing trip, the only suggestion i'd make is, unless you're planning to get a multiple entry visa for China, I'd go ALA-URC-PVG then Icn, otherwise you might be denied entry trying to get back into China, as most visas only allow for a single entry. You'll also want to check the visa requirements for Vietnam and Cambodia, other than that, enjoy your trip.
I'll fly on any airline once, the kind of service i get during that one experience determines whether or not i'll return
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