SXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2424 posts, RR: 22 Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12037 times:
I have thought about this for some time, and I figured there are probably some airlines that will either never order another Airbus a/c or another Boeing a/c again. I figured I would make a small list of airlines that this probably applies to, I would like to know your own opinons as well as other airlines to be added.
I am sure there is more to add to this list..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11878 times:
I would never say never. CO could very well order the NG A320 if they fit their operation better than the 737RS. I don't see Airbus widebodies in CO's future, but as for AA, there very well might be. 1/2 of AA's fleet is non-Boeing product (since you can't count MD80s as Boeings when AA ordered them from MD years before).
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11795 times:
Supposedly devout followers of one company have changed plans before. I think it's foolhardy to predict that any given airline will forever resist the tempation of choice.
Lufthansa was powerfully Boeing, a launch customer, then ardently Airbus, yet they've now gone and ordered 748s, too.
CO did have an order for A340s at one time before executive winds changed. Who's to say they won't change again?
Even in the midst of their one-model doctrine, WN has operated 2 different types before, 727 and 737. Rumor are that they still look at the 100-seat market, which would be a major change for them, but seems they've made a number of major shifts in doctrine.
And then the USAir Force ordering "Northrup"/EADS tankers! I know, still not resolved, but someone got as far as placing an order.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11497 times:
With the exception of very specialized budget Airlines like Southwest whose whole business model relies on a single type I think that it is stupid for a large airline, especial international carriers with multipe types to rely on one manufacturer.
Therefore I would "never say never" in cases like you quote. What if in future one of the manufacturers indeed offers a far more superior product than the other in a certain class? Its not the case today, but with the large scale changes to be happening in the future that could happen.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40034 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11271 times:
I know for sure that no airline will buy any more new McDonnell Douglas aircraft again.
I know for sure that LOT Polish Airlines will not order any more Ilyushin or Tupolev aircraft again. Same for Vietnam Airlines.
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3926 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11227 times:
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 9): Aren't they doing very well with UA?I am really surprised to know that.
I think the point being made was that UA were very loyal Boeing customers. IIRC United has its roots as part of Boeing too. If UA could order Airbus anyone could, very soon there will be no more 737 at UA.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
Brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11140 times:
I don't believe that WS will ever order Airbus nor will WN. Aloha will not ever order any mainline aircraft. Highly doubtful AA will order Airbus same goes for CO and DL. All this is guessing and I am a horrible guesser.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11109 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3): but as for AA, there very well might be. 1/2 of AA's fleet is non-Boeing product (since you can't count MD80s as Boeings when AA ordered them from MD years before).
True, although I think AA's actions today are fare more reflective of potential future actions than decisions made 20 years ago. True, half of AA's fleet are McDonnell Douglas MD80s, but today, in 2008, AA is actively replacing those MD80s with ... Boeing 737s.
I suppose anything is possible, but I certainly would say that the chances of AA ordering an Airbus product in the future - especially widebodies - is small. AA has already placed one of the largest orders to date for the 787, and I doubt they're done with that frame yet. AA has committed to the 787 in a big way, and I suspect that is going to be their widebody frame of the future - ultimately replacing their 767s and eventually also probably the 777s.
As for narrowbodies, AA is making a huge (70-frame) investment in NG 737s because they desperately want to get out from under the weight of the MD80's fuel inefficiency. That is a short- to mid-term solution, however, and within the next 10-20 years, AA will likely move to the next-generation narrowbody platform that is being discussed by Boeing and Airbus. This may represent an opportunity/opening for Airbus, but even there, assuming Boeing can stay competitive on price, capability, efficiency and delivery schedule with Airbus in their next-generation narrowbody ("narrowbody 787") offering, I don't realistically see AA going Airbus.
Pohakuloa From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10180 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 6): Airlines cannot afford to be sentimental when a real, viable and superior alternative is present. They will choose what makes the better economic case for them, all things being equal.
Absolutely. The only point I can make is HA as they are the only ones I have seen for sure to comment on. HA used to be a MD/DC aircraft user for years. They went boeing 717 which is essentially an MD aircraft with a pretty badging on it. The 763's made sense because they were the right aircraft for the job at the right time. And now they have a huge A332/A350 order. Not too many people saw that one coming.
RDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1534 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9850 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 7): With the exception of very specialized budget Airlines like Southwest whose whole business model relies on a single type I think that it is stupid for a large airline
Southwest is the largest domestic carrier in the US. I don't know what qualifies as big for you, but WN is pretty damn big...
Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 12): I think the point being made was that UA were very loyal Boeing customers. IIRC United has its roots as part of Boeing too. If UA could order Airbus anyone could, very soon there will be no more 737 at UA.
UA was the launch customer for both the 767 and 777. However, I believe now UA has one of the largest A320 fleets in the World. I think they're third IIRC. Truthfully, I really like UA's fleet makeup of A320's and Boeing W/B's. I never really liked their 733/735's.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9693 times:
AA, CO, and DL all signed long-term agreements with Boeing back in the late 90s, giving them very good pricing terms, with the ability to get production slots on somewhat short notice.
Remember that Boeing was supposedly booked on 737 production for the next several years, yet AA is getting 70+ 737-800s over the next 2 years.
Until the agreements come close to expiration, don't expect any of these 3 carriers to look at Airbus for widebody or larger narrowbody aircraft.
Now, I could see AA ordering larger Embrear or Canadair jets to fill in the gap left by the retirement of the F100 fleet, but that's due to the fact that neither Boeing nor Airbus currently offer a plane in the 90-110 seat range that makes sense on short-haul routes.
Sparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9480 times:
United wanted an aircraft that would operate from Denver nonstop to any US destination.The 737-400 would not do this and Boeing would not upgrade the 737.The were selling all the 300s and 400s that they could build.The A320 was availible and could do the job so United bought them.Boeing after loosing this order,decided to build the 737NG.Had they built this airplane for delivery in the 1994-95 time period,United would not have bought the Airbus product.